New Study Finds No Link Between Gaming And Sexist Attitudes.
56 replies, posted
[QUOTE]A few days ago a German longitudinal study was published that explored the connection between gaming and sexist attitudes. The results broadly show that playing videogames doesn’t make people sexist.
The study was based around cultivation theory, which posits that long-term exposure to media content can affect our perception of the world around us.
Source:
[url]http://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2015/04/10/new-study-finds-no-link-between-gaming-and-sexist-attitudes/?hc_location=ufi[/url]
[QUOTE]Controlling for age and education, it was found that sexist attitudes - measured with a brief scale assessing beliefs about gender roles in society - were not related to the amount of daily video game use or preference for specific genres for both female and male players.
Study:
[url]http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/cyber.2014.0492[/url][/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
The study is false. Science is just a social construct. This is the patriarchy's doing.
Was anyone really complaining that sexism in games was seeping out into society and making people sexist? The complaints were the inverse, that sexist attitudes present in society were appearing in games.
The "games make people violent" thing was bogus for the same reason. If people want to criticize violent games for continuing to promote violence, okay, but the issue was that people claimed it [i]made[/i] people violent and the science simply didn't back it up.
Congratulations! What sensible people knew for a long time has been scientifically proven!
the sexist attitude was there before gaming. gaming just gave people an anonymous outlet to be cunts
This study was conducted by misogynistic men and womyn who haven't embraced their inner feminism trying to advance the patriarchy and should not be trusted.
/s
I'd like to imagine that somewhere Anita is reading this and having an aneurysm.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;47534867]Was anyone really complaining that sexism in games was seeping out into society and making people sexist? The complaints were the inverse, that sexist attitudes present in society were appearing in games.
The "games make people violent" thing was bogus for the same reason. If people want to criticize violent games for continuing to promote violence, okay, but the issue was that people claimed it [i]made[/i] people violent and the science simply didn't back it up.[/QUOTE]
People like Anita have made their careers based on calling out sexist attitudes in games, saying that it is both prevalent in it, the industry, and in the people that the games have been marketed to, that a feedback loop has occured and the media is now influencing the culture. This has always been her overall argument in her kickstarter series, and most of her earlier work on wider media.
Not only that but i've seen a large number of people complain that games have breed a dudebro atmosphere which is just ridiculous as nerds played games to escape the future dudebros.
I've had arguments over this exact subject, "Do games cause sexism at an internalized level" and been told that yes, flat out it does by some pretty regular and ordinary people here. Yes, it is an actual argument and yes it is and always has been ridiculous.
[QUOTE=Forumaster;47534883]I'd like to imagine that somewhere Anita is reading this and having an aneurysm.[/QUOTE]
Can't read a study when you only see money
I really feel sorry for the people who didn't already know this, sadly a lot of people don't
[QUOTE=Zeke129;47534867]Was anyone really complaining that sexism in games was seeping out into society and making people sexist? The complaints were the inverse, that sexist attitudes present in society were appearing in games.
The "games make people violent" thing was bogus for the same reason. If people want to criticize violent games for continuing to promote violence, okay, but the issue was that people claimed it [i]made[/i] people violent and the science simply didn't back it up.[/QUOTE]
This is true, but you know there's going to be someone knee-jerking and saying the study is shit or something, even though the points they usually argue about are the opposite problem.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;47534867]Was anyone really complaining that sexism in games was seeping out into society and making people sexist? The complaints were the inverse, that sexist attitudes present in society were appearing in games.
The "games make people violent" thing was bogus for the same reason. If people want to criticize violent games for continuing to promote violence, okay, but the issue was that people claimed it [i]made[/i] people violent and the science simply didn't back it up.[/QUOTE]
If the game doesn't cause violence/sexism, then how is promoting it going to have any effect?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47534892]People like Anita have made their careers based on calling out sexist attitudes in games, saying that it is both prevalent in it, the industry, and in the people that the games have been marketed to, that a feedback loop has occured and the media is now influencing the culture. This has always been her overall argument in her kickstarter series, and most of her earlier work on wider media.
Not only that but i've seen a large number of people complain that games have breed a dudebro atmosphere which is just ridiculous as nerds played games to escape the future dudebros.
I've had arguments over this exact subject, "Do games cause sexism at an internalized level" and been told that yes, flat out it does by some pretty regular and ordinary people here. Yes, it is an actual argument and yes it is and always has been ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
The idea isn't that games are some kind of special evil society ruining factor, it's just that they aren't exempt from the sexism that's prevalent in pretty much all kinds of media, which is something they ideally [I]should be[/I], like everything else.
Sexism being the norm doesn't mean that it's wrong to criticize one or another medium for being sexist.
That said, I really don't endorse Sarkeesian since I find both her person repulsive and her arguments often flawed, but at this point I find it kinda unfair to consider her leader of feminism in gaming when that's a position she mostly conquered through being controversial and through negative publicity.
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;47534877]I'm not really sure why such study was needed in the first place, really. Do some people really think playing games and being sexist are things that go hand to hand or something?[/QUOTE]
I can think of a [i]couple[/i] of folks making a [i]slight[/i] amount of money saying exactly this on a regular basis
[QUOTE=Zeke129;47534867]Was anyone really complaining that sexism in games was seeping out into society and making people sexist? The complaints were the inverse, that sexist attitudes present in society were appearing in games.
The "games make people violent" thing was bogus for the same reason. If people want to criticize violent games for continuing to promote violence, okay, but the issue was that people claimed it [i]made[/i] people violent and the science simply didn't back it up.[/QUOTE]
They were weirdly making the claim. I shrugged it off initially, but there folks who believe in it fully.
[quote]In other words, viewing media that frames women as objects or sexual playthings, profoundly impacts how real life women are perceived and treated in the world around us. And that is all without even taking into account how video games allow for the more participatory form of objectification that we’ve been discussing in this episode.
Compounding the problem is the widespread belief that, despite all the evidence, exposure to media has no real world impact. While it may be comforting to think we all have a personal force field protecting us from outside influences, this is simply not the case. Scholars sometimes refer to this type of denial as the “third person effect”, which is the tendency for people to believe that they are personally immune to media’s effects even if others may be influenced or manipulated. Paradoxically and somewhat ironically, those who most strongly believe that media is just harmless entertainment are also the ones most likely to uncritically internalize harmful media messages.[/quote]
[url]https://archive.today/Lx1WZ#selection-1151.0-1161.92[/url]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47534892]People like Anita have made their careers based on calling out sexist attitudes in games, saying that it is both prevalent in it, the industry, and in the people that the games have been marketed to, that a feedback loop has occured and the media is now influencing the culture. This has always been her overall argument in her kickstarter series, and most of her earlier work on wider media.
Not only that but i've seen a large number of people complain that games have breed a dudebro atmosphere which is just ridiculous as nerds played games to escape the future dudebros.
I've had arguments over this exact subject, "Do games cause sexism at an internalized level" and been told that yes, flat out it does by some pretty regular and ordinary people here. Yes, it is an actual argument and yes it is and always has been ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
I have luckily never met that type of feminist and hopefully never will, but if I do she better get ready for a 10 page essay on why she's wrong
Every single form of media has always been criticised for causing violence/sexism/racism/etc, and its always proved to be wrong. Every, single, time.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;47534867]Was anyone really complaining that sexism in games was seeping out into society and making people sexist? The complaints were the inverse, that sexist attitudes present in society were appearing in games.
The "games make people violent" thing was bogus for the same reason. If people want to criticize violent games for continuing to promote violence, okay, but the issue was that people claimed it [i]made[/i] people violent and the science simply didn't back it up.[/QUOTE]
yes, IE anita sarkeesian and plenty of senators have vilified video games for the bad attitudes of the worst minority of the playerbase
as a quant scholar i'm curious to see how they operationalized their study due to this component:
[quote]Those two important points aside, as the study was conducted in Germany it’s unclear how applicable these findings would be to other countries. [B]The study also took a very broad view of videogames and didn’t specifically target games with sexualized content.[/B]
[B]
That said the fact the study took such a general view helps to appraise the medium of gaming as a whole. [/B]Especially as there are those that have been saying that gaming itself is somehow ethically and morally bankrupt as a medium, the results from this study (in Germany at least) don’t back that up.[/quote]
as with tons of studies of videogames out there plenty tend to aggregate games that we'd consider "hardcore" and "casual" styles of games. the article opens up with extremely targeted questions about oversexualized women in fighting games and damsels in distress in mario, but then goes on to talk about an aggregated view that may or may not include games like candy crush or temple runner or whatever. unfortunately the study itself is behind a paywall so i can't figure out how they set up their measures and evaluate whether or not they appear to be valid measures of what they're trying to determine, or rather what the publicized perception of the article is targeted at.
looking at gaming as a whole is fine, but it sort of misses the point of most game focused criticism, that titles and work environments in the AAA are partially hostile towards women.
i should clarify here before mouths foam over that i don't think that the gaming industry is any more sexist or any less sexist than the standard population. but to be completely honest that's not even really that difficult of a mark to hit given extraordinarily common occurrences of sexual harassment in the workplace the world over, so.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;47534867]Was anyone really complaining that sexism in games was seeping out into society and making people sexist? [/QUOTE]
Well, there have been [url=http://vhil.stanford.edu/pubs/2013/fox-chb-sexualized-virtual-selves.pdf]previous studies[/url] showing tangible real-world effects on players from participation in games. Maybe not 'seeping out into society', but suggesting a causal link. Now apparently this new study completely invalidates them because it fits our preconceptions or something.
also by targeting such a generalized view the study is less experimentally focused (ie do playing games that feature sexist tropes have an effect on the gamer) and more survey based which focuses less on the relationship of the GAME -> GAMER and more of the GAMER -> GAME
I've never interpreted the ideas that media can promote violence/ sexism as "playing a game/ watching a film will make me hate women" like a lot of people seem to. I've always assumed what was meant by that was "playing a game/ watching a film can normalise sexism".
As in, if we portray women as nothing but feeble, pretty things for men to save, men aren't going to actually go out and think women are worthless, but the idea that women aren't as capable of protecting themselves will continue to exist and resist being challenged more.
A film where a bunch of gay characters are constantly told to fuck off or whatever isn't going to make the viewers hate gay people, but it could normalise the idea that you can be a dick to gay people as long as "lol its just jokes m8".
Obviously this effect doesn't make sense if the person consuming the media doesn't already have notions like this, only if they already think group x is y, but instead it just makes them think "no what i do is fine lol". But that's just how I've always interpreted the concern about media.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47534892]People like Anita have made their careers based on calling out sexist attitudes in games, saying that it is both prevalent in it, the industry, and in the people that the games have been marketed to, that a feedback loop has occured and the media is now influencing the culture. This has always been her overall argument in her kickstarter series, and most of her earlier work on wider media.
Not only that but i've seen a large number of people complain that games have breed a dudebro atmosphere which is just ridiculous as nerds played games to escape the future dudebros.
I've had arguments over this exact subject, "Do games cause sexism at an internalized level" and been told that yes, flat out it does by some pretty regular and ordinary people here. Yes, it is an actual argument and yes it is and always has been ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
I always hated that "games teach kids *bad habit*!" mentality that people have. I mean, how about [I]parents[/I] teach their kids something every now and then, eh?
Spoiler Alert: It's happening to both women and men.
Soon the sex wars will begin, and it won't be nearly as great as the name suggests.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;47535518]I've never interpreted the ideas that media can promote violence/ sexism as "playing a game/ watching a film will make me hate women" like a lot of people seem to. I've always assumed what was meant by that was "playing a game/ watching a film can normalise sexism".[/QUOTE]
Yeah it's kind of backwards how America kept targeting things and saying they cause violence when violence is all over TV and movies.
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;47535703]I always hated that "games teach kids *bad habit*!" mentality that people have. I mean, how about [I]parents[/I] teach their kids something every now and then, eh?[/QUOTE]
It used to be common practice during the 19th century to dope children to get them to sit down and shut up. Then it was television now video games.
As for bad habits? That does defend on the parents. Let say a persons watch world wrestling federation on TV and there child is there with them. When you cheer at a power driver, the child will do it to mimick the parent, or gain approval. Which may carry out into real life. The parent does t have to be in the room. A child will mimick what on the TV. I did when I was child and seen a sketch I thought was funny. Next day, I did it in front of them. No one laughed.
As for video games? I guess pay attention what you get them and all things in moderation. I used to play the game ever scrolls morrow wind. I used to for fun sneak up on the guards and hit them over the head with the black jack. This is when I couldn't go anywhere due to being on call. So it would be me doing this with most of my free time and for weeks on end.
One day, I went out to buy so e groceries and seen a police officer hired to guard the store.
I ended wondering how many bonus points I would get to my sneak skill if I went behind him and took him out.
I caught my self feeling this and of course I didn't do it. This was when I was in my mid twenties and reduced my time playing. Imagine what a child would do if they spent all there time on a simliar game.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47534892]People like Anita have made their careers based on calling out sexist attitudes in games, saying that it is both prevalent in it, the industry, and in the people that the games have been marketed to, that a feedback loop has occured and the media is now influencing the culture. This has always been her overall argument in her kickstarter series, and most of her earlier work on wider media.[/QUOTE]
Which is completely different from saying that it creates sexism where none existed before.
Saying that sexist things in media reflects sexism in culture is a completely reasonable assertion and Sarkeesian doesn't claim that sexism would decrease or go away if video games weren't sexist, nor does she attempt to claim that her videos are rigorous scientific studies.
I wonder why they're considered academic materials then?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47537202]I wonder why they're considered academic materials then?[/QUOTE]
I didn't realize academia was comprised solely of science
[quote] work environments in the AAA are partially hostile towards women. [/quote]
You keep saying this, and it's been proven categorically false each time.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;47537375]I didn't realize academia was comprised solely of science[/QUOTE]
Her videos and herself are being used as academic resources in the humanities?
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