• Al-Qaeda force captures Fallujah and declares Islamic State.
    38 replies, posted
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/al-qaeda-force-captures-fallujah-amid-rise-in-violence-in-iraq/2014/01/03/8abaeb2a-74aa-11e3-8def-a33011492df2_story.html?hpid=z1[/url] [QUOTE]BEIRUT — A rejuvenated al-Qaeda-affiliated force asserted control over the western Iraqi city of Fallujah on Friday, raising its flag over government buildings and declaring an Islamic state in one of the most crucial areas that U.S. troops fought to pacify before withdrawing from Iraq two years ago. The capture of Fallujah came amid an explosion of violence across the western desert province of Anbar in which local tribes, Iraqi security forces and al-Qaeda-affiliated militants have been fighting one another for days in a confusingly chaotic three-way war. In Fallujah, where Marines fought the bloodiest battle of the Iraq war in 2004, the militants appeared to have the upper hand, underscoring the extent to which the Iraqi security forces have struggled to sustain the gains made by U.S. troops before they withdrew in December 2011. Events Friday suggested the fight may have been in vain. “We don’t want to hurt you. We don’t want to take any of your possessions,” the man told the crowd, according to the journalist, who attended the prayers. “We want you to reopen the schools and institutions and return to your normal lives.” [/QUOTE]
Shit....
This pretty [b]IS[/B] fucking bad
I'd love to see how this ends up, if the US's efforts were totally wasted or not.
Well this is unfortunate, to say the least. I'm not really well informed regarding the Iraqi forces training, but from what I've been hearing, it's pretty sub-par. So in all honesty this isn't surprising. One can only hope they'll be able to push out the insurgents soon. Otherwise all the fighting all those years ago really were in vain.
Why can't al-Qaeda just be like the Amish and live in little isolated al-Qaeda communities where they can live out their ultra-religious lives in peace? Giving their kids the option to go live in normal civilisation or stay with them, something like that? Why does it always have to be wanton murder and declarations of new Islamic states and weapons of mass destruction, etc?
Oh, how unexpected, I thought al-Qaeda and all the related parties were practically [I]done for[/I] thanks to the glorious Western intervention, as many people here were were trying to convince me just a few weeks ago! :downs:
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;43412083]Why can't al-Qaeda just be like the Amish and live in little isolated al-Qaeda communities where they can live out their ultra-religious lives in peace? Giving their kids the option to go live in normal civilisation or stay with them, something like that? Why does it always have to be wanton murder and declarations of new Islamic states and weapons of mass destruction, etc?[/QUOTE] Zealots aren't well known for logical thinking.
RIP Iraq
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;43412084]Oh, how unexpected, I thought Al-Queda was [I]done for[/I] thanks to the glorious American intervention, as many people here were were trying to convince me just a few weeks ago! :downs:[/QUOTE]The key word in the OP is al-Qaeda [I]affiliated[/I] force. Al-Qaeda itself is pretty much done for, it's just that it was utterly futile as innumerable other organizations have taken it's place.
[QUOTE=Moustacheman;43412088]Zealots aren't well known for logical thinking.[/QUOTE] Lets not forget that alot of this religious fury is a reaction caused by the western powers and their fucking around in MiddleEastern politics.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;43412083]Why can't al-Qaeda just be like the Amish and live in little isolated al-Qaeda communities where they can live out their ultra-religious lives in peace? Giving their kids the option to go live in normal civilisation or stay with them, something like that? Why does it always have to be wanton murder and declarations of new Islamic states and weapons of mass destruction, etc?[/QUOTE] Because they want power, and other people have it, so they go kill those people and take it from them. And to make sure people don't do the same to you, terror bomb some civilians every couple weeks.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;43412092]The key word in the OP is al-Qaeda [I]affiliated[/I] force. Al-Qaeda itself is pretty much done for, it's just that it was utterly futile as innumerable other organizations have taken it's place.[/QUOTE] That's pretty much semantics, it practically doesn't matter. One extremist dictate will be replaced by another, and things will go back to utmost shit in no time. The entire bulk of wars that happened there was a massive waste of resources and human life driven by crusader like ideology and warmongering lobbies.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;43412083]Why can't al-Qaeda just be like the Amish and live in little isolated al-Qaeda communities where they can live out their ultra-religious lives in peace? Giving their kids the option to go live in normal civilisation or stay with them, something like that? Why does it always have to be wanton murder and declarations of new Islamic states and weapons of mass destruction, etc?[/QUOTE] So naive of you to think this is about religion.
[QUOTE=MatheusMCardoso;43412118]So naive of you to think this is about religion.[/QUOTE] Religion is a pretty big factor.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43412123]Religion is a pretty big factor.[/QUOTE] Religion is only there to control the people.
[QUOTE=MatheusMCardoso;43412118]So naive of you to think this is about religion.[/QUOTE] Firstly, I didn't ever exactly buy it and I am being sarcastic, secondly, this isn't as much about religion alone as much as cultural and political amalgamation that persists there. Bottom line is that whoever thought that they will scrape off the ruling whoever and instate a feeble democratic rule, train their peace keeping force a little bit, and then fuck off, expecting them to live peacefully and prosper for any relevant amount of time; was a [B]bloody idiot[/B].
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;43412129]Firstly, I didn't ever exactly buy it and I am being sarcastic, secondly, this isn't as much about religion alone as much as cultural and political amalgamation that persists there. Bottom line is that whoever thought that they will scrape off the ruling whoever and instate a feeble democratic rule, train their peace keeping force a little bit, and then fuck off, expecting them to live peacefully and prosper for any relevant amount of time; was a [B]bloody idiot[/B].[/QUOTE] That was never the plan. The United States requires war to give its economy a boost now and then. Toppling relatively stable governments to create more failed states and power vacuums that they know people will be warring over for decades is their way of making sure they stay in business.
[QUOTE=archangel125;43412144]That was never the plan. The United States requires war to give its economy a boost now and then. Toppling relatively stable governments to create more failed states and power vacuums that they know people will be warring over for decades is their way of making sure they stay in business.[/QUOTE] I would say that making a statement like that upfront is a bit far fetched but sure, thing is that what I am talking about here is what some people here and elsewhere actually believe to be the case. That the wars [I]helped[/I].
Not only can the military contractors make money by supplying their own troops for upcoming conflicts, they can now sell arms to the rival factions.
Mission uhhcomplished.
So uhh...yeaaaahhh....how's that war on terror working out, Congress? [QUOTE=code_gs;43412076]I'd love to see how this ends up, if the US's efforts were totally wasted or not.[/QUOTE] They have been and will continue to be as long as we are operating in the mid-east.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;43412092]The key word in the OP is al-Qaeda [I]affiliated[/I] force. Al-Qaeda itself is pretty much done for, it's just that it was utterly futile as innumerable other organizations have taken it's place.[/QUOTE] Al-Qaeda was never a full blown organization in the first place. It was more like a collective of tiny organizations working together at some point. [QUOTE=Rangergxi;43412123]Religion is a pretty big factor.[/QUOTE] These people are using religion as a tool to control the ignorant. It's all a power play.
Doesn't this mean all those soldiers that died in the battles of fallujah are in vain? It's almost like the war was nearly pointless.
Both the attempts at a military approach and reconstruction have failed, the first only leading to a spiral of violence and the second being ran by profiteers basing their actions on broken doctrines.
Am I the only one that sees some major similarities between our involvement in the Middle East and the Vietnam war? As it stands, this could be like the beginning of the Tet Offensive, except in this war it would be a drawn out attack as we slowly withdraw our forces and let the natives govern themselves again. I'm bad with tagging videos so I'll just say, wasn't there a video from Vice(before it was bought out) about U.S. forces working with the Afghan military that they'd trained, showing just how hopeless those people were? Things like taking illicit drugs in the middle of combat, needlessly wasted all of their ammunition, sneaking away to give the enemy information, and stealing resources to sell in the black market for their own personal profit were large ones. It was almost like reading the biographies of generals in Just Cause 2: one of them was a well known child molester/murderer, but because he was the only Afghan military officer who could control his soldiers and get even the most basic of tasks completed he was kept in power.
This isn't actually a huge deal. There were government protests in Ramada and Fallujah, the government sent troops in to disperse the crowds but withdrew from the cities when things turned violent. Then ISIS militants stormed the government buildings in Ramadi and Fallujah and claimed they had 'seized' control of the cities. In reality, they simply strolled into undefended cities. ISIS forces have already been forced out of Ramadi by local militias, according to this article: [quote] In the provincial capital, Ramadi, tribal fighters have succeeded in ejecting al-Qaeda loyalists, according to Ahmed Abu Risha, a tribal leader who fought alongside U.S. troops against al-Qaeda in Iraq following the “surge” of U.S. troops in 2007. The tribesmen are cooperating with Iraqi police, Abu Risha said, and are receiving weapons and support from the Iraqi army. Among those killed in the fighting was Abu Abdul Rahman al-Baghdadi, the emir, or leader, of ISIS in Ramadi. “All the tribes of Anbar are fighting against al-Qaeda,” he said. “We are happy this fight is taking place. We will confront them face to face, and we will win this battle.”[/quote] And it probably won't be long before they are forced out of Fallujah as well. [editline]Edited:[/editline] I wrote that poorly - any armed conflict is a big deal. But it's not like the Iraqi government is rapidly crumbling or anything, this specific situation is more akin to the inter-tribal conflict that has occurred in post civil war Libya than a new civil war.
Sorry South Sudan, you are no longer the youngest country anymore :v:
Al-Qaeda-affilliated =/= Al Qaeda. I'm really sick and tired of seeing that term in the headlines with nothing whatsoever to back it up, because Americans apparently don't give a shit about a sectarian civil war in Iraq unless one side gets labeled as being "Al Qaeda". What we actually have here is Sunni militia groups rebelling against a Shia-dominated government that is intentionally alienating them.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;43413919]Al-Qaeda-affilliated =/= Al Qaeda. I'm really sick and tired of seeing that term in the headlines with nothing whatsoever to back it up, because Americans apparently don't give a shit about a sectarian civil war in Iraq unless one side gets labeled as being "Al Qaeda". What we actually have here is Sunni militia groups rebelling against a Shia-dominated government that is intentionally alienating them.[/QUOTE] When they aren't killing christians or jews or infidels or whatever, they are killing each other. Glorious extremism.
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