• Valve: There are "hard technical limits" on how many indie games we can Greenlight
    40 replies, posted
[url]http://www.pcgamesn.com/indie/valve-there-are-hard-technical-limits-how-many-indie-games-we-can-greenlight[/url]
Greenlight 2 - Coming soon* [sub][sub][sub]*times may be subject to Valve Time[sup](tm)[/sup][/sub][/sub][/sub]
Is it just me or is Valve really shitty at making tools?
How the fuck? No, seriously? Did they make Greenlight with the thought that "ahh, there will probably only be like 5 games every 5 month that's worth greenlighting". This sounds like some seriously dumb planning I'd only expect from a really bad company that doesn't understand what a huge userbase it has. Valve should definitely know how popular Steam and indie development is and how they could not have a system with a limit, especially not such a tiny one.
[QUOTE=megafat;40569545]Is it just me or is Valve really shitty at making tools?[/QUOTE] Not just you. Look at Hammer.
[QUOTE=Dlaor-guy;40569605]Not just you. Look at Hammer.[/QUOTE] Well Hammer is old as hell. It's reached a point where it would be more wise to start all over with that.
[QUOTE=dgg;40569548]How the fuck? No, seriously? Did they make Greenlight with the thought that "ahh, there will probably only be like 5 games every 5 month that's worth greenlighting". This sounds like some seriously dumb planning I'd only expect from a really bad company that doesn't understand what a huge userbase it has. Valve should definitely know how popular Steam and indie development is and how they could not have a system with a limit, especially not such a tiny one.[/QUOTE] Yeah it's easy to say they fucked up, to an extent they realise that too. But do you realise what they're doing on Steam is a completely unique model on it's own? You don't just develop some fucking tool or system for years to perfect it in your own vision, because you won't know how the rest of your user base will receive it. Especially like Greenlight. What you don't do is what the crew over at ModDB did with Desura and "stealth developed", only that is the closest thing to a Steam + Greenlight tool currently out, but noone uses that as much as Steam.
An open, uncurated store would be an utter shithole within a few days.
[QUOTE=s0m3_guy;40569656]Yeah it's easy to say they fucked up, to an extent they realise that too. But do you realise what they're doing on Steam is a completely unique model on it's own? You don't just develop some fucking tool or system for years to perfect it in your own vision, because you won't know how the rest of your user base will receive it. Especially like Greenlight. What you don't do is what the crew over at ModDB did with Desura and "stealth developed", only that is the closest thing to a Steam + Greenlight tool currently out, but noone uses that as much as Steam.[/QUOTE] Exactly this Steam needs an indie game section IMHO, would be cool. Allows for more games. (Rather, in a way that won't clog the main page)
[QUOTE=s0m3_guy;40569656]Yeah it's easy to say they fucked up, to an extent they realise that too. But do you realise what they're doing on Steam is a completely unique model on it's own?[/QUOTE] What does that have to do with anything? Greenlight is it's own thing and they fucked it up, there is nothing that can detract from that, and being unique has nothing to do with anything. Steam is a store and DRM solution with integrated Xfire functionality, that's all there is to it, there is nothing in that that says it's ok to not plan ahead and think through the usage of their tools in the creation of the Greenlight system.
[QUOTE=dgg;40569735]What does that have to do with anything? Greenlight is it's own thing and they fucked it up, there is nothing that can detract from that, and being unique has nothing to do with anything. Steam is a store and DRM solution with integrated Xfire functionality, that's all there is to it, there is nothing in that that says it's ok to not plan ahead and think through the usage of their tools in the creation of the Greenlight system.[/QUOTE] Man it's like you feel entitled to a free user service, it's not like you gotta think of how you'd cater for a large userbase and attract developers while maintaining your end, so it's easy for you to say it's shit. At the same time you're introducing a completely new service, that I'm pretty sure no one has done. So tell me how the fuck does being unique have nothing to do with exploring unknown reactions? I'd consider Greenlight as neglected, rather than some unplanned piece of shit, because I see this as a base for something better. It's better than sitting on an idea not getting feedback than trying to make it for years and get told it's shit anyway.
[QUOTE=s0m3_guy;40569925]Man it's like you feel entitled to a free user service, it's not like you gotta think of how you'd cater for a large userbase and attract developers while maintaining your end, so it's easy for you to say it's shit. At the same time you're introducing a completely new service, that I'm pretty sure no one has done. So tell me how the fuck does being unique have nothing to do with exploring unknown reactions? I'd consider Greenlight as neglected, rather than some unplanned piece of shit, because I see this as a base for something better. It's better than sitting on an idea not getting feedback than trying to make it for years and get told it's shit anyway.[/QUOTE] They have experimented a shitton with user-created content through TF2, they know how active their userbase is. They have Kickstarter as a good starter reference for how popular indie games are, as well as the indie boom in general and sales figures from those indie games. There is no excuse to reach a maximum limit of games being able to be greenlit at [B]56 games[/B], they have so much data and statistics that can back them up to know that having a system that is so limiting is completely useless. Greenlight isn't that unique as you want it to be, it's like a store, people give it a rating of yes or no instead of stars, and when enough yes votes have been gathered they can look at the title and see if they want to run through with it and put it on the actual store. It's Kickstarter without money or any digital store ever with a requirement for demand from the public before reviewing if they'll take it into stock.
I don't know about uncurated, I still think there should be the voting system in place. It would be really cool if they could get more MMO's to work with steam instead of just using steam to launch the client.
[QUOTE=Van-man;40569638]Well Hammer is old as hell. It's reached a point where it would be more wise to start all over with that.[/QUOTE] Isn't like nearly unchanged from Worldcraft? Does it even support Quake 1/2/GoldSource?
What are these technical limitations? The article doesn't say it.
[QUOTE=Killuah;40570775]What are these technical limitations? The article doesn't say it.[/QUOTE] Valve didn't say anything more specific.
[QUOTE=Dlaor-guy;40569605]Not just you. Look at Hammer.[/QUOTE] For when it was released, Hammer was actually pretty good. It's just old as fuck.
I'm guessing Steam has only so many values it can assign to games, with the games already on Steam and the Greenlight games approved the space must be filling up fast. I'd guess they have to keep space for the companies they have partnerships with over people who haven't signed contracts with them
How is there even a technical limit on putting a green lighting a game? Really??
[QUOTE=sarge997;40571244]How is there even a technical limit on putting a green lighting a game? Really??[/QUOTE] I'm sure it takes a lot of cloud-computing to track the always-online voting system, and it's made that way to save your computer's performance. :v:
[QUOTE=J!NX;40569733]Exactly this Steam needs an indie game section IMHO, would be cool. Allows for more games. (Rather, in a way that won't clog the main page)[/QUOTE] Um.... [url]http://store.steampowered.com/genre/Indie/[/url]
Open a greenlight section instead of Indie imo.
[QUOTE=Dlaor-guy;40569605]Not just you. Look at Hammer.[/QUOTE] Oh god hammer it crashes when you try to open or save something and they STILL haven't fixed that yet.
I suspect this isn't a flaw within greenlight, but perhaps with the tooling for Steam? Doesn't/Didn't every new game, update and such actions require someone at Valve to give it the green light (no pun intended)?
[QUOTE=Mellowbloom;40569726]An open, uncurated store would be an utter shithole within a few days.[/QUOTE] I don't think that's what they're trying to do, judging by this bit:[quote]Bui said that Valve are “actively looking into” a system that would allow indies access to the Steam API to sell their games before being officially Greenlit [...][/quote] It seems they want to give developers access to the DRM/CDN/payment system without putting the titles on the main store.
[QUOTE=Tamschi;40572284]I don't think that's what they're trying to do, judging by this bit: It seems they want to give developers access to the DRM/CDN/payment system without putting the titles on the main store.[/QUOTE]Gabe has talked fairly recently about how he ultimately wants to see Steam become an open, unregulated platform where anyone can upload their content and sell it to anyone. There'd be no restrictions or waiting, you'd just throw it up and sell it off.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;40572461]Gabe has talked fairly recently about how he ultimately wants to see Steam become an open, unregulated platform where anyone can upload their content and sell it to anyone. There'd be no restrictions or waiting, you'd just throw it up and sell it off.[/QUOTE] I'm honestly not too fond of this idea. Steam used to be a platform where, when you shelled out your money, you were pretty damn sure to get a quality product, 'cause shitty games just didn't get on Steam. Since about two years ago, however, this has no longer been true. Now I have to use [I]critical thinking[/I] before I buy stuff, and you all know I hate critical thinking!
[QUOTE=Riller;40572573]I'm honestly not too fond of this idea. Steam used to be a platform where, when you shelled out your money, you were pretty damn sure to get a quality product, 'cause shitty games just didn't get on Steam. Since about two years ago, however, this has no longer been true. Now I have to use [I]critical thinking[/I] before I buy stuff, and you all know I hate critical thinking![/QUOTE] There have always been shit games on steam. Like any game, if you want to make sure you are getting a quality product you should look online for reviews/ask friends/watch videos.
[QUOTE=The freeman;40572675]There have always been shit games on steam. Like any game, if you want to make sure you are getting a quality product you should look online for reviews/ask friends/watch videos.[/QUOTE] Of course there's been the occasional pile of shit, but generally, you were sure to get a quality product on Steam. Now, that's not the case. Shit games, shit games everywhere.
[QUOTE=s0m3_guy;40569925]Man it's like you feel entitled to a free user service[/QUOTE] I don't think you can really claim steam is a free service when valve are making money off every sale.
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