• Group launches site to help women self-induce abortions at home, citing restrictive U.S. laws
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[quote]An international advocacy group concerned about restrictive laws in the United States plans to help women use the abortion pill at home, offering online advice and counseling about how to use medications the Food and Drug Administration says should be taken only by prescription and under medical supervision. Women Help Women, a three-year-old organization headquartered in the Netherlands, this week launched a website to provide one-on-one counseling services for women early in pregnancy who may have illegally obtained the pill on the Internet or through other means. Kinga Jelinska, executive director of Women Help Women, said her organization provides a version of the service in other countries but decided to launch in the United States this year because of the political climate. Republican-led states have enacted a raft of abortion restrictions in recent years, and President Trump has said he supports overturning Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court decision that legalized the procedure nationally. “There is a lot of fear and worry that, with the current administration and restrictions that are to the enormous disadvantage of girls and women, that access to clinical care might further diminish,” said Jelinska, an anthropologist and longtime reproductive rights advocate from Poland, where abortion is illegal except in narrow circumstances. The launch of the site is likely to add fuel to the debate about abortion, particularly those that are done using medication. Medically induced abortions accounted for nearly a third of all non-hospital abortions in the United States in 2014 and almost half of all abortions before nine weeks’ gestation, according to the Guttmacher Institute, a reproductive rights research organization. It also raises questions about the legal ramifications for women using the site, and whether encouraging women to take matters into their own hands this way is safe. The abortion pill approved by the FDA is actually two drugs that may be used in combination through the 10th week of pregnancy. Taken during 24 to 48 hours, the drugs — mifepristone and misoprostol — halt the development of pregnancy and induce miscarriage. The agency recommends medical supervision followed by an in-person follow-up appointment, and it warns people not to obtain the pills over the Internet because they might be unsafe. Abortion foes have sought further restrictions on the medications in the name of safety. A number of women have contracted infections or needed blood transfusions after a medication abortion, and some have died, although the FDA says it is unclear whether the drugs caused the deaths. “These drugs are dangerous. They are deadly. If they are mishandled, they result in serious injury,” said Kristi Hamrick, spokeswoman for Americans United for Life, an antiabortion group that has tried to push states to require strict medical supervision for the use of abortion medications. “To just distribute them and put them in an automatic dispenser like a can of soda is absolutely medical malpractice.” Abortion rights groups say that severe side effects from the drugs are rare; a 2015 study looking at more than 11,000 medication abortions in California found that the incidence of major complications was .31 percent. While there is limited research about self-induced abortion in the United States, women have been performing them for generations. Today’s favored method in the United States happens to be pills, obtained via the Internet or in Mexico, where misoprostol can be purchased over the counter. Home-based abortions are safer for women than they’ve ever been, advocates say.[/quote] [url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/website-aims-to-help-women-self-induce-abortions-using-drugs/2017/04/26/119a1ba8-29c4-11e7-be51-b3fc6ff7faee_story.html?utm_term=.f43b7771a540[/url] [url]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/27/abortion-website-women-help-women?utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&utm_source=women_fb&utm_medium=facebook&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000046[/url]
[QUOTE]“These drugs are dangerous. They are deadly. If they are mishandled, they result in serious injury,” said Kristi Hamrick, spokeswoman for Americans United for Life, an antiabortion group that has tried to push states to require strict medical supervision for the use of abortion medications. “To just distribute them and put them in an automatic dispenser like a can of soda is absolutely medical malpractice.”[/QUOTE] I agree, so why do pro-life groups insist on banning abortion and putting these women in such a desperate position that they would take abortion drugs without medical supervision [I]because they have no other option[/I]? I respect that pro-lifers have solid reasons for believing what they do, but when the consequences of pro-life policies are viewed, it's hard to describe the results as anything but harming women (and their unwanted children) in the name of irrational emotion-based arguments to protect them.
When you ban abortion / unharmful drugs / unharmful sexualities and everything like that in general people start to do dangerous things and look for dangerous alternatives People who try and legally force rape victims to have the kid are the absolute worst of the worst too
Reminds me of the time another emotionally charged shitshow, the war on drugs, resulted in the creation of crack-cocaine and Spice, both of which are far more harmful than the things they were created to replace.. Almost like forcing your evangelical morals on people isn't going to do anything but harm people. Weird.
Another case of the US being stuck decades in the past and being completely oblivious to the harm it causes.
This is what happens when you defund planned parenthood
guess what! banning abortion doesn't reduce the number of abortions, just the number of [i]safe[/i] abortions
[QUOTE=Judas;52162222]guess what! banning abortion doesn't reduce the number of abortions, just the number of [i]safe[/i] abortions[/QUOTE] Honestly the best way to reduce the number of abortions is sane, factually correct sex education and access to contraceptives. There's a reason why states which push back against sex ed also tend to have the highest rates of teen pregnancy...
ban guns -> people get them illegally, ban abortions-> people get them illegally ezpz
Good for them. Sad that women have to rely on someone less "legitimate" for access to the basic care they need. There is a strange delusion in the US that abortion is somehow a new and terrible thing, modern medicine gone horribly awry. Interestingly, if you look at the history of traditional medicine throughout the world, among the more commonly recognized drugs are the abortifacients. Plants such as [i]Ruta sp.[/I] provided women with a way out of a situation that otherwise might not bode well for their long term survival. Cultural attitudes in general towards abortion/infanticide are really strange and often uncomfortable to read about. If I recall correctly, it wasn't until fairly recently that the Catholic Church took a stance against those practices - permitting abortion until rather late in pregnancy. It disgusts me that this issue has become little more than a political rallying tool.
[QUOTE=Biotoxsin;52162761]Good for them. Sad that women have to rely on someone less "legitimate" for access to the basic care they need. There is a strange delusion in the US that abortion is somehow a new and terrible thing, modern medicine gone horribly awry. Interestingly, if you look at the history of traditional medicine throughout the world, among the more commonly recognized drugs are the abortifacients. Plants such as [I]Ruta sp.[/I] provided women with a way out of a situation that otherwise might not bode well for their long term survival. Cultural attitudes in general towards abortion/infanticide are really strange and often uncomfortable to read about. If I recall correctly, it wasn't until fairly recently that the Catholic Church took a stance against those practices - permitting abortion until rather late in pregnancy. It disgusts me that this issue has become little more than a political rallying tool.[/QUOTE] This is just one of the weird cases where "the dark ages" shows itself to be a shitty term. But yeah, you are correct. They believed that while whatever was inside of you was something alive, it didn't have a soul put into it until the mother could feel/perceive its movements. ranging from 12-20 weeks depending on conditions. Now modern anti-abortion groups think it's human at the moment of conception
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;52161787]I agree, so why do pro-life groups insist on banning abortion and putting these women in such a desperate position that they would take abortion drugs without medical supervision [I]because they have no other option[/I]? I respect that pro-lifers have solid reasons for believing what they do, but when the consequences of pro-life policies are viewed, it's hard to describe the results as anything but harming women (and their unwanted children) in the name of irrational emotion-based arguments to protect them.[/QUOTE] You don't decide right and wrong based purely on results. Someone could make the exact same argument about making theft illegal, or murder illegal, or any other number of crimes. Sure, they would be safer to commit if we didn't make them illegal, but that doesn't mean we should make them legal. You also seem to contradict yourself in the second sentence. Do pro-lifers have solid reasons or do they have irrational emotion-based on reasons?
[QUOTE=froztshock;52162334]Honestly the best way to reduce the number of abortions is sane, factually correct sex education and access to contraceptives. There's a reason why states which push back against sex ed also tend to have the highest rates of teen pregnancy...[/QUOTE] They are also the same states that are against abortion. They don't care about life or anyone's well being, they just want good boy points by enforcing their ancient cult on others.
[QUOTE=sgman91;52162929]You don't decide right and wrong based purely on results. Someone could make the exact same argument about making theft illegal, or murder illegal, or any other number of crimes. Sure, they would be safer to commit if we didn't make them illegal, but that doesn't mean we should make them legal. You also seem to contradict yourself in the second sentence. Do pro-lifers have solid reasons or do they have irrational emotion-based on reasons?[/QUOTE] Wait are you actually saying that the world wouldn't be an anarchist hellscape if murder was legal? That doesn't make sense. I mean a lot of the crimes you could legalize would affect a lot of people beyond the one doing the crime and the victim. Even if you think fetuses are people, abortion doesn't really have those effects.
[QUOTE=sgman91;52162929]You don't decide right and wrong based purely on results. Someone could make the exact same argument about making theft illegal, or murder illegal, or any other number of crimes. Sure, they would be safer to commit if we didn't make them illegal, but that doesn't mean we should make them legal. You also seem to contradict yourself in the second sentence. Do pro-lifers have solid reasons or do they have irrational emotion-based on reasons?[/QUOTE] Alright so if we look at abortion rates and how they affect crime rates years later with the direct correlation that more unwanted babies generates more crime down the road, would that make any difference to you? Abortion is fairly dark element of humanity, but it's still something a woman has a right to based on her body.
[QUOTE=sgman91;52162929]You also seem to contradict yourself in the second sentence. Do pro-lifers have solid reasons or do they have irrational emotion-based on reasons?[/QUOTE] [I]It is hard to describe[/I] their reasons as anything but not solid when viewed against the results of their beliefs put into practice. That is distinctly different than acknowledging that they aren't committing thoughtcrime by being pro-life. An unwanted child is likely to grow up into a troubled and possibly criminal adult. At the very least, their upbringing will be marked with increased suffering and hardship, and possibly abuse, compared to if the mother (and both parents) was prepared for a child and desired the pregnancy. Pro-lifers seem to think this is more acceptable than the concept of prematurely ending the biological viability of something that is barely human, assuming the abortion is being performed at an early and safe enough stage. Don't even get me started on pro-lifers who don't see a compassionate exception for rape victims. I don't have as much positive to say about the rationality of their beliefs.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52163195]Abortion is fairly dark element of humanity, but it's still something a woman has a right to based on her body.[/QUOTE] Can I butt in to say that abortion isn't really that big of a deal? Like wow you prevented a couple cells from growing into a person. Big whoop. People should consider it for what it is, not wallow over hypotheticals. Why care even if someone aborts on the last day they legally can because they decided they simply don't want the child. That human not-to-be didn't happen, and that's that.
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;52163660]Can I butt in to say that abortion isn't really that big of a deal? Like wow you prevented a couple cells from growing into a person. Big whoop. People should consider it for what it is, not wallow over hypotheticals. Why care even if someone aborts on the last day they legally can because they decided they simply don't want the child. That human not-to-be didn't happen, and that's that.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I wouldn't put it exactly in those terms but I also don't think abortion done within the permissible limits is a huge deal either. Especially if it's super early stage with the pill, from what I've read it doesn't feel much different than a particularly stormy period, kind of like when you've been delaying your period for ages using contraceptives.
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;52163660]Can I butt in to say that abortion isn't really that big of a deal? Like wow you prevented a couple cells from growing into a person. Big whoop. People should consider it for what it is, not wallow over hypotheticals. Why care even if someone aborts on the last day they legally can because they decided they simply don't want the child. That human not-to-be didn't happen, and that's that.[/QUOTE] It's less that, and more of the ways that abortion is actually performed. Thankfully a lot of the worst kinds are now prohibited in their use, but irregardless some of them are straight up disturbing, and it's no wonder simpletons would believe abortion is a bad thing from even just reading the description of some of them.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;52164507]It's less that, and more of the ways that abortion is actually performed. Thankfully a lot of the worst kinds are now prohibited in their use, but irregardless some of them are straight up disturbing, and it's no wonder simpletons would believe abortion is a bad thing from even just reading the description of some of them.[/QUOTE] The blatant misinformation campaigns haven't helped with that. The "straight up disturbing" methods hawkishly pushed out by anti-abortion groups as the supposed standard, where the fetus is dismembered and pulled out piece by piece, are strictly reserved for medically necessary late-term abortions wherein the life of the mother is at imminent risk, and/or the baby has already died or cannot survive. Pro-life groups show these nasty pictures and infographics to trick people into thinking that this is somehow the true face of abortion, but it's nothing but propaganda. First trimester abortions, which should be available at will for any reason, really are no big deal. The grisly, gory, dismembered baby pictures that pro-life groups love to shock people with simply don't reflect the reality of the situation for early term at-will abortions, and nothing but a fringe minority of people are requesting at-will late term abortions.
absolutely horrible, when will planned parenthoods iron grasp on providing abortions end? maybe then we can get some local clinics that actually do shit.
[QUOTE=Mitchd247;52166371]absolutely horrible, when will planned parenthoods iron grasp on providing abortions end? maybe then we can get some local clinics that actually do shit.[/QUOTE] You think [I]this[/I] is the problem? Can you point to me a law that states only Planned Parenthood may perform abortions? Do you realize that PP does a ton of other things and abortions form the tiniest minority of their services? Do you realize that defunding Planned Parenthood increases unwanted pregnancies and drastically boosts the demand for abortions whether they are legal in a given state or not? [QUOTE]Republican-led states have enacted a raft of abortion restrictions in recent years, and President Trump has said he supports overturning Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court decision that legalized the procedure nationally.[/QUOTE] This is the problem. America is at war against female reproductive health. Pointing at Planned Parenthood as the problem is a superior fucking act of propaganda doublethink that I'm just astonished.
[QUOTE=Mitchd247;52166371]absolutely horrible, when will planned parenthoods iron grasp on providing abortions end? maybe then we can get some local clinics that actually do shit.[/QUOTE] This is the second time you've made this argument, but you still haven't explained what you actually mean by it. Please, elaborate on this thought so that we can hopefully find some logical core to it.
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