G-7 Holds Meeting In Hopes To Press Russia to Stop Backing Syria
29 replies, posted
[quote] Foreign ministers from the Group of Seven industrialized nations are gathering Monday for a meeting given urgency by the chemical attack in Syria and the U.S. military response, with participants aiming to pressure Russia to end its support for President Bashar Assad.
Last week's nerve gas attack in the rebel-held town of Khan Sheikhoun, which killed more than 80 people, stirred President Donald Trump to strike for the first time at Assad's forces. U.S. warships fired 59 cruise missiles at the Syrian air base from which the U.S. believes the attack was launched.
U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said Monday at the site of a World War II-era Nazi massacre in central Italy that the United States is rededicating itself to hold to account "any and all" who commit crimes against innocent people.
Tillerson accompanied Italian Foreign Minister Angelino Alfano to Santa'Anna di Stazzema, a site of Nazi atrocities where 560 civilians, including some 130 children, were killed during World War II.
Alfano said the massacre site was a reminder that "peace is not a given. ... That is why we are here to work all together for peace and liberty."
Over the weekend, Alfano said that Europe's broad support for the U.S. military strikes had contributed to a "renewed harmony" between the United States and its partners ahead of the first meeting of G-7 foreign ministers since Donald Trump took office in January.
"We need to remember that not 10 years ago, but 100 or 120 days ago, the concern in Europe was that the United States and the EU were moving apart," Alfano told Sky TG24 Sunday. "I welcome this renewed harmony."
Officials are hoping that this can be leveraged to bring a new diplomatic push to end the 6-year-old civil war in Syria.[/quote]
[url=https://www.apnews.com/fb227ad4203a4a0a805dc51b57e69dcf/G-7-ministers-aim-to-press-Russia-to-stop-backing-Assad]AP[/url]
Gotta hurry up before any inconsistency with claims about what exactly caused chemical exposure after airstrike surf up.
Is there any, any non speculative conclusive report by UN appointed misions or other independent organisations without projected bias on it?
[QUOTE=karimatrix;52084360]Gotta hurry up before any inconsistency with claims about what exactly caused chemical exposure after airstrike surf up.
Is there any, any non speculative conclusive report by UN appointed misions or other independent organisations without projected bias on it?[/QUOTE]
Why do you always demand independent investigations and verification whenever there is the possibility of Russia or one of its allies being implicated in something bad, but you are happy to make baseless accusations against the West?
[QUOTE=David29;52084407]Why do you always demand independent investigations and verification whenever there is the possibility of Russia or one of its allies being implicated in something bad, but you are happy to make baseless accusations against the West?[/QUOTE]
why is skepticism against the east okay, but skepticism against the west blasphemy?
[QUOTE=Egevened;52084489]why is skepticism against the east okay, but skepticism against the west blasphemy?[/QUOTE]
You want to tell everyone here that skepticism against western nations is blasphemous on this forum?
There's a difference between healthy skepticism and baseless accusations by the way
[QUOTE=Egevened;52084489]why is skepticism against the east okay, but skepticism against the west blasphemy?[/QUOTE]
Actually, skepticism against the West isn't blasphemy. You will find that the vast majority of the Westerners on FP are critical of the their governments at some point or another.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;52084360]Gotta hurry up before any inconsistency with claims about what exactly caused chemical exposure after airstrike surf up.
Is there any, any non speculative conclusive report by UN appointed misions or other independent organisations without projected bias on it?[/QUOTE]
You've always been shilling for Russia.
Why try hide it?
I have no idea what I would think or feel if Trump and his administration actually brought a end to the Syrian war.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;52087658]I have no idea what I would think or feel if Trump and his administration actually brought a end to the Syrian war.[/QUOTE]
Can't tell you much but soon, I'll Explain later.
ISIS will be gone and Assad out, and the Syrian People themselves will elect a new leader.
US will be in Support role, no intervention.
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;52087666]Can't tell you much but soon, I'll Explain later.
ISIS will be gone and Assad out, and the Syrian People themselves will elect a new leader.
US will be in Support role, no intervention.[/QUOTE]
United States was and [I]always[/I] will be imperialistic since late 19th century, keeps intervened on smaller nations (who don't favor United States way of thinking) no matter what nations that didn't fully attack them.
And later cycle keep repeating itself again (Korea to Iraq as clear examples) in next decade if Americans need to stop bloody support and voting those old two pro-war parties and least need voted anti-war party or anti-war independent presidential candidate for once.
But yet again we never will let them go.
Even your voting system and other problems in your political culture need to evolve or reformed by this point.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;52084360]Gotta hurry up before any inconsistency with claims about what exactly caused chemical exposure after airstrike surf up.
Is there any, any non speculative conclusive report by UN appointed misions or other independent organisations without projected bias on it?[/QUOTE]
lane drops bomb, people die from sarin gas, owner of plane claims it was isis mustard gas instead, people still dead from sarin gas.
[editline]11th April 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=ChadMcGoatMan;52087904]United States was and [I]always[/I] will be imperialistic since late 19th century, keeps intervened on smaller nations (who don't favor United States way of thinking) no matter what nations that didn't fully attack them.
And later cycle keep repeating itself again (Korea to Iraq as clear examples) in next decade if Americans need to stop bloody support and voting those old two pro-war parties and least need voted anti-war party or anti-war independent presidential candidate for once.
But yet again we never will let them go.[/QUOTE]
im sorry but the US was imperialist to defend south korea from a communist, soviet backed attempt to forcibly unify the peninsula under their puppet rule? iraq you got us, there was no justification to remove sadam but then I think we would be having the same conversation about regime changes today with uprisings in iraq and syria since the underlying causes of the civil war and ISIS were still quite present in sadams iraq.
to quantify all of US foreign affairs as interferance is a massive misjudgement. we have done things that are clearly imperialist in nature but then we also act in humanitarian ways quite a lot, more so than any other country in the world.
[QUOTE=Sableye;52087914]lane drops bomb, people die from sarin gas, owner of plane claims it was isis mustard gas instead, people still dead from sarin gas.
[editline]11th April 2017[/editline]
im sorry but the US was imperialist to defend south korea from a communist, soviet backed attempt to forcibly unify the peninsula under their puppet rule? iraq you got us, there was no justification to remove sadam but then I think we would be having the same conversation about regime changes today with uprisings in iraq and syria since the underlying causes of the civil war and ISIS were still quite present in sadams iraq.
to quantify all of US foreign affairs as interferance is a massive misjudgement. we have done things that are clearly imperialist in nature but then we also act in humanitarian ways quite a lot, more so than any other country in the world.[/QUOTE]
Ok, But its imperialistic tradition has roots way before Cold War with Communist Russia/Soviet Union and started with by President Andrew Jackson in regional scale with Native Americans removal until 1898 with American-Spanish war which they begin play international politics ever since.
And you also forget Vietnam too.
[QUOTE=Ghost656;52084498]
There's a difference between healthy skepticism and baseless accusations by the way[/QUOTE]
The fact that Syrian government is blamed for chemical attacks is the baseless accusation here.
Every action has some sort of reason behind them. Assad using chemical weapons against civilians this time makes no fucking sense, yet nobody even considers this.
[QUOTE=LAMB SAUCE;52087185]You've always been shilling for Russia.
Why try hide it?[/QUOTE]
Pulling the "shill" card is just as petty and pathetic as trying to make Tudd answer. Karimatrix doesn't defend Russia all the time, yet ultimately everyone try to see that in his posts. Those people (you including) are no better than Karimatrix in terms of shilling for/against West
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;52087658]I have no idea what I would think or feel if Trump and his administration actually brought a end to the Syrian war.[/QUOTE]
Sheer confusion and the realization that he'll be in for another term.
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52088516]The fact that Syrian government is blamed for chemical attacks is the baseless accusation here.
Every action has some sort of reason behind them. Assad using chemical weapons against civilians this time makes no fucking sense, yet nobody even considers this.
Pulling the "shill" card is just as petty and pathetic as trying to make Tudd answer. Karimatrix doesn't defend Russia all the time, yet ultimately everyone try to see that in his posts. Those people (you including) are no better than Karimatrix in terms of shilling for/against West[/QUOTE]
Can you provide some examples where Karimatrix has criticised Russia please.
[QUOTE=Egevened;52084489]why is skepticism against the east okay, but skepticism against the west blasphemy?[/QUOTE]
It isnt. What is causing the issue is when someone has skepticism for only one. Both the East and the West do tons of dumb and shady shit that deserves attention, calling out only one while glossing over the other is the problem.
[editline]11th April 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;52087658]I have no idea what I would think or feel if Trump and his administration actually brought a end to the Syrian war.[/QUOTE]
amazement, possibly anger depending on how it is ended and who fills the power vacuum he leaves behind, and confirmation that the broken clock adage is truth.
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52088516]The fact that Syrian government is blamed for chemical attacks is the baseless accusation here.
Every action has some sort of reason behind them. Assad using chemical weapons against civilians this time makes no fucking sense, yet nobody even considers this.[/QUOTE]
Assad also sent the army to kill protestors in the Siege of Daraa before the civil war truly broke out, more than 200 people got killed.
Do you think it's that far-fetched for the same Assad to use chemical weapons on civilian populated areas?
Besides using chemical weapons is internationally forbidden under the Chemical Weapons Convention, even if civilians weren't targetted.
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52088516]
Pulling the "shill" card is just as petty and pathetic as trying to make Tudd answer. Karimatrix doesn't defend Russia all the time, yet ultimately everyone try to see that in his posts. Those people (you including) are no better than Karimatrix in terms of shilling for/against West[/QUOTE]
I'd also like to see genuine criticism on the Russian government by karimatrix.
If you think people call karimatrix a shill simply because he has differing opinions then you're thinking wrong.
[QUOTE=Ghost656;52089082]Assad also sent the army to kill protestors in the Siege of Daraa before the civil war truly broke out, more than 200 people got killed.
Do you think it's that far-fetched for the same Assad to use chemical weapons on civilian populated areas?
Besides using chemical weapons is internationally forbidden under the Chemical Weapons Convention, even if civilians weren't targetted.
[/QUOTE]
That was before 1) dismantling of chemical weapons, 2) being confirmed that Assad has no weapons by UN delegates.
Finally, Assad [b]had a reason[/b] to commence that attack. Give me a [u]good, plausible[/u] reason why Assad would do it NOW, of all times, when the country is slowly going on the path of recovery?
[quote]show us when kari wasn't shill!!!![/quote]
[url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1558070]Pretty much this thread[/url] is a good example that users on FP simply get out of their way to find Karimatrix as a shill.
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52089205]That was before 1) dismantling of chemical weapons, 2) being confirmed that Assad has no weapons by UN delegates.
Finally, Assad [b]had a reason[/b] to commence that attack. Give me a [u]good, plausible[/u] reason why Assad would do it NOW, of all times, when the country is slowly going on the path of recovery?
[/QUOTE]
Assesing the entire chemical weapon stockpile of a nation is virtually impossible, nothing stops Syria from keeping some chemical weapons stashed away.
Please give me a good reason to justify the killing of civilians in the siege of Daara first, because I certainly never heard someone say that.
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52089205]
[url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1558070]Pretty much this thread[/url] is a good example that users on FP simply get out of their way to find Karimatrix as a shill.[/QUOTE]
I meant genuine criticism, not "ehh you know guys this is an unsanctioned event so police can do what they want and most of these protestors don't even know what they're doing!!"
before pretending to be neutral.
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52089205]
Finally, Assad [b]had a reason[/b] to commence that attack. Give me a [u]good, plausible[/u] reason why Assad would do it NOW, of all times, when the country is slowly going on the path of recovery?
[/QUOTE]
A week prior to the attacks, the Trump administration stated that they had no intentions of removing Assad. Perhaps he was just testing how the US would respond? Considering how lackluster our response was the last time (and Trumps admin being all friendly with Putin), maybe he thought nothing significant would happen.
Stop backing Syria so we can oust their leader, and leave them with a few decades of turmoil as we like to do. Meanwhile we decide the next country to overthrow, Iran is too powerful and the Saudis already called Yemen, so I dunno like maybe Sudan or something.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52090192]Stop backing Syria so we can oust their leader, and leave them with a few decades of turmoil as we like to do. Meanwhile we decide the next country to overthrow, Iran is too powerful and the Saudis already called Yemen, so I dunno like maybe Sudan or something.[/QUOTE]
how about UAE? Saudi Arabia won't even notice.
[QUOTE=Ghost656;52089311]Assesing the entire chemical weapon stockpile of a nation is virtually impossible, nothing stops Syria from keeping some chemical weapons stashed away.
Please give me a good reason to justify the killing of civilians in the siege of Daara first, because I certainly never heard someone say that.[/QUOTE]
Threat of mass protests aginzt his regime for starters?
I agree that the mortgage of trust has been used up entirely, but issues like this you DO NOT kneejerk on issues such as these. Again, give me a good reason why Assad would do it now, or else you are simply shillling for the US.
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52088516]The fact that Syrian government is blamed for chemical attacks is the baseless accusation here.
Every action has some sort of reason behind them. Assad using chemical weapons against civilians this time makes no fucking sense, yet nobody even considers this.
Pulling the "shill" card is just as petty and pathetic as trying to make Tudd answer. Karimatrix doesn't defend Russia all the time, yet ultimately everyone try to see that in his posts. Those people (you including) are no better than Karimatrix in terms of shilling for/against West[/QUOTE]
Yet he defends them most of the time, regardless of evidence or level of heinousness of the atrocities they commit.
It's not cheap if its describing what he actually is.
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52090683]Threat of mass protests aginzt his regime for starters?
I agree that the mortgage of trust has been used up entirely, but issues like this you DO NOT kneejerk on issues such as these. Again, give me a good reason why Assad would do it now, or else you are simply shillling for the US.[/QUOTE]
Being reasonably suspicious of Assad (who has a terrible track record) is classed as shilling for the USA now?
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52090683]Again, give me a good reason why Assad would do it now, or else you are simply shillling for the US.[/QUOTE]
Why does the reason have to be 'good'? People do stupid things for stupid reasons all the time.
Judging from Assad's prior behavior, I think it's safe to say that he's a power-tripping dickwad. Power-tripping dickwads tend to think that they are above the rules. When a power-tripping dickwad also has a huge ego, they also want everyone else to "know" they are above the rules. The Geneva Conventions gave him some rules to follow (which where re-enforced a little by the US in 2013), so he needed to """"prove"""" that those rules are beneath him. He thought that, given the Trump administration's ties to Russia (and Trump's comment about not going after Assad), all of the world powers either had his back, or didn't care enough about him to do anything. However, he failed to take into account Trump's willingness to respond more harshly (and so did his voters :v:).
How about another possible reason?
Assad woke up one day and said 'fuck it'.
Another?
Assad didn't give the order. Instead, one of his generals acted on their own.
This is, of course, all speculation. But because we don't have mind-reading powers, speculation is the best you are gonna get. Maybe you should focus on things that we can actually know, instead of something that nobody can know because mind reading isn't a thing.
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52090683]Threat of mass protests aginzt his regime for starters?
I agree that the mortgage of trust has been used up entirely, but issues like this you DO NOT kneejerk on issues such as these. Again, give me a good reason why Assad would do it now, or else you are simply shillling for the US.[/QUOTE]
You think the threat of mass protest against his regime was a good reason to start murdering civilians?
[QUOTE=Jcw87;52091435]
This is, of course, all speculation. .[/QUOTE]
This is entirely the only reason why I am so opposed to this utterly retarded decision to bombard the airport. Nothing has been conclusive as of yet. Best case scenario - lucky guess, worst case scenario - ISIS did it, and what happens then?
[editline]12th April 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;52091627]You think the threat of mass protest against his regime was a good reason to start murdering civilians?[/QUOTE]
You are trying to avoid the question (because you know you cannot give me an answer) and try to nitpick my words in order to make me look bad (trying to imply I think mass-murdering civilians is a-ok). Figured as much.
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52092908]
You are trying to avoid the question (because you know you cannot give me an answer) and try to nitpick my words in order to make me look bad (trying to imply I think mass-murdering civilians is a-ok). Figured as much.[/QUOTE]
The guy asked you this
[QUOTE=Ghost656;52089311]Assesing the entire chemical weapon stockpile of a nation is virtually impossible, nothing stops Syria from keeping some chemical weapons stashed away.
[B]Please give me a good reason to justify the killing of civilians in the siege of Daara first, because I certainly never heard someone say that.
[/B][/QUOTE]
to which you responded
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52090683][B]Threat of mass protests aginzt his regime for starters? [/B]
I agree that the mortgage of trust has been used up entirely, but issues like this you DO NOT kneejerk on issues such as these. Again, give me a good reason why Assad would do it now, or else you are simply shillling for the US.[/QUOTE]
I didn't nitpick at all. No one is avoiding the awnser, he was actually trying to give you one right there. From the beginning the rational thing to do wouldn't have been to start murdering your people over protest, yet Assad, undeniably, did just that. He has just as good of a reason for gassing civilians as he does bombing them.
Im curious as to what Karimatrix and CruelAddict think of Russia vetoing Syrian compliance with a UN investigation.
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