• Who here hates war movies?
    102 replies, posted
I mean seriously. So much "la-de-da-I'm-an-American-let's-shoot-dem-Nazis/Arabs/Gooks/Commies" "Look-at-me-I-have-a-gun-I'm-so-hardcore" I can barely even stand it. Most of them are just a massive ego trip trying to promote violence and mindless patriotism. Sure, there are a few out there that really jerk a few salty water droplets from the nasolacrimal duct, but not many have actual substance. I guess they're good if you're looking for a brainless movie with blood and guts. I've seen a few war movies that I've enjoyed, but for the most part (~90 percent of the time) they're really terrible either morally or in some other cinema-related way. I definitely didn't get my point across very well, but hopefully I have successfully shared at least some of my mind in this matter. Now share yo'pinions.
Eh, I think that there are a few (and I put that very delicately) war movies out there that are meant to touch an individual, and mean something far more than "yee-haw! Fuck the Nazis" (although I agree with that sentiment 100%, fuck the Nazi's". Some of the war movies out there are meant to champion brotherliness, comradeship, and, in most cases, burn into your brain that war is possibly the most horrible plague upon humanity that has ever beset itself upon us! Take "Saving Private Ryan" for instance. With the bare-bones storyline that they may have had on their hands at one time or another, the writers of this (in my opinion) excellent movie could have, at one point or another, turned it into another "woohoo lets save Ryan and kill a gazillion krauts along the way!" movie. But, graciously, they did not. They turned it into a movie that, while making you realize that the bonds forged on the battlefield are unbreakable, and strangers become brothers, there is a deeper, darker meaning to a movie like that. Underneath all the spraying of blood, the flying of bodyparts, and the splattering of brains, one solid idea remains: war is hell. Simple, plain, and effective.
Well like I said, there are definitely war movies (good ones at that) which at least attempt to break from the yeehaw traditional kind of war movie. Saving Private Ryan is a pretty good example. While not exactly my favorite movie, it has many good scenes (like when that guy was sitting on the stairs scared shitless while his teammate was busy getting stabbed by a German right above him). Nevertheless, the venerable "war is hell" slogan adds to the glorification of war (in a morbid sense).
I can understand where you're coming from, and it's a good point. There are cart-loads of war movies out there where the entire point of the movie is to wave a victorious (if not rather propaganda-embroidered) banner over whatever war effort might be going on at the time!
Good thing you guys provided examples of those over the top war movies or I would think you're just being lazy and generalizing the entire genre.
[IMG]http://www.voodoo-world.cz/falcon/iron_eagle/iepic1.gif[/IMG] :iia:
Only over the top war movie I've seen was Rambo. I haven't watched a war movie besides one which didn't paint a bad picture of war, or at least of the superiors.
Platoon, the Deer Hunter, Saving Private Ryan, Apocalypse Now, all of those don't match the OP.
[QUOTE=NeuFeX;26971235]Platoon, the Deer Hunter, Saving Private Ryan, Apocalypse Now, all of those don't match the OP.[/QUOTE] Why can't we have bad reading anymore :frown:
[QUOTE=King_of_Town;26971013]Well like I said, there are definitely war movies (good ones at that) which at least attempt to break from the yeehaw traditional kind of war movie. Saving Private Ryan is a pretty good example. While not exactly my favorite movie, it has many good scenes (like when that guy was sitting on the stairs scared shitless while his teammate was busy getting stabbed by a German right above him). Nevertheless, the venerable "war is hell" slogan adds to the glorification of war (in a morbid sense).[/QUOTE] What? Saving private ryan is the epitome of a "traditional" war movie. Besides the great cinematography its a pretty run-of-the-mill war movie story exactly as you described in the OP. Less traditional war movies would be Full metal jacket, apocalypse now, platoon, and others.
I know quite a few great World War 2 related TV series and movies, that I'd recommend. Problem is, they are all in Russian and are not translated into English for obvious reasons. And OP, you're just not looking in the right direction. There are plenty of good War Movies out there that don't go into the "yeeehaw!" bullshit.
I rarely watch war movies too, got tired of the usual "American good guys, good but useless British and evil Germans/Japanese/Russians without souls". Give me an impartial war movie, then I'll watch it. Also no cry-fests please, emotional problems in wars are ok, but I don't need to see it for 90% of the movie. Oh and I want a war movie, not a psychological insight of the minds of soldiers at home/before the war/after the war (Letters from Our Fathers comes to mind).
[QUOTE=acds;26972079]I rarely watch war movies too, got tired of the usual "American good guys, good but useless British and evil Germans/Japanese/Russians without souls". Give me an impartial war movie, then I'll watch it. Also no cry-fests please, emotional problems in wars are ok, but I don't need to see it for 90% of the movie. Oh and I want a war movie, not a psychological insight of the minds of soldiers at home/before the war/after the war (Letters from Our Fathers comes to mind).[/QUOTE] Enemy at the gate? Haven't seen it, but it's Stalingrad during WW2 so at least there aren't any "yee-haw" yankees. I heard it's pretty good. EDIT: not movies, but Band of Brothers and The Pacific show both the Americans and the Germans/Japanese as humans. Some good, some not, but none are considered actual monsters.
I do hate War movies, but not for the reasons you've stated. I hate them because they're usually just showing the same war over and bloody over again, and they usually do not contribute to any new knowledge of said wars. They never give us another perspective, it's just the same bloody good guys running around shooting people and being called heroes for it.
[QUOTE=gufu;26971735]And OP, you're just not looking in the right direction. There are plenty of good War Movies out there that don't go into the "yeeehaw!" bullshit.[/QUOTE] That. I've seen very good war movies without that run-and-gun cowboy crap, most of them being non-American, from smaller film industries residing in Europe.
Someone clearly hasn't watched Letters From Iwo Jima
[QUOTE=deltasquid;26972171]Enemy at the gate? Haven't seen it, but it's Stalingrad during WW2 so at least there aren't any "yee-haw" yankees. I heard it's pretty good. EDIT: not movies, but Band of Brothers and The Pacific show both the Americans and the Germans/Japanese as humans. Some good, some not, but none are considered actual monsters.[/QUOTE] No Enemy at the Gates sucked and threw historical accuracy and realism down the drain for a love story and drama.
I don't think I've seen a single war movie that fits your description OP. Rambo might, but sure as hell the first one doesn't at least.
[QUOTE=NeuFeX;26971235]Platoon, the Deer Hunter, Saving Private Ryan, Apocalypse Now, all of those don't match the OP.[/QUOTE] Add in Johnny got your Gun and All Quiet on the Western Front. The latter of which was a WW1 film from the German perspective. [editline]26th December 2010[/editline] Your description fits war video games more than it does movies.
Watch "stalingrad" it takes the view from ordinary german foot soliders just trying to survive.
[img]http://swipelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ThePacificIntertitle.jpg[/img] Didn't glorify anyone
[QUOTE=King_of_Town;26970800]I mean seriously. So much "la-de-da-I'm-an-American-let's-shoot-dem-Nazis/Arabs/Gooks/Commies" "Look-at-me-I-have-a-gun-I'm-so-hardcore" I can barely even stand it. Most of them are just a massive ego trip trying to promote violence and mindless patriotism. Sure, there are a few out there that really jerk a few salty water droplets from the nasolacrimal duct, but not many have actual substance. I guess they're good if you're looking for a brainless movie with blood and guts. I've seen a few war movies that I've enjoyed, but for the most part (~90 percent of the time) they're really terrible either morally or in some other cinema-related way. I definitely didn't get my point across very well, but hopefully I have successfully shared at least some of my mind in this matter. Now share yo'pinions.[/QUOTE] i hate [B]you[/B]
[img]http://www.fondosdepantalla.biz/images/wallpapers/band_of_brothers-1280x1024-583182.jpeg[/img] Glorification of violence? Glorification of something else. [b]The hint is in the fucking title.[/b]
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;26984442] Glorification of violence? Glorification of something else. [b]The hint is in the fucking title.[/b][/QUOTE] The whole 'brotherhood of war' thing is a huge cliche. It's just as bad as when a war movie is overly patriotic.
[QUOTE=imaguy;26985010]The whole 'brotherhood of war' thing is a huge cliche. It's just as bad as when a war movie is overly patriotic.[/QUOTE] Read the book tell me that again.
I end up liking movies that are critical of wars a lot more than honoring veterans or something like that.
war movies are alright sometimes, but they too often just keep running over the same old cliches. its hard to find one that actually manages not to make you just say "oh give me a break ive seen this 20 times already
[QUOTE=King_of_Town;26970800]I mean seriously. So much "la-de-da-I'm-an-American-let's-shoot-dem-Nazis/Arabs/Gooks/Commies" "Look-at-me-I-have-a-gun-I'm-so-hardcore" I can barely even stand it. Most of them are just a massive ego trip trying to promote violence and mindless patriotism. Sure, there are a few out there that really jerk a few salty water droplets from the nasolacrimal duct, but not many have actual substance. I guess they're good if you're looking for a brainless movie with blood and guts. I've seen a few war movies that I've enjoyed, but for the most part (~90 percent of the time) they're really terrible either morally or in some other cinema-related way. I definitely didn't get my point across very well, but hopefully I have successfully shared at least some of my mind in this matter. Now share yo'pinions.[/QUOTE] An example of movie that you're talking about?
[QUOTE=imaguy;26985010]The whole 'brotherhood of war' thing is a huge cliche. It's just as bad as when a war movie is overly patriotic.[/QUOTE] It's impossible not to make a war film in where a soldier actually has [b]no[/b] form of comraderie in their group. Unless you cover something about Gomer Pyle.
PErsonally, when I got tired of American patriotic films I moved east. Der Untergang and Stalingrad, then Admiral from Russia, and I have Brotherhood of War and Assembly from Korea and China, respectively, sitting right next to me. I liked war movies not just because of the violence or the patriotism, but because the 'war is hell' theme. I like the genre, just like a sci-fi fan would like sci-fi films. Problem with OP's explanation is that OP is taking something inherent to the genre itself and saying he doesn't like it- and that's fine, there are always mold breakers and new ways of doing things, but war films ultimately mostly have these themes: comradery, honor, war is hell, and patriotism. This is kind of how it works, because these are what war is dependent on in real life.
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