• Deny the rationality of Holocaust, get arrested. Europe 2013.
    15 replies, posted
Is it really the right thing to do? Doesn't this contradict the so called free speech of Europe? As you know, you can get arrested by simply denying the holocaust in European countries such as Austria, Germany, Netherlands, etc. When my friend told me about this, I thought he was joking. [spoiler]He wasn't joking.[/spoiler] Shouldn't it be made legal?
It's no secret that countries like Germany and Austria are rather sensitive about that period of their history. Understandable, really; it's different for them because of the proximity they had to the whole event. Yes, it contradicts the tenet of free speech we hold dear, but it makes sense given the context of these countries. Maybe in the future, when everyone involved with it and everyone who knew someone who was involved with it is dead it will become less taboo, but until then I don't think much harm will come of it.
Well some countries don't have free speech ingrained in law and others decided that things though of as hate speech don't fall under free speech
To be fair it is pretty stupid to deny the holocaust but its also stupid to arrest people over it.
It's pretty bizarre when people get arrested for it. It's like being arrested for saying the sun goes around the earth or that the earth is flat.
[QUOTE=download;39700637]Well some countries don't have free speech ingrained in law and others decided that things though of as hate speech don't fall under free speech[/QUOTE] Simply denying that the holocaust happened is free thought and it's free speech to say it out loud. Saying "fuck the Jews" would be hate speech.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39700677]It's pretty bizarre when people get arrested for it. It's like being arrested for saying the sun goes around the earth or that the earth is flat.[/QUOTE] No it isn't. The Holocaust was a pretty big - and relatively recent - event in which a hell of a lot of people were killed - it's perfectly natural for these countries to be a bit ashamed of it to the point where they don't like it being discussed like this. Granted, it's draconian and I personally don't like it, but the denial of the holocaust is a very very niche thing, so it's not like people all across Germany are thinking it. The fear is that if Germans are seen to be denying the holocaust that its reputation will fall to the point where people start saying "all germans are nazis!". They just want to dissuade the thought that they're not sorry in an admittedly ham-handed way.
[QUOTE=north korea;39700683]Simply denying that the holocaust happened is free thought and it's free speech to say it out loud. Saying "fuck the Jews" would be hate speech.[/QUOTE] Well, some people get offended at the idea that their relatives weren't murdered by Hitler and that it was a Jewish Conspiracy
[QUOTE=download;39700714]Well, some people get offended at the idea that their relatives weren't murdered by Hitler and that it was a Jewish Conspiracy[/QUOTE] So? Everyone gets offended by something. A Circassian would get offended when a Russian denies the Circassian ethnic cleansing, an Armenian would get offended when a Turk denies they were genocided, the list goes on. It's also free speech for you to think that holocaust wasn't a holocaust but a hoax, or something else. You're not trying to offend anyone here, you're simply stating what you actually believe in.
It's not that black and white. You don't get arrested for having a personal opinion that holocaust didn't happen. You can however get arrested if you try to push that agenda and make people believe it. You wanna be a retard? Go ahead. You're trying to turn other people into retards, well better don't.
[QUOTE=north korea;39700746]So? Everyone gets offended by something. A Circassian would get offended when a Russian denies the Circassian ethnic cleansing, an Armenian would get offended when a Turk denies they were genocided, the list goes on. It's also free speech for you to think that holocaust wasn't a holocaust but a hoax, or something else. You're not trying to offend anyone here, you're simply stating what you actually believe in.[/QUOTE] The problem therein is that there is actually evidence (and a whole ton of it at that) that the holocaust happened as the good ol' history books say it did, so denying it isn't plausible. That doesn't mean people should be dragged to jail over it, of course. I'm just pointing out that while it is your right to say the holocaust didn't happen, there is absolutely no way to back that up and you'd look like an idiot for doing it in a court of law.
[QUOTE=Doomish;39701316]The problem therein is that there is actually evidence (and a whole ton of it at that) that the holocaust happened as the good ol' history books say it did, so denying it isn't plausible. That doesn't mean people should be dragged to jail over it, of course. I'm just pointing out that while it is your right to say the holocaust didn't happen, there is absolutely no way to back that up and you'd look like an idiot for doing it in a court of law.[/QUOTE] Do you know what we are debating here?
The fact people are denying it happened concerns me more than the fact they're getting arrested for it...
[QUOTE=north korea;39701448]Do you know what we are debating here?[/QUOTE] Yeah, I do, hence why I said people shouldn't be dragged to jail over their opinion. You specifically mentioned the people out there that think the holocaust is a hoax so I addressed that too.
[QUOTE=Dr. Ethan Asia;39700702]No it isn't. The Holocaust was a pretty big - and relatively recent - event in which a hell of a lot of people were killed - it's perfectly natural for these countries to be a bit ashamed of it to the point where they don't like it being discussed like this. Granted, it's draconian and I personally don't like it, but the denial of the holocaust is a very very niche thing, so it's not like people all across Germany are thinking it. The fear is that if Germans are seen to be denying the holocaust that its reputation will fall to the point where people start saying "all germans are nazis!". They just want to dissuade the thought that they're not sorry in an admittedly ham-handed way.[/QUOTE] No it really is the same. You are saying something, everybody knows you are full of shit, except in holocaust denial you get arrested, whereas for flat-earthism you just get laughed at. Holocaust denialists should be laughed at, not thrown into prison.
I'm not even sure how am I supposed to go about denying the holocaust here.
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