• PETER HITCHENS: We won't save refugees by destroying our own country
    14 replies, posted
[QUOTE]Actually we can’t do what we like with this country. We inherited it from our parents and grandparents and we have a duty to hand it on to our children and grandchildren, preferably improved and certainly undamaged. It is one of the heaviest responsibilities we will ever have. We cannot just give it away to complete strangers on an impulse because it makes us feel good about ourselves. Every one of the posturing notables simpering ‘refugees welcome’ should be asked if he or she will take a refugee family into his or her home for an indefinite period, and pay for their food, medical treatment and education. If so, they mean it. If not, they are merely demanding that others pay and make room so that they can experience a self-righteous glow. No doubt the same people are also sentimental enthusiasts for the ‘living wage’, and ‘social housing’, when in fact open borders are steadily pushing wages down and housing costs up. As William Blake rightly said: ‘He who would do good to another must do it in minute particulars. General good is the plea of the scoundrel, hypocrite and flatterer.’ Britain is a desirable place to live mainly because it is an island, which most people can’t get to. Most of the really successful civilisations survived because they were protected from invasion by mountains, sea, deserts or a combination of these things. Ask the Russians or the Poles what it’s like to live without the shield of the sea. There is no positive word for ‘safety’ in Russian. Their word for security is ‘bezopasnost’ – ‘without danger’.[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/06/00/2C0122D500000578-3223828-image-a-33_1441496816234.jpg[/IMG] Don't just disregard this because it's the Mail, read. [URL="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3223828/PETER-HITCHENS-won-t-save-refugees-destroying-country.html"]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3223828/PETER-HITCHENS-won-t-save-refugees-destroying-country.html[/URL] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Read the rules." - Swebonny))[/highlight]
[quote][B]Britain is a desirable place to live mainly because it is an island, which most people can’t get to.[/B] Most of the really successful civilisations survived because they were protected from invasion by mountains, sea, deserts or a combination of these things. Ask the Russians or the Poles what it’s like to live without the shield of the sea. There is no positive word for ‘safety’ in Russian. Their word for security is ‘bezopasnost’ – ‘without danger’.[/quote] :speechless:
I would like to know what Peter Singer has to say on the matter. His views on African poverty, if a somewhat uncomfortable and quite "edgy"/not so accepted, are indeed, logical. So he must have a thought or answer to what Hitchens has said. [QUOTE]Britain is a desirable place to live mainly because it is an island, which most people can’t get to. Most of the really successful civilisations survived because they were protected from invasion by mountains, sea, deserts or a combination of these things. Ask the Russians or the Poles what it’s like to live without the shield of the sea. There is no positive word for ‘safety’ in Russian. Their word for security is ‘bezopasnost’ – ‘without danger’. [/QUOTE] Like, how....how retarded one has to be to be thnking in 17th-18th century terms and not 21th century terms? Today you aren't in danger of getting invaded by some crazy wacko King from some far land with aspirations to European total power. Today UK is a desirable place to live because of its high standards of life. Unlike say....Russia. *For the refugees EDIT: I would like to point out this when he asks himself if people are willing to host refugees in their houses: [B][B][I]Nor is such generosity limited to Germany. Earlier this week, Iceland made headlines when more than 10,000 people asked their government to take more Syrian refugees than it had pledged to, and offered to open their homes to host them if necessary. Iceland's total population is only about 320,000 people, which means that an astonishing one in 32 citizens personally offered to help. [/I][/B][/B] [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/02/world/europe/iceland-residents-join-on-facebook-to-offer-help-to-refugees.html?_r=0[/url] [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/more-than-11000-icelanders-offer-to-house-syrian-refugees-to-help-european-crisis-10480505.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;48627348]:speechless:[/QUOTE] I literally can't stop laughing, holy shit.
[quote]So now, on the basis of an emotional spasm, dressed up as civilisation and generosity, are we going to say that we abandon this legacy and decline our obligation to pass it on, like the enfeebled, wastrel heirs of an ancient inheritance letting the great house and the estate go to ruin? [/quote] Whole article hinges on this quote And if you ask me I think its complete bollocks and there's no evidence I've seen to support it, only this parroted and misguided belief that we're full and can't sustain any more migrants, that our "infastructure can't cope" that was all originally said by tabloids like the mail Reads like he wants the country to be the spoiled kid that gets to say "I'm not sharing!" despite the fact this is a crisis - he tries to act like it isn't by implying the refugees should all just settle down in Turkey as that's the first place where they won't get shot up, but who the fuck wants to stay there? The quality of life for a refugee would be nothing like if they moved to Germany
[quote]As to what those angry, confident and forceful young men actually are, I’ll leave you to work it out, as I am too afraid of the Thought Police to use what I think is the correct word.[/quote] As to what OP poster as well as the article writers are, I'll leave you to work it out, as I am too afraid of the mods to use what I think is the correct word. [editline]6th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Dr.Critic;48627390]Whole article hinges on this quote And if you ask me I think its complete bollocks and there's no evidence I've seen to support it, only this parroted and misguided belief that we're full and can't sustain any more migrants, that our "infastructure can't cope" that was all originally said by tabloids like the mail Reads like he wants the country to be the spoiled kid that gets to say "I'm not sharing!" despite the fact this is a crisis - he tries to act like it isn't by implying the refugees should all just settle down in Turkey as that's the first place where they won't get shot up, but who the fuck wants to stay there? The quality of life for a refugee would be nothing like if they moved to Germany[/QUOTE] Mainly when the sociological forecast for vast majority of western European countries is "since our native birth rate is low, we will need a healthy fat bit of immigration every year or the populace will grow too old and cave in under the cost of it's own healthcare and social security costs". Please somebody link me an example of a country that got poor because people moved in.
[QUOTE]Mainly when the sociological forecast for vast majority of western European countries is "since our native birth rate is low, we will need a healthy fat bit of immigration every year or the populace will grow too old and cave in under the cost of it's own healthcare and social security costs". Please somebody link me an example of a country that got poor because people moved in. [/QUOTE] The thing, in every standard Macro 1 course, they teach you that a labour supply shock (which in this case, it is, as it changes "L" a lot in so little time. For example, another one could be lowering or raising the retirement age) moves the equilibrium towards lower real wages, and more labour, which in turns raises productivity, which in turns raises savings which in turn etc etc. But, the effect is waaaaay too small because: 1-(The population/inmigrants) is insignificant. It's not like say, 1989 when the wall fell and Germany reunited and then suddenly 20 million guys had to employed somewhere. 2-The "model" effect is only applied to the most basic unskilled jobs. The people emigrating towards Europe are not nuclear physics, or guys from Harvard with MBAs
Also, this is Daily Mail AND an opinion piece. Why do you even post this?
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;48627353] I would like to point out this when he asks himself if people are willing to host refugees in their houses: [B][B][I]Nor is such generosity limited to Germany. Earlier this week, Iceland made headlines when more than 10,000 people asked their government to take more Syrian refugees than it had pledged to, and offered to open their homes to host them if necessary. Iceland's total population is only about 320,000 people, which means that an astonishing one in 32 citizens personally offered to help. [/I][/B][/B] [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/02/world/europe/iceland-residents-join-on-facebook-to-offer-help-to-refugees.html?_r=0[/url] [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/more-than-11000-icelanders-offer-to-house-syrian-refugees-to-help-european-crisis-10480505.html[/url][/QUOTE] Saying that you'd do such a thing on an internet petition is a lot easier than actually doing it. I'm sure a lot of those Icelanders think of these migrants as being women and children when in reality, the majority of them are young Muslim men whose views on women especially would not be tolerated in such a feminist country. Not to mention that most people in Iceland don't have any experience interacting with people from other cultures considering the country is still 99% European, with the only significant amount of immigrants there coming from Poland.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;48627348]:speechless:[/QUOTE] Just ask Hitler :smug:
[QUOTE=elfbarf;48627484]Saying that you'd do such a thing on an internet petition is a lot easier than actually doing it. I'm sure a lot of those Icelanders think of these migrants as being women and children when in reality, the majority of them are young Muslim men whose views on women especially would not be tolerated in such a feminist country. Not to mention that most people in Iceland don't have any experience interacting with people from other cultures considering the country is still 99% European, with the only significant amount of immigrants coming from Poland.[/QUOTE] The cultural clash is too great for any large amount of immigration. A large influx would probably cause a fair bit of tension. If a large group of people approached my neck of the woods with a vastly different way of life, and instead of trying to mix the two or adopt mostly local tendencies and preferred to stick very rigidly to what their used to I would [I]not[/I] take kindly to it in the least. Considering these are refugees and not traditional immigrants, they probably would not merge as much with local tendencies as usual. The fact of the matter is wages would go down as well, since the workforce [which is already fairly overskilled for the cause] would have a lot of people used to or willing to take the bare minimum to get by. I don't know what wages are in Europe, but in the U.S. wealth disparity is partly attributed to lower wages. When someone is used to a certain standard of life they usually want to stick to it. Someone may want a job for 10.10$ but there's so many people fine with just the Federal minimum of what, 7.25$? People coming from the Asian territories would be very happy with the situation while someone local would be barely skimming by. I'm not entirely against letting refugees in, but I'm not one to sell the garage with the car for no extra charge.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;48627393]As to what OP poster as well as the article writers are, I'll leave you to work it out, as I am too afraid of the mods to use what I think is the correct word. [editline]6th September 2015[/editline] Mainly when the sociological forecast for vast majority of western European countries is "since our native birth rate is low, we will need a healthy fat bit of immigration every year or the populace will grow too old and cave in under the cost of it's own healthcare and social security costs". Please somebody link me an example of a country that got poor because people moved in.[/QUOTE] What do you think I am? I posted this for people to read.
[QUOTE=Jame's;48627297][IMG]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/06/00/2C0122D500000578-3223828-image-a-33_1441496816234.jpg[/IMG] Don't just disregard this because it's the Mail, read. [URL="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3223828/PETER-HITCHENS-won-t-save-refugees-destroying-country.html"]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3223828/PETER-HITCHENS-won-t-save-refugees-destroying-country.html[/URL][/QUOTE] This is just a garbage opinion piece, not actual news.
[QUOTE=Jame's;48627697]What do you think I am? I posted this for people to read.[/QUOTE] [IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3843429/ShareX/2015/09/2015-09-06_22-12-41.png[/IMG]
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