Something's boiling at CERN: Press conference concerning Higgs announced
69 replies, posted
[quote=bbc.com]
[B]A respected scientist from the Cern particle physics laboratory has told the BBC he expects to see "the first glimpse" of the Higgs boson next week.[/B]
It comes as the search for the mysterious fundamental particle reaches its endgame.
If so, this will be a significant milestone for teams at the famous Large Hadron Collider (LHC).
The particle-accelerating machine on the French-Swiss border was built with the hunt for the Higgs as a key goal.
The collider smashes beams of protons together in head-on collisions, with signs of the Higgs boson, perhaps, in the debris.
The Higgs boson is notoriously difficult to define, but its existence helps us to understand why particles have mass.
The search for the Higgs has become the hottest pursuit in modern physics. It is separate from the unexpected announcement in September of the apparently faster-than-light neutrinos, a result which is still puzzling the world of physics, and has taken the limelight recently.
[B]'Growing sense of excitement' [/B]
Next Tuesday, two separate teams will each reveal the outcome of trawling through their latest data from LHC collisions. A spokesman for one of these teams told us that this year alone they've searched the remains of some 350 trillion collisions, with only ten or so producing candidates for a reliable sign of the Higgs.
[quote]
[IMG]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/57192000/jpg/_57192392_jex_1257640_de27-1.jpg[/IMG]
Professor John Ellis: "We've been living with Higgs theory now for almost 50 years... it's become our Holy Grail"[/quote]
The two teams of scientists work independently, using two separate detectors - called ATLAS and CMS - each relying on different technologies. This way they provide an independent cross-check for each other. How closely their results agree will be an important measure of how significant a finding they can claim.
The teams are sworn to secrecy, but various physics blogs, and the canteens at Cern, are alive with talk of a possible sighting of the Higgs, and with a mass inline with what many physicists would expect.
The teams have been focussing-in on the Higgs by ruling out energy ranges where it might be lurking. They now expect to see it at around 120 to 125 GeV (gigelectronvolts), where one GeV is about the mass of a proton.
Professor John Ellis, a former head of theoretical physics at Cern, told Newsnight's science editor Susan Watts about the growing sense of excitement at Cern, a week ahead of that key science meeting next Tuesday.
"I think we are going to get the first glimpse. The LHC experiments have already looked high and low for this missing piece. It could be that it weighs several hundred times the proton mass, but that seems very unlikely, then there's a whole intermediate range where we know it cannot be, then there's the low mass range where we actually expect it might be. There seem to be some hints emerging there... and that's what we're going to learn on Tuesday".
Professor Ellis, who is now a guest professor at Cern, and was recently made James Clerk Maxwell professor at King's College, London, told Newsnight that finding the Higgs matters hugely to modern physics.
"What we have at the moment is something we call the Standard Model, that describes all fundamental particle physics. You can think of it as being an enormous giant Jigsaw puzzle, but there's a piece missing right in the middle there. We have been looking for this for 30 years now, and finally, maybe, hidden under the back of the LHC sofa…we are finally finding it".
The teams at Cern will not claim next week's result as an official "discovery" - a so-called 5-sigma event. This is because they have not yet produced enough experimental data to make that claim. That will come next year, probably by the summer.
Journalists are being told to wait for the briefing after next week's scientific meeting, but researchers whom Susan Watts spoke to in the coffee shops of Cern were finding it hard to keep the smiles from their faces.
Understandably perhaps, the director of research at Cern, Sergio Bertolucci, is being more cautious than Professor Ellis. He told me, somewhat enigmatically: "It's too early to say…I think we may get indications that are not consistent with its non-existence." He expects next Tuesday's results to amount to less than the formal definition of "evidence", but said the statistics will be "very interesting".
"I would be very inclined to say just that we will not give anything except an update which will tell people we are on a good path to the discovery."
Mr Bertolucci told Newsnight: "This hunt for the Higgs is like fishing in an ancient way… instead of using modern tools you are removing the water from the pond… it might look tedious but it is the only way, at the end of the day, when you have removed all the water from the pond to find the smallest fish." [/quote]
Src: [URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16074411[/URL]
tl;dr There is going to be a press conference at CERN next tuesday. There are rumours floating around that they nailed the Higgs-Boson down.
Can't wait for tuesday now :dance: Although the director is playing it down, it sounds like the people working at the detectors are very excited.
On the one hand I'm excited as hell, on the other hand I don't want the Higgs to be true... how conflicting.
What a time to be alive.
Maybe they couldn't find it?
[QUOTE=Jookia;33626683]Maybe they couldn't find it?[/QUOTE]
That is not how science works.
Man, there's been a lot of scientific advancements lately. Not that I'm complaining or anything.
I find the picture in the article quite awesome.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;33626699]That is not how science works.[/QUOTE]
[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminiferous_aether]The aether[/url] would like to have a word with you.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;33626832]Soo... if they do find the Higgs Boson.. what does that mean exactly?
Are we gonna have spaceships and infinite energy in a day or something?
Why is it so important?[/QUOTE]
Your kind of people is why companies like NASA have shit all funding now and why in the UK Scientists are struggling for funding.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;33626873]I'd say your kind of people are to blame for being too rude to educate people about things.[/QUOTE]
Quoted so you can't snip your racism.
[QUOTE=Jookia;33626886]Quoted so you can't snip your racism.[/QUOTE]
... What Racism?
I only see him calling the guy out for not straight-up telling him why the Higgs boson is important.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;33626832]Soo... if they do find the Higgs Boson.. what does that mean exactly?
Are we gonna have spaceships and infinite energy in a day or something?
Why is it so important?[/QUOTE]
The Higgs-Boson is thought to be the particle that gives everything its mass. If it doesn't exist, we have no way to explain why you're so heavy with our current model of physics.
So NOT finding it would actually be a bigger deal.
[QUOTE=Simplemac3;33626904]... What Racism?
I only see him calling the guy out for not straight-up telling him why the Higgs boson is important.[/QUOTE]
It was in the context of UK scientists.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;33626978]And when have "UK Scientists" ever been their own race before?[/QUOTE]
North [b]American[/b] Space Agency vs United Kingdom (British).
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Threadshitting/Idiot" - Autumn))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Atlascore;33626873]I'd say your kind of people are to blame for being too rude to educate people about things.
How about instead of being an asshole you just explain why it's so important?[/QUOTE]
I apologise, I misread what you wrote, I thought you said something along the lines of: "Why do we even care about this? We don't even have a use." like has been the criticism by many ignorant people about scientific research the last few decades.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;33626873]I'd say your kind of people are to blame for being too rude to educate people about things.
How about instead of being an asshole you just explain why it's so important?[/QUOTE]
Because knowledge is power.
The discovery of the higgs boson won't change anything in your day to day life, but it will give scientists a lot to work with.
And if they simply don't discover it, they'll have to find new ways to explain what's up with this universe.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;33626978]The guy I quoted isn't even in the UK..
What the fuck are you talking about?
And when have "UK Scientists" ever been their own race before?[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://www.lucidcafe.com/library/images/96feb/darwin.gif[/IMG]
UK Scientist master race!
Why does science have to have any direct practical use in order to justify it?
I'd say furthering our understanding of the physical world is just as important as any sort of space or energy endeavor.
[QUOTE=Led Zeppelin;33627057]Why does science have to have any direct practical use in order to justify it?
I'd say furthering our understanding of the physical world is just as important as any sort of space or energy endeavor.[/QUOTE]
A lot of people deeply disagree with you.
Science?
[QUOTE=Atlascore;33626907]What.
I meant you people as in assholes that refuse to educate people about things, would you kindly point out where I even mentioned race?[/QUOTE]
I guess they don't know. They play smart just to avoid the question.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;33626699]That is not how science works.[/QUOTE]
If they didn't find it, it'll be even more exciting, because they'll pretty much have to rewrite everything. They would indeed come out with the finding of... finding nothing.
somebody mind explaining to me what it means if they find it, and conversely what it means if they don't find it? not the science-y type
[QUOTE=Kung Fu Jew;33627129]somebody mind explaining to me what it means if they find it, and conversely what it means if they don't find it? not the science-y type[/QUOTE]
If they find it, it'll verify the Standard Model of particle physics, which is the best theory for how subatomic particles work that we currently have, plus we'll have a verified mechanism for how all the other particles get mass.
If not, the Standard Model will fall apart (or have to be heavily modified) and many (currently minor) competing theories may step up to fill the void.
Basically, everything we know in Physics is tied to a particle as a "carrier", light and EM fields have the photon and so on.
These carriers need to have no mass for the Math to work but in fact, we have proven they have.
So there needs to be this Higgs Boson(actually more than one) to serve as an explanation to the mass we see. Because we THINK that we only see a part of the picture and the Higgs would complete that, making our Math consistent in itself.
alright
so it's nothing about infinite speed travel or infinite energy production like all these weirdos are talking about?
nah, that stuff is almost certainly bullshit
[editline]8th December 2011[/editline]
faster than light travel breaks relativity and infinite energy breaks... everything
[QUOTE=Turnips5;33627343]nah, that stuff is almost certainly bullshit
[editline]8th December 2011[/editline]
faster than light travel breaks relativity and infinite energy breaks... everything[/QUOTE]
There is nothing that says that FTL travel can't exist.
The problem is that with acceleration you have to pass through every value of speed, so that means you have to pass through 3*10^8 m/s, but that is impossible with current knowledge, and therefore [I]getting to[/I] FTL speeds is thought of as impossible, but if you were somehow possible to skip directly to speeds that are faster than c, you could do it fine. You might have to deal with negative time dilatation then, but, that's another story.
[QUOTE=Kendra;33627422]There is nothing that says that FTL travel can't exist.
The problem is that with acceleration you have to pass through every value of speed, so that means you have to pass through 3*10^8 m/s, but that is impossible with current knowledge, and therefore [I]getting to[/I] FTL speeds is thought of as impossible, but if you were somehow possible to skip directly to speeds that are faster than c, you could do it fine. You might have to deal with negative time dilatation then, but, that's another story.[/QUOTE]
For any object with a mass, getting over the speed of light requires infinite energy (with traditional propulsion methods anyway) and that would break everything.
[QUOTE=Kendra;33627422]There is nothing that says that FTL travel can't exist.
The problem is that with acceleration you have to pass through every value of speed, so that means you have to pass through 3*10^8 m/s, but that is impossible with current knowledge, and therefore [I]getting to[/I] FTL speeds is thought of as impossible, but if you were somehow possible to skip directly to speeds that are faster than c, you could do it fine. You might have to deal with negative time dilatation then, but, that's another story.[/QUOTE]
I know. All that shit is also almost certainly impossible, therefore (as I said) FTL is almost certainly impossible. Thanks for clarifying though.
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