• Microsoft reverses its decision, VS2012 Express will allow devs to create desktop applications.
    27 replies, posted
[QUOTE=S. Somasegar at MSDN]With Visual Studio 2012, we strive to provide the best development experience across all Microsoft platforms. This includes enabling developers to bring to life the richness of Windows desktop applications - whether you are learning to build your first app or whether you’ve been developing on Microsoft platforms for many years. A few weeks ago, we shared our plans for the Express editions of Visual Studio 2012. As we've worked to deliver the best experience with Visual Studio for our platforms with Windows 8, Windows Phone, and for Web and Windows Azure, we heard from our community that developers want to have for Windows desktop development the same great experience and access to the latest Visual Studio 2012 features at the Express level. [B]Today, I’m happy to announce that we will add Visual Studio Express 2012 for Windows Desktop to the Visual Studio 2012 family.[/B] This will bring to the Visual Studio Express family significant new capabilities that we’ve made available in Visual Studio 2012 for building great desktop applications. [B]Adhering to the core principles we’ve set for our Express products, Visual Studio Express 2012 for Windows Desktop will provide a simple, end-to-end development experience for developing Windows desktop applications targeted to run on all versions of Windows supported by Visual Studio 2012. With this new Express edition, developers will be able to use C++, C#, or Visual Basic to create Windows desktop and console applications. [/B] Developers will also get access to new advances available across the Express family in Visual Studio 2012, such as the latest compilers and programming language tools, integrated unit testing, and the ability for small development teams to collaborate via Team Explorer and TFS Express. Planned for release in the fall, Visual Studio Express 2012 for Windows Desktop will provide a great learning environment for students and other new developers getting started. It will enable a friction-free solution for existing developers to bring their desktop apps forward with the latest toolsets. And it will enable developers working on open source applications to target existing and previous versions of Windows. Desktop development has always been a core part of Windows. With Visual Studio 2012, we continue to extend those desktop development capabilities and provide a great development experience for developers building desktop applications. Namaste! Somasegar[/QUOTE] Source: [url]http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/06/08/visual-studio-express-2012-for-windows-desktop.aspx[/url]
Hopefully they'll give us the start button back, too.
[img]http://puu.sh/zEnK[/img]
[QUOTE=cccritical;36252191]Hopefully they'll give us the start button back, too.[/QUOTE] I hope so, users need a visual indication of "if I put my mouse there, shit will happen" most people are going to see the missing start button and sit there like a lemon.
[QUOTE=inconspicious;36252208]I hope so, users need a visual indication of "if I put my mouse there, shit will happen" most people are going to see the missing start button and sit there like a lemon.[/QUOTE] That's probably my biggest complaint about 8. Things are hidden when they shouldn't be.
[QUOTE=Panda X;36252231]That's probably my biggest complaint about 8. Things are hidden when they shouldn't be.[/QUOTE] Its like android < 4 again, common functionality tucked away in little menus waiting for you to look for it.
[QUOTE=The golden;36252338]It's like Gnome 3 for linux. I don't know how it is now, but on launch it was over-simplified to the point where things such as the minimize-window button and the power-control button (log off, restart, shut down) were disabled.[/QUOTE] The lead dev's got hazed to hell and back for that.
[QUOTE=Panda X;36252231]That's probably my biggest complaint about 8. Things are hidden when they shouldn't be.[/QUOTE] uh okay I feel like we should look [I]beyond[/I] the first five minutes with a computer. I don't think we should design the OS around getting someone to figure it out in one second when it would totally suffice to have a one-time pop-up tip bubble or something. The first five minutes last only as long as the first five minutes, we should instead design the OS around the next years during which it will be used. Another thing: just because the start button has existed forever doesn't mean it's the best way to do things. I think that the old Start menu was kinda outdated. Just because I was used to it doesn't mean that I will violently resist any development- I've gotten totally used to using the Windows key to bring up the Start menu. That said, Metro apps are shit and Microsoft [I]has[/I] done a lot of shit wrong. The total removal of the Start button (just the button) is an error. I'm sure we can agree on that.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;36255080]uh okay I feel like we should look [I]beyond[/I] the first five minutes with a computer. I don't think we should design the OS around getting someone to figure it out in one second when it would totally suffice to have a one-time pop-up tip bubble or something. The first five minutes last only as long as the first five minutes, we should instead design the OS around the next years during which it will be used. Another thing: just because the start button has existed forever doesn't mean it's the best way to do things. I think that the old Start menu was kinda outdated. Just because I was used to it doesn't mean that I will violently resist any development- I've gotten totally used to using the Windows key to bring up the Start menu. That said, Metro apps are shit and Microsoft [I]has[/I] done a lot of shit wrong. I'm sure we can agree on that.[/QUOTE] Metro apps are great, windows has its place on tablets, windows is now usable as a media OS on a large screen, and now we have a clear and distinct UI style to follow. Although I give it all of a month after launch before people shit it up with apps made in Ms paint.
[QUOTE=inconspicious;36252208]I hope so, users need a visual indication of "if I put my mouse there, shit will happen" most people are going to see the missing start button and sit there like a lemon.[/QUOTE] Combustible users! Edit: So that's why Aperture Science turns people's blood into pure gasoline! It all makes sense now.
[QUOTE=inconspicious;36255125]Metro apps are great, windows has its place on tablets, windows is now usable as a media OS on a large screen, and now we have a clear and distinct UI style to follow. Although I give it all of a month after launch before people shit it up with apps made in Ms paint.[/QUOTE] I meant that Metro apps are shit on desktops, which make up the majority of the market, despite what Microsoft seems to imagine. On tablets sure. I'll never have a tablet though.
They should at least wean people away from the start button. Like maybe in Windows 8 have an easier way to do the same things you would in the menu, but still have it there. And then maybe get rid of it in Windows 9 or whatever.
[QUOTE=Elecbullet;36255163]I meant that Metro apps are shit on desktops, which make up the majority of the market, despite what Microsoft seems to imagine. On tablets sure. I'll never have a tablet though.[/QUOTE] I quite like the metro email app, its quick and easy on the eyes compared to outlook. The metro interface is for when I want to casually check something. I hop back to the desktop for real work.
The windows key is simply the most useful button on a keyboard. Want to change monitors? Win+P. Find system info? Win+Printscreen. All kindsa shit. Open the run box? Win+R.
Well I'm glad to see this is happening. Although the current VS is fantastic it IS still nice to know that VS 2012 Express will still allow people to compile desktop programs.
And here I thought Microsoft had gone off the deep end. It's good to see they didn't tie the best C++ IDE into a speculative programming niche for an OS that hasn't even come out.
Well, it's a [i]start[/i].
Thank god, I thought they've lost their mind over the metro craze. At least now express is not useless.
I don't want to have to use a tutorial to figure out my computer. It should be alike enough as the older versions for me to understand. It's just silly to completely change your OS after it's been alike in every single version for the past 17 years.
[QUOTE=Nukefuzz;36256397]I don't want to have to use a tutorial to figure out my computer. It should be alike enough as the older versions for me to understand. It's just silly to completely change your OS after it's been alike in every single version for the past 17 years.[/QUOTE] If everyone had an attitude like that, nothing would ever change as new things require "tutorials" to understand.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;36256508]If everyone had an attitude like that, nothing would ever change as new things require "tutorials" to understand.[/QUOTE] I completely disagree, things can be figured out just by using them - a guide can help something otherwise archaic be quick and concise, like a console menu - but better design shouldn't NEED a guide. I don't really understand all the bitching about them removing the start menu though. Honestly the new "Metro" theme is just a massive full screen start menu with bigger tiles that can have functionality displaying on the tiles - it's not like they removed the start menu, it's just different now.
[QUOTE=Elspin;36257117]I don't really understand all the bitching about them removing the start menu though. Honestly the new "Metro" theme is just a massive full screen start menu with bigger tiles that can have functionality displaying on the tiles - it's not like they removed the start menu, it's just different now.[/QUOTE] I just don't want them to fuck with the layout of my desktop to be more like that of a Mac. I like the layout of my keyboard I have right now, it's the way Windows have always been and the way I prefer it to stay. [editline]9th June 2012[/editline] This Metro shit is about as exciting of a feature as Kinect, which is to say forced gimmick shit that prevents me to enjoying my product the way I want to.
[QUOTE=Elspin;36257117]I completely disagree, things can be figured out just by using them - a guide can help something otherwise archaic be quick and concise, like a console menu - but better design shouldn't NEED a guide. I don't really understand all the bitching about them removing the start menu though. Honestly the new "Metro" theme is just a massive full screen start menu with bigger tiles that can have functionality displaying on the tiles - it's not like they removed the start menu, it's just different now.[/QUOTE] The problem is that it's fullscreen and the icons and shit are big and take up a lot of space.
[QUOTE=Nukefuzz;36256397]I don't want to have to use a tutorial to figure out my computer. It should be alike enough as the older versions for me to understand. It's just silly to completely change your OS after it's been alike in every single version for the past 17 years.[/QUOTE] Going by your logic, we should then still be stuck on command-line based UIs. [editline]9th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Simski;36257263] I like the layout of my keyboard I have right now, it's the way Windows have always been and the way I prefer it to stay.[/QUOTE] Who says the layout will change? They're not ditching the Start key.
[QUOTE=barttool;36259604]They're not ditching the Start key.[/QUOTE] They did. Whatever the thing that uses metro is called is not start menu. Otherwise tablet screen by default is start menu? That's funny.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;36260083]They did. Whatever the thing that uses metro is called is not start menu. Otherwise tablet screen by default is start menu? That's funny.[/QUOTE] It's the start menu 2.0. Except it's fullscreen instead of 1/16 of the screen while displaying less information and it visually doesn't fit in with the rest of the OS. The whole OS has small, detailed, non-rectangular icons everywhere and suddenly one single menu looks completely different with huge solid-color rectangles with text. If they want to use Metro, EVERYTHING has to use Metro, but in a way that makes it more usable on desktops than Aero, not less.
[QUOTE=Nikota;36252195][img]http://puu.sh/zEnK[/img][/QUOTE] I really dislike that key. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/BepuD.jpg[/IMG] Its more of a nuisance to me. Glad they reversed that decision, although I'm still not expecting much else to change.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.