• In defence of The Division's bullet sponges, there are none.
    30 replies, posted
[url]http://www.pcgamesn.com/tom-clancys-the-division/in-defence-of-the-divisions-bullet-sponges[/url]
[quote]With four players opening fire at once, a handful of headshot-able goons are going to be gone before anybody’s so much as grunted down their headset.[/quote] And yet there are tons of coop games which are plenty of fun and don't involve bullet sponges. i.e. literally any other Tom Clancy game.
If all 4 players have to fire at 1 goon, it's probably bad game design. You cooperate to take down multiple enemies, flanking, distracting and so on. Not all stand and headshot 1 guy. People actually get paid to write this shit?
[QUOTE=Sharker;50047182]And yet there are tons of coop games which are plenty of fun and don't involve bullet sponges. i.e. literally any other Tom Clancy game.[/QUOTE] Agreed, while The Division is fun, the very arcade gunplay is detrimental to the game, adds no substance, and only serves to cause a greater divide between players due to gear grinding, instead of actual skill.
Yeah I got to level 30 and now it's all RNG hoping that when you craft guns you get a good roll and shooting enemies in the head 40 times. Not very entertaining or rewarding.
The way I see it (and I think a lot of people have brought this up too) is there needs to be a lore/setting justification for bullet-sponge and high health enemies. Dark Souls for example has high health bosses but they're all within a fantasy setting and are also supernaturally powered. The Division has fuckers with zip up jackets and trucker hats. Come on, gameplay mechanics tend to clash with world building, it's a thing that happens all the time, but if it's [I]this[/I] noticeable then maybe the devs should reevaluate one of those things before moving forward with development? Also it's boring as hell to play. No one wants to be spending time in a modern realistic setting impotently emptying entire magazines into the fucking guy who lives across the street.
Basically making challenging gameplay and AI is haaaarrrrd so just gate difficulty behind grinding for gear and make all enemies take forever to kill Some people like that but it's not worth defending with made up game theory
Bullet sponge enemies are terrible, and they're doubly terrible in a game set in a realistic world.
It's an RPG, numbers count more than skill.
I know splinter cell blacklist had some pretty beefy guys, but it made sense. One shot to break the helmet and briefly stun. The second for the kill. Riot shields in CS. Rainbow six had similar things. But they made sense realistically and increased the required skill level by not only requiring you to shoot a specific area to get a one shot kill, but shoot a specific area to get a kill at all.
I take it that they took inspiration from group/party centric MMOs for this. Like how early game in Final Fantasy 11 amounts to 4+ people to take down a single crab/bee/worm/etc.
Wouldn't bullet sponge enemies be even harder to kill in a game like this since every enemy is human sized instead of being a giant monster or alien with a glowing spot on its backside?
I've seen at least 5 articles telling me why people are wrong for not liking the divison. So what? I enjoyed the game, doesn't mean everyone else should.
[QUOTE=Lucien1337;50048332]The way I see it (and I think a lot of people have brought this up too) is there needs to be a lore/setting justification for bullet-sponge and high health enemies. Dark Souls for example has high health bosses but they're all within a fantasy setting and are also supernaturally powered. The Division has fuckers with zip up jackets and trucker hats. Come on, gameplay mechanics tend to clash with world building, it's a thing that happens all the time, but if it's [I]this[/I] noticeable then maybe the devs should reevaluate one of those things before moving forward with development? Also it's boring as hell to play. No one wants to be spending time in a modern realistic setting impotently emptying entire magazines into the fucking guy who lives across the street.[/QUOTE] It would fit the game world a lot more if combat really was cutthroat akin to Redux mod for Call of Pripyat. Enemies can die in a few shots and so can you.
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;50050169]It's an RPG, numbers count more than skill.[/QUOTE] It's got more shoot-y focused gameplay and it's not really that good of an RPG. So it's kinda just a medicore RPG and a medicore shooter.
[QUOTE=cdr248;50055984]It's got more shoot-y focused gameplay and it's not really that good of an RPG. So it's kinda just a medicore RPG and a medicore shooter.[/QUOTE] it's being called a "Looter shooter"
[QUOTE=Lucien1337;50048332]The way I see it (and I think a lot of people have brought this up too) is there needs to be a lore/setting justification for bullet-sponge and high health enemies. Dark Souls for example has high health bosses but they're all within a fantasy setting and are also supernaturally powered. The Division has fuckers with zip up jackets and trucker hats. Come on, gameplay mechanics tend to clash with world building, it's a thing that happens all the time, but if it's [I]this[/I] noticeable then maybe the devs should reevaluate one of those things before moving forward with development? Also it's boring as hell to play. No one wants to be spending time in a modern realistic setting impotently emptying entire magazines into the fucking guy who lives across the street.[/QUOTE] my trendy cotton scarf gives me 50% bullet resistance.
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;50057244]it's being called a "Looter shooter"[/QUOTE] Since that's literally all you do it fits. Although you shoot to get better loot so you can shoot more. If they had eye-for-an-eye type combat or just anything besides bullet sponges that'd break the false RPG visage they've got going on.
If you guys didn't like it you shouldn't have voted with your dollar in the first place. A lot of you have already paid them off, the marketing clearly worked..
Actually, the fact that it takes so many hits to kill a basic low-level enemy is the #1 reason I haven't bought the game yet. I saw the beta, went "that looks neat, but damn those enemies are more spongey than Skyrim on Legendary"
[QUOTE=gk99;50058490]Actually, the fact that it takes so many hits to kill a basic low-level enemy is the #1 reason I haven't bought the game yet. I saw the beta, went "that looks neat, but damn those enemies are more spongey than Skyrim on Legendary"[/QUOTE]It actually doesn't take all that much to kill them, especially if your gear keeps up with your level. And if you've got particularly good gear, even similarly matched purple enemies will go down pretty quick. Only challenge mode enemies will be sponges universally.
[QUOTE=Lucien1337;50048332]The way I see it (and I think a lot of people have brought this up too) is there needs to be a lore/setting justification for bullet-sponge and high health enemies. Dark Souls for example has high health bosses but they're all within a fantasy setting and are also supernaturally powered. The Division has fuckers with zip up jackets and trucker hats. Come on, gameplay mechanics tend to clash with world building, it's a thing that happens all the time, but if it's [I]this[/I] noticeable then maybe the devs should reevaluate one of those things before moving forward with development? Also it's boring as hell to play. No one wants to be spending time in a modern realistic setting impotently emptying entire magazines into the fucking guy who lives across the street.[/QUOTE] except its an RPG, the FO series has plenty of bullet sponge type enemies that are completely human. [editline]3rd April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=gk99;50058490]Actually, the fact that it takes so many hits to kill a basic low-level enemy is the #1 reason I haven't bought the game yet. I saw the beta, went "that looks neat, but damn those enemies are more spongey than Skyrim on Legendary"[/QUOTE] except they are not really like that, the challenging difficulty is literally the only one that has sponge enemies. Right now if you build correctly common and purple enemies are extremely fragile and go down with 10 shots or a headshot with a sniper. This goes with literally every RPG ever made.
[QUOTE=codemaster85;50059418] except they are not really like that, the challenging difficulty is literally the only one that has sponge enemies. Right now if you build correctly common and purple enemies are extremely fragile and go down with 10 shots or a headshot with a sniper. This goes with literally every RPG ever made.[/QUOTE] Purple enemies going down with a headshot? I dunno what game you playing but I can't oneshot them with a 55k+ mosin, much less the semiauto DMRs that do even less. Then again the enemy health does go up according to amount of players in the mission. You might be able to do it on medium solo, but 3 man (or full group) hard you can't. And in fallout, you've got suspension of disbelief due to not basing it's world in reality, but an alternate universe with power armors and other sci-fi armors.
[QUOTE=Tophat;50057624]If you guys didn't like it you shouldn't have voted with your dollar in the first place. A lot of you have already paid them off, the marketing clearly worked..[/QUOTE] I liked it because of the game, not the marketing. Actually the marketing was pretty weak imo.
[QUOTE=codemaster85;50059418]except its an RPG, the FO series has plenty of bullet sponge type enemies that are completely human. [editline]3rd April 2016[/editline] except they are not really like that, the challenging difficulty is literally the only one that has sponge enemies. Right now if you build correctly common and purple enemies are extremely fragile and go down with 10 shots or a headshot with a sniper. This goes with literally every RPG ever made.[/QUOTE] A lot of low level enemies in NV can go down extremely easily with mostly the higher level ones being the perpetrators. Bulletsponging is only a problem when it get applied to the more common or low threat enemies.
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;50050169]It's an RPG, numbers count more than skill.[/QUOTE] What skill?
[QUOTE=Ilwrath;50059552]And in fallout, you've got suspension of disbelief due to not basing it's world in reality, but an alternate universe with power armors and other sci-fi armors.[/QUOTE] Despite all that, in Fallout 4 the [B]Human[/B] enemies are very easy to kill, you have to literally nerf your damage going to Very Hard/Survival mode then finding a legendary before it comes anywhere close to The Division. And Survival is getting reworked to be high risk / high reward, if Bethesda could figure out why bullet sponges were bad no reason this game can't have a bit of a rework.
[QUOTE=meharryp;50055393]I've seen at least 5 articles telling me why people are wrong for not liking the divison. So what? I enjoyed the game, doesn't mean everyone else should.[/QUOTE] Obviously they are being payed to praise a shit game.
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;50050169]It's an RPG, numbers count more than skill.[/QUOTE] It's less of an RPG than Fallout 4, and I'd almost call it a stretch to call Fallout 4 an RPG.
It's not an RPG, just because it has numbers that go higher with progression.
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