• NYPD targeting Muslims for surveillance--across state lines
    39 replies, posted
"Documents expose NYPD 'mosque crawlers,'" by Al Jazeera for Al Jazeera English, 24 February 2012 Source: [url]http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2012/02/2012224193333119186.html[/url] [quote][B]The New York Police Department (NYPD) has targeted Muslim places of worship using tactics normally reserved for criminal organisations, according to newly obtained police documents.[/B] The files, obtained by the Associated Press news agency, show [B]police collecting license plates of worshippers, monitoring them on surveillance cameras and cataloguing sermons[/B] via an informant network. New York City Mayor, Michael Bloomberg, using the 1993 bombings of the World Trade Center as a precedent, called the secret operation monitoring Muslims was "legal,'' "appropriate'' and "constitutional'' on Friday. "We cannot let our guard down again. We cannot slack in our vigilance. The threat was real. The threat is real. The threat is not going away'', said Bloomberg. NYPD spokesman, Paul Browne, also defended the tactics, telling reporters a day earlier, that the [B]New York Police Departments' officers may go wherever the public goes and collect intelligence, even outside city limits[/B]. The records, prepared for Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly, offer the first glimpse of what those informants, known informally as "mosque crawlers," gleaned from inside the houses of worship. As part of the monitoring scheme, the [B]NYPD used plainclothes officers from the squad known as the Demographics Unit, to sweep Muslim neighbourhoods and catalogue the location of mosques. The ethnic makeup of each congregation was also logged as police fanned out across the city and outside their jurisdiction, into suburban Long Island and areas of neighbouring New Jersey.[/B] "It seems horrible to me that the NYPD is treating an entire religious community as potential terrorists,'' said civil rights lawyer Jethro Eisenstein, who reviewed some of the documents and is involved in a decades-old class-action lawsuit against the police department for spying on protesters and political dissidents. Al Jazeera's Cath Turner, reporting live from Patterson, New Jersey, where a local mosque has been targeted by the NYPD, said the Muslim community of New Jersey, "feel betrayed by the NYPD because they say they are citizens in this country and go about living their lives and feel they have been vilified based soley because of their religion". In every mosque [B]David Cohen, the NYPD's top intelligence officer, wanted a source inside every mosque within a 250-mile radius of New York, current and former officials said.[/B] Though the officials said they never managed to reach that goal, documents show the NYPD successfully placed informants or undercovers, sometimes both, into mosques from Westchester County, New York, to New Jersey. The NYPD used these sources to get a sense of the sentiment of worshippers whenever an event generated headlines. The goal, former officials said, was to alert police to potential problems before they bubbled up. [B]Even when it was clear there were no links to terrorism, the mosque informants gave the NYPD the ability to "take the pulse'' of the community, as Cohen and other managers put it.[/B] When New York Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle and his flight instructor were killed on October 11, 2006, after their small plane crashed into a Manhattan bulding, the NYPD's mosque crawlers reported to police about what they heard at sermons and among worshippers though terrorism was ruled out as a cause hours after the crash. At the Brooklyn Islamic Centre, a confidential informant "noted chatter among the regulars expressing relief and thanks to God that the crash was only an accident and not an act of terrorism", one report reads. "The worshippers made remarks to the effect that 'it better be an accident; we don't need any more heat,'" an undercover officer reported from the Al-Tawheed Islamic Centre in Jersey City, New Jersey. In some instances, the NYPD put cameras on light poles and trained them on mosques, documents show. Because the cameras were in public space, police didn't need a warrant to conduct the surveillance. Police also wrote down the license plates of cars in mosque parking lots, documents show. In some instances, police in unmarked cars outfitted with electronic license plate readers would drive down the street and record the plates of everyone parked near the mosque, former officials recalled. "They're viewing Muslims like they're crazy. They're terrorists. They all must be fanatics", said Abdul Akbar Mohammed, the imam for the past eight years at the Masjid Imam Ali K. Muslim in Newark. "That's not right."[/quote] This is just sad. I really don't even know what to say in the face of such bigotry and irrational fear towards a predominantly peaceful religion. Honestly I just hope that these Muslim people being monitored are aware that these sentiments are not shared by the majority of Americans, and most have no problem with them practicing their religion in peace. It's incredibly pathetic that they seem to genuinely believe that stalking these innocent people will somehow prevent a terrorist attack. And in a city like New York, they could be catching real criminals instead of spying on innocent civilians. What a huge waste of time and resources. And tax payers have to pay for this bullshit!
yea make sure those gay communist muslim nazis dont destroy 'murrica
[img]http://s1-05.twitpicproxy.com/photos/full/524166066.png?key=662394[/img] This was on the New York Post yesterday
I have no strong feelings one way or the other. [editline] [/editline] Meh, fuck it, seeing as the NYPD is corrupt as fuck and they're wasting taxpayer money on purpose on this. Well, fuck this then.
Wasn't the percentage of Islamic attacks in the US from a period of 1980 to 2005 something like 6%?
There is only one solution: Give North Jersey to NYC. It's basically theirs already. And South Jersey would not mind them going :v:
[QUOTE=Starpluck;34893891][img]http://s1-05.twitpicproxy.com/photos/full/524166066.png?key=662394[/img] This was on the New York Post yesterday[/QUOTE] Associated Press Press?
[QUOTE=Starpluck;34893891][img]http://s1-05.twitpicproxy.com/photos/full/524166066.png?key=662394[/img] This was on the New York Post yesterday[/QUOTE] Yup, muslims are all hurf durf terrorists, right?
[QUOTE=The Baconator;34894617]Associated Press Press?[/QUOTE] They're terrorist muslims, obviously they are mentally retarded and illiterate :v:
[QUOTE=Cowabanga;34894634]Yup, muslims are all hurf durf terrorists, right?[/QUOTE] Yes.
I wonder if the police chief of New York is a bigoted moron who is so fearful of Muslims that he/she approves of this action?
Before anyone goes and blames the entire US police, like I've seen some people do, its [B][I]NY[/I][/B]PD, the most corrupt and bigoted police force.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;34893891][img]http://s1-05.twitpicproxy.com/photos/full/524166066.png?key=662394[/img] This was on the New York Post yesterday[/QUOTE] well at least they're not trying to hide being a bunch of racists.
[QUOTE=Cowabanga;34894634]Yup, muslims are all hurf durf terrorists, right?[/QUOTE] Yes they are. They're an alien religion race that has secretly come to take over our world and destroy our civilization, then make us slaves.
[QUOTE=Garik;34893996]I have no strong feelings one way or the other.[/QUOTE] wow you have no strong feelings about the NYPD wasting time spying on innocent american citizens because of their religion? seems like something you might be rather upset by but apparently matters of privacy and decency aren't of much importance when you aren't being directly targeted
[QUOTE=SatansSin;34894729]Yes they are. They're an alien religion race that has secretly come to take over our world and destroy our civilization, then make us slaves.[/QUOTE] Well that's quite interesting.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;34893891][img]http://s1-05.twitpicproxy.com/photos/full/524166066.png?key=662394[/img] This was on the New York Post yesterday[/QUOTE] New York Post is like our equivalent of the Sun/Daily Mail.
Does the american media thinks all Muslims wear turbans and have long beards? Seriously. If a real extremist were to attack america again, they would obvious not wear such clothing. They probably have a smooth shaven face, wear western clothing and use english name instead of arabic ones and probably drink alcoholic beverages and pretend to be in the Christian or Jewish faith to throw airport security and common policemen off guard. What are the chances of a real terrorist dressed up like a common westerner and behaving like one coming into the US compare to a stereo typical looking middle eastern man? Oh and they probably would not try to looked like Russians either. If there is one thing we should all learn is to avoid stereotypes because a real spy or terrorist would look like a common ordinary citizen or a tourist.
[QUOTE=BCell;34895306]Does the american media thinks all Muslims wear turbans and have long beards? Seriously. If a real extremist were to attack america again, they would obvious not wear such clothing. They probably have a smooth shaven face, wear western clothing and use english name instead of arabic ones and probably drink alcoholic beverages and pretend to be in the Christian or Jewish faith to throw airport security and common policemen off guard. What are the chances of a real terrorist dressed up like a common westerner and behaving like one coming into the US compare to a stereo typical looking middle eastern man? Oh and they probably would not try to looked like Russians either. If there is one thing we should all learn is to avoid stereotypes because a real spy or terrorist would look like a common ordinary citizen or a tourist.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125677249132814537.html"]Oh Really.[/URL] [IMG]http://cloud.frontpagemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/detroit1.jpg[/IMG]
This sounds really terrible, and I was annoyed at first glance, but the more I think about it, the more ridiculous being angry about it is. Muslims are by no means all terrorists or mostly terrorists or anything remotely similar. However, the terrorist factions which attack the US in recent years ARE Muslim in nature, so putting feelers into the community to hunt for terrorist recruiters makes sense. So long as they don't violate their rights or start getting warrants and such based solely on the fact that they are Muslim, then it is good police work, not some kind of violation of their rights. I can't say that I would be pleased if the police started looking into me for my religious affiliations, but I would be far more annoyed at the people who made it a problem in the first place by blowing shit up. I'd put good money on the FBI having done this for a decade.
[QUOTE=BCell;34895306]Does the american media thinks all Muslims wear turbans and have long beards? Seriously. If a real extremist were to attack america again, they would obvious not wear such clothing. They probably have a smooth shaven face, wear western clothing and use english name instead of arabic ones and probably drink alcoholic beverages and pretend to be in the Christian or Jewish faith to throw airport security and common policemen off guard. What are the chances of a real terrorist dressed up like a common westerner and behaving like one coming into the US compare to a stereo typical looking middle eastern man? Oh and they probably would not try to looked like Russians either. If there is one thing we should all learn is to avoid stereotypes because a real spy or terrorist would look like a common ordinary citizen or a tourist.[/QUOTE] They look like that for religious reasons don't they? They won't get their virgins if they break the rules.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;34895062]New York Post is like our equivalent of the Sun/Daily Mail.[/QUOTE] The NY Times is way better.
[QUOTE=GunFox;34896141]This sounds really terrible, and I was annoyed at first glance, but the more I think about it, the more ridiculous being angry about it is. Muslims are by no means all terrorists or mostly terrorists or anything remotely similar. However, the terrorist factions which attack the US in recent years ARE Muslim in nature, so putting feelers into the community to hunt for terrorist recruiters makes sense. So long as they don't violate their rights or start getting warrants and such based solely on the fact that they are Muslim, then it is good police work, not some kind of violation of their rights. I can't say that I would be pleased if the police started looking into me for my religious affiliations, but I would be far more annoyed at the people who made it a problem in the first place by blowing shit up. I'd put good money on the FBI having done this for a decade.[/QUOTE] but this means that muslims are going to be disproportionately targeted by the police, and since there are always going to be a few wrongful convictions no matter how good the justice system is, there is going to be a disproportionately large number of innocent muslims imprisoned. it doesn't matter if it's a sound idea on paper, the end effect of this is that it's going to make it harder to be a muslim in america. it's exactly like the law in arizona that allowed police to request proof of citizenship. from an abstract legal sense, there's nothing discriminatory about it, but in practice it is highly discriminatory and in the end is just another example of the police treating a minority as if every one of it's members were criminals.
[QUOTE=BCell;34895306]Does the american media thinks all Muslims wear turbans and have long beards? Seriously. If a real extremist were to attack america again, they would obvious not wear such clothing. They probably have a smooth shaven face, wear western clothing and use english name instead of arabic ones and probably drink alcoholic beverages and pretend to be in the Christian or Jewish faith to throw airport security and common policemen off guard. What are the chances of a real terrorist dressed up like a common westerner and behaving like one coming into the US compare to a stereo typical looking middle eastern man? Oh and they probably would not try to looked like Russians either. If there is one thing we should all learn is to avoid stereotypes because a real spy or terrorist would look like a common ordinary citizen or a tourist.[/QUOTE] Reminded me of that stupid Ron White skit about the old alert levels. [video=youtube;ob2y2J6LtRg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob2y2J6LtRg#=1m11s[/video] Yes, we think all muslims have long beards and turbans, and the terrorists have seven h's in their name and baskets of fucking cobras. And yeah, if they came on a plane looking like [IMG]http://sheldonbrown.org/images/johndeere.jpg[/IMG] nobody would give them a second look.
[QUOTE=Gundevil;34895572][URL="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125677249132814537.html"]Oh Really.[/URL] [IMG]http://cloud.frontpagemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/detroit1.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] I wouldn't suspect him of being a terrorist, he looks like such a nerd.
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;34894015]Wasn't the percentage of Islamic attacks in the US from a period of 1980 to 2005 something like 6%?[/QUOTE] Two. In europe it was less than one. [editline]27th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Garik;34893996]I have no strong feelings one way or the other. [editline] [/editline] Meh, fuck it, seeing as the NYPD is corrupt as fuck and they're wasting taxpayer money on purpose on this. Well, fuck this then.[/QUOTE] First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;34897659]but this means that muslims are going to be disproportionately targeted by the police, and since there are always going to be a few wrongful convictions no matter how good the justice system is, there is going to be a disproportionately large number of innocent muslims imprisoned. it doesn't matter if it's a sound idea on paper, the end effect of this is that it's going to make it harder to be a muslim in america. it's exactly like the law in arizona that allowed police to request proof of citizenship. from an abstract legal sense, there's nothing discriminatory about it, but in practice it is highly discriminatory and in the end is just another example of the police treating a minority as if every one of it's members were criminals.[/QUOTE] It is absolutely nothing like the law in Arizona. The Arizona law is based on appearance entirely and permits police to violate your rights by effectively searching your person at any time. This is not a law. This isn't anything. This is proactive police work. Even assuming they will wrongfully convict people, the alternative is that they continue wrongfully convicting minorities. The police are going to be doing SOMETHING with their time one way or the other.
[QUOTE=GunFox;34896141]This sounds really terrible, and I was annoyed at first glance, but the more I think about it, the more ridiculous being angry about it is. Muslims are by no means all terrorists or mostly terrorists or anything remotely similar. However, the terrorist factions which attack the US in recent years ARE Muslim in nature, so putting feelers into the community to hunt for terrorist recruiters makes sense. So long as they don't violate their rights or start getting warrants and such based solely on the fact that they are Muslim, then it is good police work, not some kind of violation of their rights. I can't say that I would be pleased if the police started looking into me for my religious affiliations, but I would be far more annoyed at the people who made it a problem in the first place by blowing shit up. I'd put good money on the FBI having done this for a decade.[/QUOTE] The problem with this is: 1) They are the NYPD. Extremely corrupt. 2) They're in New York. There are thousands of other [i]actual[/i] criminals they could be catching--rapists, burglars, murderers, etc.--but instead they're spying on innocent people. 3) Our taxes pay for this bullshit, once again, they should actually be catching real criminals 4) It unnecessarily targets a specific group of people. Yes, radical religious terrorists exist from this group. There is also the issue of domestic terrorism. Muslims are far from the only group that present a threat to the country, they're just the group the media focuses on because of 9/11. I think everyone forgot about the Unabomber? And yeah, I'm sure the FBI has done this for a long time, as well as the CIA. But the NYPD is supposed to be catching criminals that present an immediate threat to the people. Instead they're doing lazy police work. Of course it's easier to sit on your car eating hamburgers and writing down license plates or chilling in a mosque listening to conversations, than it is to catch violent offenders. They're just shit police and I honestly can't believe New Yorkers aren't outraged that they have to pay these assholes.
[QUOTE=Ultra Violence;34899455]They're just shit police and I honestly can't believe New Yorkers aren't outraged that they have to pay these assholes.[/QUOTE] I've never met a New Yorker who actually liked the police, except for sheltered white rich people. As a whole I'd argue New York isn't mad enough, but just look through the works of your average NYC rapper and there will be more then a few songs about how much the police suck.
[QUOTE=Ultra Violence;34899455]The problem with this is: 1) They are the NYPD. Extremely corrupt. 2) They're in New York. There are thousands of other [i]actual[/i] criminals they could be catching--rapists, burglars, murderers, etc.--but instead they're spying on innocent people. 3) Our taxes pay for this bullshit, once again, they should actually be catching real criminals 4) It unnecessarily targets a specific group of people. Yes, radical religious terrorists exist from this group. There is also the issue of domestic terrorism. Muslims are far from the only group that present a threat to the country, they're just the group the media focuses on because of 9/11. I think everyone forgot about the Unabomber? And yeah, I'm sure the FBI has done this for a long time, as well as the CIA. But the NYPD is supposed to be catching criminals that present an immediate threat to the people. Instead they're doing lazy police work. Of course it's easier to sit on your car eating hamburgers and writing down license plates or chilling in a mosque listening to conversations, than it is to catch violent offenders. They're just shit police and I honestly can't believe New Yorkers aren't outraged that they have to pay these assholes.[/QUOTE] Yeah overall my preference would be to leave it to the FBI. I'm just pointing out that getting outraged over it from a moral standpoint is surprisingly flawed. From a monetary standpoint and general use of resources, I agree that the NYPD could be doing a better job. Note that the CIA would only be doing this overseas. Before you get all "Yeah that is what they TELL you", keep in mind that the FBI was specifically formed to basically be the domestic CIA. The CIA is our offensive intelligence and the FBI serves as our defensive counterintelligence. The FBI is treated as a police organization so that they can operate within the US borders, which is the opposite of the CIA which shares far more in common with a branch of the armed services. The CIA operating domestically would end very poorly and is entirely redundant.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.