• Russia recognises Crimea as an independent nation
    41 replies, posted
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26621726[/url] [quote]Russian President Vladimir Putin has signed a decree recognising Crimea "as a sovereign and independent state", presidential sources say. "This decree enters into force on the day on which it is signed," they add. The move follows Sunday's referendum in Crimea in which officials said 97% of voters backed breaking away from Ukraine and joining Russia.[/quote]
I would like to recognize my own house as a new nation, seeing as unilateral nationhood declarations seem to be ok now.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;44267875]I would like to recognize my own house as a new nation, seeing as unilateral nationhood declarations seem to be ok now.[/QUOTE] This would be more like declaring your neighbors bedroom another house, and moving your kids in.
[QUOTE=DesolateGrun;44268010]This would be more like declaring your neighbors bedroom another house, and moving your kids in.[/QUOTE] More like your kids were already living there.
Putin did nothing wrong he is just protecting his interests in Crimea (the port) and protecting ethnic Russians. The West will do nothing about this just like they did nothing about the Syrian chemical attack.
[QUOTE=seano12;44268172]Putin did nothing wrong he is just protecting his interests in Crimea (the port) and[B] protecting ethnic Russians[/B]. The West will do nothing about this just like they did nothing about the Syrian chemical attack.[/QUOTE] now now, lets be honest here, putin doesn't give a shit about them lol, this is all about the port, nothing more.
As if the NATO pussies are gonna do anything about it. Russia can do whatever they want because nobody has got the balls to stop them.
[QUOTE=maximizer39v2;44268206]As if the NATO pussies are gonna do anything about it. Russia can do whatever they want because nobody has got the balls to stop them.[/QUOTE] just like the US, i guess russia remembered having a large army and nukes, lets you ignore a lot of "rules".
[QUOTE=seano12;44268172]Putin did nothing wrong he is just protecting his interests in Crimea (the port) and protecting ethnic Russians. The West will do nothing about this just like they did nothing about the Syrian chemical attack.[/QUOTE] How on earth is that doing nothing wrong? There's lots of "ethnic" mexicans in California, does that give the right to Mexico to annex it?
[QUOTE=seano12;44268172]Putin did nothing wrong[/QUOTE] Except for the part where he invaded another country and took over a part of it
[QUOTE=seano12;44268172]Putin did nothing wrong he is just protecting his interests in Crimea (the port) and protecting ethnic Russians. The West will do nothing about this just like they did nothing about the Syrian chemical attack.[/QUOTE] youre talking like heads of states arent real people and they're just pre-designed to do the stupid nationalistic shit you saw in your world history textbook
[QUOTE=Jsm;44268363]How on earth is that doing nothing wrong? There's lots of "ethnic" mexicans in California, does that give the right to Mexico to annex it?[/QUOTE] If the citizens got together and almost unanimously declared California an independent state, and then were faced with the choice of either remaining independent or joining Mexico, and chose the latter after a referendum, then sure.
[QUOTE=Melnek;44268397]If the citizens got together and almost unanimously declared California an independent state, and then were faced with the choice of either remaining independent or joining Mexico, and chose the latter after a referendum, then sure.[/QUOTE] In a referendum organised while the Mexican army had invaded, with a high amount of apparent boycotting. (Also hypotheticals are fun) My only real issue with what has happened is the fact they didn't do it "properly", they could have waited for everything to settle down in Kiev and go through a proper procedure but instead the Russians have basically invaded.
[QUOTE=Melnek;44268397]If the citizens got together and almost unanimously declared California an independent state, and then were faced with the choice of either remaining independent or joining Mexico, and chose the latter after a referendum, then sure.[/QUOTE] um well no...there was this thing in the 1860's and anyway it was officially determined that you cannot leave the U.S. just cas a bunch of people in your state say they can...
[QUOTE=Sableye;44268588]um well no...there was this thing in the 1860's and anyway it was officially determined that you cannot leave the U.S. just cas a bunch of people in your state say they can...[/QUOTE] Yeah but apparently a countries constitution and law gets trumped by people wanting to leave. That is the argument being used here. Under Ukrainian (and possibly international) law the referendum and the movement is illegal but everyone seems to be overlooking that..
Isn't this supposed to be a good thing?
An older (55+) lady in the break room at the grocery store where I work was talking about this, she said "There's gonna be a war. I just know it. And we're gonna lose!" I told her that America would most likely win in a war with Russia but it would be very costly for both sides and not a good thing. I then semi-jokingly said that we might have another cold war on our hands, to which she replied "What's the cold war?" Another guy chimed in and said "Well we invaded 'em once and that didn't work out too well" *facepalm* I changed the subject after that.
[QUOTE=maximizer39v2;44268655]An older (55+) lady in the break room at the grocery store where I work was talking about this, she said "There's gonna be a war. I just know it. And we're gonna lose!" I told her that America would most likely win in a war with Russia but it would be very costly for both sides and not a good thing. I then semi-jokingly said that we might have another cold war on our hands, to which she replied "What's the cold war?" Another guy chimed in and said "Well we invaded 'em once and that didn't work out too well" *facepalm* I changed the subject after that.[/QUOTE] Please tell me this never happened. I don't want to believe that one of my fellow countrymen doesn't know what the cold war is, especially someone who lived through it (a babyboomer).
[QUOTE=maximizer39v2;44268655]Another guy chimed in and said "Well we invaded 'em once and that didn't work out too well"[/QUOTE] Give him the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe he meant the Allied intervention in the Russian Civil War?
[QUOTE=seano12;44268671]Please tell me this never happened. I don't want to believe that one of my fellow countrymen doesn't know what the cold war is, especially someone who lived through it (a babyboomer).[/QUOTE] It's 100% true. Sadly.
I don't know why we have these crackpots on the forum who think that the referendum was in any way legit then again I guess all the "self defence forces" that had absolutely nothing to do with a country that has a shocking democratic record were there to assure everyone it was fair
International law doesn't really give a shit about referendums. The referendum may change your view on whether Russia's intervention was moral, but it has no effect on whether it was legal; use of force is only legal when it's done in self-defence, or authorised by the Security Council. Russia's justifications for the intervention are kind of weird too. With the invasion of Iraq, the US claimed that it was self-defence because Saddam might attack them at some point in the future, and that Res. 1441 had kind-of-implicitly-almost authorised action against Iraq. Russia just made up some shit about ethnic Russians, which has no basis in international law at all. It's just strange. 'International law' is practically a running joke between the superpowers at this point though so it doesn't matter too much
[QUOTE=smurfy;44268898]International law doesn't really give a shit about referendums. The referendum may change your view on whether Russia's intervention was moral, but it has no effect on whether it was legal; use of force is only legal when it's done in self-defence, or authorised by the Security Council. Russia's justifications for the intervention are kind of weird too. With the invasion of Iraq, the US claimed that it was self-defence because Saddam might attack them at some point in the future, and that Res. 1441 had kind-of-implicitly-almost authorised action against Iraq. Russia just made up some shit about ethnic Russians, which has no basis in international law at all. It's just strange. 'International law' is practically a running joke between the superpowers at this point though so it doesn't matter too much[/QUOTE] yup and, that is not even getting into the fact, that the referendum was bogus lol. [url]http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-27-referendum-day/[/url] [QUOTE]The Crimean Tatar TV station ATR has reported at 19:30 pm local time on numerous violations of election law during the referendum... In many districts, the number of votes on the additional lists exceeded the number of existing voters on the rolls. Reporters found that in districts with high concentration of Crimean Tatars, there were no votes or only a few; Crimean Tatar leader Mustafa Dzhemilev said that 90% of the Crimean community boycotted the referendum. While many people did turn out enthusiastically despite rain, the high numbers seemed to be boosted by the unlawful system of accepting registrations on the spot from people who said they were not in existing voting lists. Just by showing a passport, anyone could be entered into the list, and there was nothing to stop people from going to multiple polling locations and voting repeatedly. ATR reported that according to election law, members of the local election commission are supposed to vote on whether to admit people to such additional lists, but this procedure was not followed. Camera crews caught obvious violations like children voting, ballots pre-marked by election personnel, gun-toting self-defense units refusing to show ID or explain who they were, and biker gangs from Russia who said they were “maintaining order.”[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/VNK67gt.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/6Z0gdUq.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.interpretermag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Prefilled.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.interpretermag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Druzhinik.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=seano12;44268172]Putin did nothing wrong he is just protecting his interests in Crimea (the port) and protecting ethnic Russians. .[/QUOTE] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement"]Guess who did the same thing.[/URL]
[QUOTE=DesolateGrun;44268010]This would be more like declaring your neighbors bedroom another house, and moving your kids in.[/QUOTE] Shut it, my house recognizes his house
[QUOTE=Griffster26;44269008][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement"]Guess who did the same thing.[/URL][/QUOTE] Shit, you beat me to the Hitler reference. Not sure why Seano disagrees with you. I mean, Hitler was just protecting his interests in the Sudetenland (the factories) and protecting ethnic Germans.
[QUOTE=Griffster26;44269008][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement"]Guess who did the same thing.[/URL][/QUOTE] Hitler did nothing wrong
[QUOTE=maximizer39v2;44268206]As if the NATO pussies are gonna do anything about it. Russia can do whatever they want because nobody has got the balls to stop them.[/QUOTE] Yeah NATO has never done anything... besides Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya...
[QUOTE=smurfy;44269756]Hitler did nothing wrong[/QUOTE] In that regard, he definitely did nothing wrong at all. [editline]17th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Masterofstars;44269995]Yeah NATO has never done anything... besides Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya...[/QUOTE] Yeah, but NATO didn't have the balls to do a proper intervention when the government changed on a brink of a civil war in the Ukraine, Putin just took the initiative for them.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44268147]More like your kids were already living there.[/QUOTE] more like you sent your kids there to spend the night and then you say they were already living there
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