• Elder Scrolls Online combat detailed; tanks not necessary, apparently
    23 replies, posted
[url]http://www.pcgamesn.com/elderscrolls/elder-scrolls-online-combat-detailed-tanks-not-necessary-apparently[/url]
I just want the elders scrolls online to pass quickly so that TES VI can come.
So it's like Guild Wars 2? Where dungeoning without a healer or tank, and it's a colossal mess of DPS not knowing what to do, and running around scared. No organized strategy to 'bosses', and probably not much end game raiding/dungeoning because of this, because it would be made either easy, or retardedly hard. The mechanic of having a tank or healer is needed in MMO's. It really is. I don't understand how it's special, or something for people to not want to have tanks in their MMO's. Is it because people are too lazy to actually be a tank, getting aggro and pretty much doing everything to set up the group, while healers have to keep everyone alive. Then the dps just stand there and hit buttons repeatedly? Right.
[QUOTE=SatansSin;39891471] Where dungeoning without a healer or tank, and it's a colossal mess of DPS not knowing what to do, and running around scared. [/QUOTE] You must have been in some shitty groups then.
[QUOTE=Makol;39891510]You must have been in some shitty groups then.[/QUOTE] It was when the game was originally released. So yeah, it was fairly redundant at times.
Well yeah at launch pretty much everyone was clueless at to how dungeons and the bosses worked, but that's no longer the case. Not sure how it'll play out in ESO but tanks are not needed in GW2. You can try and tank but it won't be very effective.
OH exciting, I hate having to stick to archetypes.
[QUOTE=SatansSin;39891471]So it's like Guild Wars 2? Where dungeoning without a healer or tank, and it's a colossal mess of DPS not knowing what to do, and running around scared. No organized strategy to 'bosses', and probably not much end game raiding/dungeoning because of this, because it would be made either easy, or retardedly hard. The mechanic of having a tank or healer is needed in MMO's. It really is. I don't understand how it's special, or something for people to not want to have tanks in their MMO's. Is it because people are too lazy to actually be a tank, getting aggro and pretty much doing everything to set up the group, while healers have to keep everyone alive. Then the dps just stand there and hit buttons repeatedly? Right.[/QUOTE] There's not only one way to do anything. It's stupid to even suggest that that's the case, and that mentality is why MMOs are so terrible compared to other games these days.
From what I understand from a couple friends who played it, GW2s Dungeons were designed for the Healer/Tank/DPS trio, but decided not to force people to do it, so it failed hard. Hopefully ESO's Dungeons are not designed for this so it won't be a problem.
[QUOTE=SatansSin;39891471]So it's like Guild Wars 2? Where dungeoning without a healer or tank, and it's a colossal mess of DPS not knowing what to do, and running around scared. No organized strategy to 'bosses', and probably not much end game raiding/dungeoning because of this, because it would be made either easy, or retardedly hard. The mechanic of having a tank or healer is needed in MMO's. It really is. I don't understand how it's special, or something for people to not want to have tanks in their MMO's. Is it because people are too lazy to actually be a tank, getting aggro and pretty much doing everything to set up the group, while healers have to keep everyone alive. Then the dps just stand there and hit buttons repeatedly? Right.[/QUOTE] The problem with GW2 is that it tried so hard to make each player ~independent~ that it completely fucked up any semblance of teamwork and made the difficulty either lukewarm, or just shit.
[QUOTE=Tuskin;39895615]OH exciting, I hate having to stick to archetypes.[/QUOTE] i don't really get this, without tanks it's now you're either support or your DPS there are still archetypes, just less
[QUOTE=JerryK;39895956]i don't really get this, without tanks it's now you're either support or your DPS there are still archetypes, just less[/QUOTE] I guess. I was discussing this with a friend and he was trying to tell me the single player games had the archetypes as well.
[QUOTE=Makol;39891510]You must have been in some shitty groups then.[/QUOTE] I've fully cleared all but one dungeon and have done fractals up to level 10, his analysis of Guild Wars 2 dungeons is right on the mark. Either I've done dozens of runs with "shitty groups" or that's just how the game works.
But I like being a tank :(
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;39895657]There's not only one way to do anything. It's stupid to even suggest that that's the case, and that mentality is why MMOs are so terrible compared to other games these days.[/QUOTE] On most designs I would agree but the "Holy Trinity" of a warrior taunting enemies, a rogue steathily backstabbing them, and a cleric casting healing magic has existed for so long (since more or less RPG's began) because it's basic and efficient enough to communicate roles to players. If you are releasing a fantasy, theme-park style MMORPG where the endgame is 5 dudes beating up on a dragon, there really is no reason not to go with it.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;39896271]On most designs I would agree but the "Holy Trinity" of a warrior taunting enemies, a rogue steathily backstabbing them, and a cleric casting healing magic has existed for so long (since more or less RPG's began) because it's basic and efficient enough to communicate roles to players. If you are releasing a fantasy, theme-park style MMORPG where the endgame is 5 dudes beating up on a dragon, there really is no reason not to go with it.[/QUOTE] It's only typical because in the end a party needs to be able to do damage and take damage, and the most effective way to do that is to heal the person who's health is worth the most, and avoid letting the people focused on damage take hits. If your party can achieve this without somebody dedicated to soaking up damage, or dedicated to dealing damage, then you're fine. I'd love to see more MMOs that let people work out their own character if they want, but it's not likely as most MMOs are at the moment one massive pile of lookalikes afraid to break the old formulas.
I want Skyrim, but online. Fuck all this standard MMO bullshit.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;39896271]On most designs I would agree but the "Holy Trinity" of a warrior taunting enemies, a rogue steathily backstabbing them, and a cleric casting healing magic has existed for so long (since more or less RPG's began) because it's basic and efficient enough to communicate roles to players. If you are releasing a fantasy, theme-park style MMORPG where the endgame is 5 dudes beating up on a dragon, there really is no reason not to go with it.[/QUOTE] The reason not to go with it is that it's clearly outdated. Back in the days of earlier WoW, even its gameplay elements were pretty revolutionary. Now, going from almost any genre of game to an MMO feels like a leap back in time, and brand new ones show their age before they're even out. In my opinion, the MMO that breaks this barrier is the one that makes your character development and the game world matter as much as games like The Elder Scrolls do. Honestly, I feel as though that's what the older MMOs were trying to be. They just didn't have the resources or the means to do it with.
Elder scrolls online better be DAMN good if there's no Tanking.
[QUOTE=Makol;39891644]Well yeah at launch pretty much everyone was clueless at to how dungeons and the bosses worked, but that's no longer the case. Not sure how it'll play out in ESO but tanks are not needed in GW2. You can try and tank but it won't be very effective.[/QUOTE] warrior + hp regen + banners = never gonna go down
I like tanking though :C
[QUOTE=AugustBurnsRed;39896884]Elder scrolls online better be DAMN good if there's no Tanking.[/QUOTE] Didn't you hear? They retconned all the fun out too.
[QUOTE=Crimor;39897201]I like tanking though :C[/QUOTE] I love that feeling you get when you are taking mass amounts of damage but living through it but if someone else does it they die in 1 second.
Mixed feelings about this. I like being the damage sponge in many games.
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