• Call to amend NSW gun laws after kid seen with "realistic" looking toy gun
    53 replies, posted
[t]http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2015/06/11/1227392/528805-19ddcffe-0f5d-11e5-bb38-91e363bd21ce.jpg[/t] [QUOTE]The picture shows the lad, who can be no older than nine or 10 years old, just metres from the site of December’s Lindt Cafe siege, with his finger on the trigger of the gun with a “fully loaded” magazine that appears to be a toy. He is accompanied by an adult male and another child. Police are appalled that something like this can happen. “In this heightened terrorism environment, if someone sees what looks to be a real firearm, regardless of the age of the person carrying it, they’re going to have genuine concerns,” Police Association of NSW president Scott Weber said. “I think firstly we need education for parents and children and secondly, perhaps, very real-looking replica guns don’t need to be on the market.” The boy’s gun appears to fit that description and, in the wrong hands, could easily be used to threaten someone. But a loophole exempts “children’s toy” guns, no matter how realistic they look, and all manufacturers have to do to bypass the law is to write “toy” on the packaging or put a removable plug in the barrel.[/QUOTE] Source: [URL="http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/toy-gun-laws-sighting-of-boy-with-realistic-fake-prompts-call-to-amend-laws-surrouding-sale/story-fni0cx4q-1227392042991"]http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/toy-gun-laws-sighting-of-boy-with-realistic-fake-prompts-call-to-amend-laws-surrouding-sale/story-fni0cx4q-1227392042991[/URL]
Orange tips are a wonderful thing. Seriously, I'm sorta surprised that the rest of the world hasn't adopted orange tips as something required by law :v:
I'm guessing this picture is going to be a used a lot when people try to say that sharia law zones are a real thing
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;47927536]Orange tips are a wonderful thing. Seriously, I'm sorta surprised that the rest of the world hasn't adopted orange tips as something required by law :v:[/QUOTE] If you think about it you could carry just about anything if you slipped like a little orange rubber sleeve over the muzzle
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;47927536]Orange tips are a wonderful thing. Seriously, I'm sorta surprised that the rest of the world hasn't adopted orange tips as something required by law :v:[/QUOTE] They aren't even required everywhere in the US.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;47927536]Orange tips are a wonderful thing. Seriously, I'm sorta surprised that the rest of the world hasn't adopted orange tips as something required by law :v:[/QUOTE] All toy guns I ever got had orange tips. I don't understand where that kid even got that. I don't even know why they're talking of amending laws because that doesn't look like a legal toy anyway. I could be very wrong though.
[QUOTE=MuTAnT;47927628]All toy guns I ever got had orange tips. I don't understand where that kid even got that. I don't even know why they're talking of amending laws because that doesn't look like a legal toy anyway. I could be very wrong though.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure they're required to have orange/bright tips.
[QUOTE=deadoon;47927566]They aren't even required everywhere in the US.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure manufacturers just make them all have orange tips to be safe and not have to differentiate lines between orange and non-orange tips though. Still nothing preventing kids from taking them off, maybe make the law say the barrel has to have an orange ring painted on, it'd make it a bit more tricky
I'm a little confused as to what parent would think it would be okay for them or their child to carry around a replica gun? [editline]11th June 2015[/editline] This being in Australia.
[QUOTE=Sableye;47927751]Pretty sure manufacturers just make them all have orange tips to be safe and not have to differentiate lines between orange and non-orange tips though. Still nothing preventing kids from taking them off, maybe make the law say the barrel has to have an orange ring painted on, it'd make it a bit more tricky[/QUOTE] I thought in the US it was required for manufacturing and sales but it doesn't matter once the end user gets it. Like a mattress tag. [editline]11th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=DogGunn;47927799]I'm a little confused as to what parent would think it would be okay for them or their child to carry around a replica gun? [editline]11th June 2015[/editline] This being in Australia.[/QUOTE] This generally wouldn't be okay even in the US. Kids just don't run around in public carrying toy guns like that.
iirc i don't think traditional AK47s have a clear magazine that shows how many rounds are inside
People rating the OP funny but it's a legitimate concern in my opinion. If real and fake guns look identical from simply across the street, it's just asking for either a kid with a toy being shot or someone with the real thing being ignored. Good on them if they want to take precautions against something like that happening.
that gun is too obviously tiny to actually be an ak47 but that is pretry 'real' from a distance for sure
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;47927536]Orange tips are a wonderful thing. Seriously, I'm sorta surprised that the rest of the world hasn't adopted orange tips as something required by law :v:[/QUOTE] Europe has(well, we do so I assume the rest of Europe does something similar at least). Over here if it's a toy, orange tip, if it's airsoft, both the gun barrel and the stock have to be in bright colours, usually fluorescent yellow or red like so: [t]http://i.imgur.com/oLKnmZ8.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;47927940]Europe has(well, we do so I assume the rest of Europe does something similar at least). Over here if it's a toy, orange tip, if it's airsoft, both the gun barrel and the stock have to be in bright colours, usually fluorescent yellow or red like so: [t]http://i.imgur.com/oLKnmZ8.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] Frankly that just looks like someone painted their AR15 some obnoxious "zombie killer" color as is trending these days. [img]http://i.imgur.com/L3ZTaUy.jpg[/img] This is a real firearm...
[video=youtube;FiGm1DUtVi8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiGm1DUtVi8[/video] Proper replica, man
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;47927959]Frankly that just looks like someone painted their AR15 some obnoxious "zombie killer" color as is trending these days. [img]http://i.imgur.com/L3ZTaUy.jpg[/img] This is a real firearm...[/QUOTE] lol that stubby little knife doesn't even go past the barrel
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;47927959]Frankly that just looks like someone painted their AR15 some obnoxious "zombie killer" color as is trending these days. [img]http://i.imgur.com/L3ZTaUy.jpg[/img] This is a real firearm...[/QUOTE] gross
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;47927940]Europe has(well, we do so I assume the rest of Europe does something similar at least). Over here if it's a toy, orange tip, if it's airsoft, both the gun barrel and the stock have to be in bright colours, usually fluorescent yellow or red like so: [t]http://i.imgur.com/oLKnmZ8.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] I see people with unpainted airsoft guns all the time out here in Portugal though. Not "all the time" as in out in the street, but more as in conventions and shit. Good. This just makes me think that if some criminal wanted to get away with something he could just paint a real gun like an airsoft gun. Nothing stopping him.
[QUOTE=fredstin22;47928106]I have replica weapons and they don't require orange tips, and I have seen many toy weapons without orange tips on stores, but I'm in WA so I don't know how it is in NSW.[/QUOTE] In QLD & WA we have a lot more lenient gun laws than the rest of Australia.
Another piece of legislation that won't do anything? Ok then. And it's only 'realistic' if yer stupid enough to start panicking rather than take a few seconds to check it over.
None of that orange tip/neon yellow stock stuff really solves anything. Simple solution: treat replica firearms like real firearms. Don't display them on public. Don't threaten people with them. If some dumbass tries something with a replica firearm, prosecute him as if it's a real weapon because there's no reasonable way a normal person could tell the difference from a distance. Orange tips and any other "replica identification" laws are completely worthless. As others have mentioned, anyone can spray a bit of orange on a real firearm.
[QUOTE=Jake Nukem;47928135]Another piece of legislation that won't do anything? Ok then. And it's only 'realistic' if yer stupid enough to start panicking rather than take a few seconds to check it over.[/QUOTE] Some people don't have a few seconds if it's real gun.
[QUOTE=fredstin22;47928106]Why are people getting so riled up about this? I'm seeing this story on Facebook and various other sites as if it's a big news story It's a kid with a toy gun. It's not like it's an adult with a full size replica weapon, if it was then it's something to be concerned about. I have replica weapons and they don't require orange tips, and I have seen many toy weapons without orange tips on stores, but I'm in WA so I don't know how it is in NSW.[/QUOTE] Because that picture was taken literally metres from where the Lindt cafe siege happened. You know, where hostages were held up by a man with a shotgun and two of the hostages were shot and killed. It's incredibly insensitive for the parents to allow their kid to carry a toy gun so close to the site.
[QUOTE][B]How is a child's toy distinguished from an imitation firearm?[/B] A child's toy would be distinguished from an imitation firearm by the packaging, targeted sale market (ie sold in a toy store, marked for ages 3+ etc), the materials the toy is made from, the general appearance or the functioning of the toy (for example, a water pistol). The onus is on the person in possession of the item and if there is any doubt they may seek advice from industry bodies such as a firearms dealer or a theatrical armourer. [B]What is an imitation firearm?[/B] An imitation firearm is defined in section 4D of the Act as an object that, regardless of its colour, weight or composition or the presence or absence of any moveable parts, substantially duplicates in appearance a firearm but that is not a firearm. An imitation firearm does not include anything that is produced and identified as a children's toy. [URL="http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/140178/Imitation_Firearms_Permit_FACT_Sheet_Sep_2013_V1.4.pdf"]Also a document published by the NSWPF[/URL][/QUOTE] [QUOTE][B]Section 4D[/B] (3) In this section, "imitation firearm" means an object that, regardless of its colour, weight or composition or the presence or absence of any moveable parts, substantially duplicates in appearance a firearm but that is not a firearm. (4) However, an imitation firearm does not include any such object that is produced and identified as a children’s toy. Source: [URL]http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/fa1996102/s4d.html[/URL][/QUOTE] This at least settles it for NSW.. if it looks like the toy gun in the photo, then it's a gun, even if it's a toy.
[QUOTE=Levelog;47927817]I thought in the US it was required for manufacturing and sales but it doesn't matter once the end user gets it. Like a mattress tag. [editline]11th June 2015[/editline] This generally wouldn't be okay even in the US. Kids just don't run around in public carrying toy guns like that.[/QUOTE] No it's illegal in some states for the end user to remove the tip, my state Ohio for sure with the semi-recent shooting of a kid who did just that, the news was quick to point out that his toy gun had been illegally modified to look like the real thing [editline]11th June 2015[/editline] It always kind of annoyed me that airsoft went towards realistic guns when the mechanism could basically be used in any number of fictional weapons from movies that wouldn't be confused, and plus there's so much more room to be creative when you just have to have a very small mechanism like airsoft guns do
[QUOTE=Sableye;47928363]No it's illegal in some states for the end user to remove the tip, my state Ohio for sure with the semi-recent shooting of a kid who did just that, the news was quick to point out that his toy gun had been illegally modified to look like the real thing [editline]11th June 2015[/editline] It always kind of annoyed me that airsoft went towards realistic guns when the mechanism could basically be used in any number of fictional weapons from movies that wouldn't be confused, and plus there's so much more room to be creative when you just have to have a very small mechanism like airsoft guns do[/QUOTE] I'm pretty there isn't in Ohio, at least not before the shooting. I remember there was a big push to pass one when it happened, and back when I had airsoft guns I could never find a law stating so when I searched. [editline]11th June 2015[/editline] [URL="http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/11/ohio_lawmaker_to_introduce_leg.html"]This[/URL] article details the push for the law. I'd assume there wouldn't be a push for one if there already was a law.
[QUOTE=Sableye;47928363] It always kind of annoyed me that airsoft went towards realistic guns when the mechanism could basically be used in any number of fictional weapons from movies that wouldn't be confused, and plus there's so much more room to be creative when you just have to have a very small mechanism like airsoft guns do[/QUOTE] They already have a Pulse rifle? Lemme have my full steel AK replica pls, thank you.
[quote] or put a removable plug in the barrel.[/quote] This is the part that amazes me. Who exactly thought it to be a good idea for kids to be walking around with toy guns that are indistinguishable from the real thing until you actually get your hands on it, and make one of the visual differences removable?
Man we're never gonna get Airsoft over here.
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