• Tunisia constitution: MPs approve full gender equality and ban torture
    24 replies, posted
[img]http://imgkk.com/i/nn2z.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gyR1VJVDmiByaJFFL2drxRmsVIIA?docId=abb09f07-9df2-4934-aad9-421b5171e21b[/url] [quote]Tunisia voted Monday to enshrine gender equality in its draft constitution, a key step towards safeguarding its relatively progressive laws on women's rights, with the ruling Islamists under pressure to compromise. "All male and female citizens have the same rights and duties. They are equal before the law without discrimination," states article 20 of the text, which was approved by 159 lawmakers out of the 169 who voted. The formula was agreed between the ruling Islamist party Ennahda and the secular opposition during negotiations to end months of political crisis that followed the assassination of an opposition politician by suspected jihadists last year. Ennahda sparked a storm of controversy in 2012 when it tried to introduce gender "complementarity" rather than equality into the post-uprising constitution.[/quote]
I bet those 10 lawmakers who voted against it look like asses now.
This is great news.
So is the constitution secular?
[QUOTE=mac338;43446505]So is the constitution secular?[/QUOTE] It's all a big compromise between the Islamists and the secularists. Islam is the state religion but MPs [url=http://news.yahoo.com/tunisia-papers-downbeat-constitution-vote-104345125.html]rejected[/url] motions to define Islam and the Koran as sources of law, and freedom of conscience is guaranteed for all religions. It will also be illegal to use religious grounds for political activity.
[QUOTE=smurfy;43446555]It will also be illegal to use religious grounds for political activity.[/QUOTE] sure wish certain US politicians would act like this
[QUOTE=smurfy;43446555]...rejected motions to define Islam and the Koran as sources of law, and freedom of conscience is guaranteed for all religions. It will also be illegal to use religious grounds for political activity.[/QUOTE] And just like that, A North-African country coming out of a revolution is more progressive than the US of A.
This is amazing. I always wondered what it would be like to live during a revolution, its nice too see the outcome go so well for them.
But genders can't be fully equal in some cases.
[QUOTE=uzikus;43448936]But genders can't be fully equal in some cases.[/QUOTE] ...I don't think you understand what gender equality [I]under the law[/I] means.
[QUOTE=uzikus;43448936]But genders can't be fully equal in some cases.[/QUOTE] In most cases, they can Under the law, it is certainly possible And even if you can't make them 100% equal in all cases,it's still better to try than throw your arms in the air and go "eh, whatever".
[QUOTE=deltasquid;43447257]And just like that, A North-African country coming out of a revolution is more progressive than the US of A.[/QUOTE] Are you people serious? America is secular, okay? Having a majority religious population != non-secular. America is not the theocracy you people like to think it is, because last I checked, we don't execute people for changing religions. Deal with it.
[QUOTE=slayer64;43449594]Are you people serious? America is secular, okay? Having a majority religious population != non-secular. America is not the theocracy you people like to think it is, because last I checked, we don't execute people for changing religions. Deal with it.[/QUOTE] True, but politicians still try to implement law based on their religions; i.e. gay marriage, abortion, stem-cell research, and such and so forth. Obviously, our laws aren't dictated and based solely on the bible or the doctrines of religious institutions, but the influence of religion in the government and in politics is not amiss. Hell, it's literally written on our money and in our pledge of allegiance.
[QUOTE=-xxsetshotxx-;43449638]True, but politicians still try to implement law based on their religions; i.e. gay marriage, abortion, stem-cell research, and such and so forth. Obviously, our laws aren't dictated and based solely on the bible or the doctrines of religious institutions, but the influence of religion in the government and in politics is not amiss. Hell, it's literally written on our money and in our pledge of allegiance.[/QUOTE] implementing a few blue-laws doesn't mean your country has an official state religion.
[QUOTE=slayer64;43449594]Are you people serious? America is secular, okay? Having a majority religious population != non-secular. America is not the theocracy you people like to think it is, because last I checked, we don't execute people for changing religions. Deal with it.[/QUOTE] I think he more or less is talking about the fact that often we legislate based on religious beliefs and only religious beliefs. (See: The gay marriage debate). Obviously we're secular and he is kinda insane claiming that Tunisia is more progressive than us but we're definitely pretty religious.
[QUOTE=smurfy;43446555]It will also be illegal to use religious grounds for political activity.[/QUOTE] What does this mean? Religions are as much philosophies as any other and will inform their followers political ideals. Is atheism classed as a religious belief? Pedants claim it's a lack of belief but it's still a position on religion that could inform people's choices.
[QUOTE=smurfy;43446555]It's all a big compromise between the Islamists and the secularists. Islam is the state religion but MPs [url=http://news.yahoo.com/tunisia-papers-downbeat-constitution-vote-104345125.html]rejected[/url] motions to define Islam and the Koran as sources of law, and freedom of conscience is guaranteed for all religions. It will also be illegal to use religious grounds for political activity.[/QUOTE] If this is true this means great news for Tunisia in my opinion.
[QUOTE=slayer64;43449594]Are you people serious? America is secular, okay? Having a majority religious population != non-secular. America is not the theocracy you people like to think it is, because last I checked, we don't execute people for changing religions. Deal with it.[/QUOTE] Nah, seven of your states just ban atheists from holding public offices. [url]http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/StateConstitutions.htm[/url] Additionally, the Republican party is basically completely intertwined with religion. [url]http://www.theocracywatch.org/[/url] the USA is non-secular because a lack of religion will make it fucking hard to get any kind of office of importance in large parts of the USA. [editline]7th January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=lazyguy;43449953]What does this mean? Religions are as much philosophies as any other and will inform their followers political ideals. Is atheism classed as a religious belief? Pedants claim it's a lack of belief but it's still a position on religion that could inform people's choices.[/QUOTE] I think it means you can't, for example, say "Vote on party X because that's what a good Muslim/Christian/atheist" would do. E.g. Socialists shouldn't be able to use atheism as a good reason to vote for them, and preachers should not be advocating a political party during sermons. [editline]7th January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Winters;43449663]I think he more or less is talking about the fact that often we legislate based on religious beliefs and only religious beliefs. (See: The gay marriage debate). Obviously we're secular and he is kinda insane claiming that Tunisia is more progressive than us but we're definitely pretty religious.[/QUOTE] That, too, but outside of basing political beliefs on religion (which is pretty stupid but whatever) there's also the fact that certain states literally make it impossible for you to get elected if you are an atheist (and in even more states it'd be de facto impossible by sheer paranoia and fear of atheists in some communities).
[QUOTE=lazyguy;43449953]What does this mean? Religions are as much philosophies as any other and will inform their followers political ideals. Is atheism classed as a religious belief? Pedants claim it's a lack of belief but it's still a position on religion that could inform people's choices.[/QUOTE] O shit have you guys been misinterpreting that? I mean religious GROUNDS i.e. mosques and churches [editline]7th January 2014[/editline] [url=http://www.tunisia-live.net/2014/01/07/rights-to-health-and-free-education-approved-in-tunisian-constitution/]More rights and liberties[/url] have been approved, and the Islamist government is [url=http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/01/07/uk-tunisia-transition-idUKBREA060S520140107]preparing to hand power[/url] in the coming days to a transitional technocrat administration which will run the country until elections are held.
[QUOTE=smurfy;43451124]O shit have you guys been misinterpreting that? I mean religious GROUNDS i.e. mosques and churches[/QUOTE] Ah OK, that makes much more sense.
[QUOTE=BaguetteThug;43449014]...I don't think you understand what gender equality [I]under the law[/I] means.[/QUOTE] In that case, Bad Reading x100 for me!
O shit lol, they've now notionally approved another article which commits the state to gender equality even more: [quote]The state guarantees the protection of women’s rights and supports the advances therein. The state guarantees equal opportunities for women and men to take on various responsibilities across domains. The state strives for gender parity in all elected councils. The state takes all necessary measures to eradicate violence against women.[/quote] [url]http://www.tunisia-live.net/2014/01/09/constitution-amendment-calls-for-gender-parity-in-elected-bodies/[/url]
[QUOTE=code_gs;43446485] 159 lawmakers out of the 169 who voted[/QUOTE] Progress
[QUOTE=uzikus;43448936]But genders can't be fully equal in some cases.[/QUOTE] On a purely legal ground it can though. This is great news. Didn't expect something that good to come out of it considering how the rest of the countries that got turned upside down during the last few years turned out.
[QUOTE=slayer64;43449594]Are you people serious? America is secular, okay? Having a majority religious population != non-secular. America is not the theocracy you people like to think it is, because last I checked, we don't execute people for changing religions. Deal with it.[/QUOTE] [quote]Arkansas: "No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any Court." Maryland: "That no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God; nor shall the Legislature prescribe any other oath of office than the oath prescribed by this Constitution.” Mississippi: "No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state." North Carolina: "The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God." South Carolina: "No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution." Tennessee: "No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state." Texas: "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being." Pennsylvania: "No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth."[/quote] "Secular" I love how some of them even distort the Constitution, Article VI that states that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States" by adding shit like "unless they state they believe in God" which in itself is a fucking religious test. [QUOTE=deltasquid;43450132]Nah, seven of your states just ban atheists from holding public offices. [url]http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/StateConstitutions.htm[/url] Additionally, the Republican party is basically completely intertwined with religion. [url]http://www.theocracywatch.org/[/url] the USA is non-secular because a lack of religion will make it fucking hard to get any kind of office of importance in large parts of the USA.[/QUOTE] Not just fucking hard, coming out as an atheist is known to be political suicide due to the huge religious population and your career is pretty much over there and then.
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