• Opinions of Facepunch (more ROFLBURGER tears)
    76 replies, posted
There was a post I read in an unrelated thread today which got me thinking more in depth about our little corner of the internet. This post said the same thing as many other posts I've read before, and it wouldn't surprise me to hear that most of you have run into a post just like it. [QUOTE=BioWaster;50641730]Welcome to the Facepunch hive mind.[/QUOTE] That gets said about Facepunch. A lot. And I don't [I]entirely[/I] disagree with it... But there is a pretty big flaw of reasoning in there. Think about it this way; We have a pretty sizeable user base here. I mean, we're no Reddit or YouTube, but we do okay. There are enough users that it would be impossible to guarantee that every single one has near-identical opinions on every conceivable topic. Bit of a tangent coming up, but bear with me. On other sites, content receives things such as likes and upvotes to estimate how many of its readers enjoy that specific piece of content. That data is then used to filter out posts and threads which are deemed unpopular by its own community. The only thing that keeps threads on the front page HERE is how often it receives posts, and when the last post was made within it. Therefore, when something which is largely viewed as negative gets posted, it often overstays its welcome. Sometimes the admins might lock the thread, or remove the offending comment(s). But not always. Loads of people would then go on to rate the offending post dumb, people in turn post about how dumb this one thing was, OP responds, unnecessary drama, thread derailed etc. etc. etc. We've all seen it happen multiple times, I'm sure. Drama has become like a national sport to us. It's what we do! However: If we had a system in place to filter away comments and threads based on what we actually want to see, instead of the arbitrary wait period and useless sticker ratings, then the community wouldn't have to police itself in order to find out exactly what it is everybody hates this week. We wouldn't need to go to such thread derailing measures in an attempt to re-enforce the idea that, yes, this now is definitely the sort of thing we don't like people posting. I'm not saying that Facepunch empirically needs a system like this. This site is pretty cool as it is, which is why I still come here. The atmosphere actually challenges you to question your own opinion a bit more before you post, which is pretty refreshing. I just thought I might write a little mouth piece on why I think the community reacts to certain content the way it does, and indeed, our tendency to bandwagon and turn into a 'Hive mind' on certain things. Discuss below if you are so inclined!
if fp is a hivemind then the hiveconsciousness is schizophrenic
[QUOTE=Dancingonpie;50642581]If we had a system in place to filter away comments and threads based on what we actually want to see, instead of the arbitrary wait period and useless sticker ratings, then the community wouldn't have to police itself in order to find out exactly[/QUOTE] the problem with reddit style upvote systems is that unpopular (whether they're unpopular due to controversy or due to being late to the party) comments get buried and end up never being seen by anyone. so the top 20 or so comments get read by 5000 people and continuously get upvoted while the other comments don't even get seen and never have a chance to get upvoted. the trick to getting a top rated comment isn't to have anything important to say, but to be quick to the punch. I can't tell you how many times I've seen hopelessly inane comments with like 10000 upvotes bury good comments that nobody ever sees simply due to the fact that their comment took a little longer to post than some dumb reference to game of thrones basically filters and hierarchical rating systems make the hivemind even worse
Isn't the whole point of a forum about having a discussion and not jerking each other off because you have the same opinion? All of the top comments on shit like reddit are witty replies or obvious statements. [editline]4th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Dancingonpie;50642581] If we had a system in place to filter away comments and threads based on what we actually want to see, instead of the arbitrary wait period and useless sticker ratings, then the community wouldn't have to police itself in order to find out exactly what it is everybody hates this week. We wouldn't need to go to such thread derailing measures in an attempt to re-enforce the idea that, yes, this now is definitely the sort of thing we don't like people posting. [/QUOTE] Don't try to assimiliate yourself with a huge group of people with "we don't like" "our" and "everybody hates", popular opinions are never 100% (and sometimes not even close), and I'm sure everyone has an unpopular view on some topic. By making yourself a treehouse with no girls allowed it's going to become a mindless circlejerk on news threads and "downvote everyone who doesn't share my opinions waaah!" in discussions. A lot of people are just going to leave the site if you let the majority censor everything.
but Grade Ay is a cunt
[QUOTE=Jericho_Rus;50643532]Isn't the whole point of a forum about having a discussion and not jerking each other off because you have the same opinion? All of the top comments on shit like reddit are witty replies or obvious statements. [editline]4th July 2016[/editline] Don't try to assimiliate yourself with a huge group of people with "we don't like" "our" and "everybody hates", popular opinions are never 100% (and sometimes not even close), and I'm sure everyone has an unpopular view on some topic. By making yourself a treehouse with no girls allowed it's going to become a mindless circlejerk on news threads and "downvote everyone who doesn't share my opinions waaah!" in discussions. A lot of people are just going to leave the site if you let the majority censor everything.[/QUOTE] Oh I agree. I was merely illustrating a point. However, I think that some of the people who come here follow a pretty big group mentality based on what I've seen. Nothing wrong with it, I suppose. Sometimes people just like to feel as if they're a part of something bigger than themselves. Keep in mind we [I]are [/I] talking about a forum which accepts users through invite only. :P
[QUOTE=Dancingonpie;50644802] Keep in mind we [I]are [/I] talking about a forum which accepts users through invite only. :P[/QUOTE] Facepunch hasn't been invite only for years.
The reason there is a hivemind isn't because the system encourages it, it's because most people here are misfits in traditional social outlets and want/need a place that they can feel they fit in. And so people mimic each other because it means they fit in. It's the same with any online forum, and upvote systems like reddit literally promote hiveminds. The current forum setup is probably the best we can do to be honest.
[QUOTE=butre;50643523]the problem with reddit style upvote systems is that unpopular (whether they're unpopular due to controversy or due to being late to the party) comments get buried and end up never being seen by anyone. so the top 20 or so comments get read by 5000 people and continuously get upvoted while the other comments don't even get seen and never have a chance to get upvoted. basically filters and hierarchical rating systems make the hivemind even worse[/QUOTE] Hey, this is a very good point. Interesting read. I suppose one must also consider that this is only common on the bigger, default subreddits. There are plenty of smaller subreddits which don't have huge amounts of posts to deal with, leading to less competition to get yours seen. I wonder if a community's struggle to maintain a coherent string of discussion is an unavoidable symptom of having a large user base? [editline]4th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=153x;50644838]The reason there is a hivemind isn't because the system encourages it, it's because most people here are misfits in traditional social outlets and want/need a place that they can feel they fit in. And so people mimic each other because it means they fit in. It's the same with any online forum, and upvote systems like reddit literally promote hiveminds. The current forum setup is probably the best we can do to be honest.[/QUOTE] Probably another contributing factor somewhere, yes. Though, again, I believe it is hard to paint so many different users with such broad strokes. We are all individuals who live completely different lifestyles, so who's to say?
there isnt really a hivemind, a lot of users have the same opinions and politics and vidya, and it draws people together, without quite ending up as an echo chamber, theres enough debate and dissonance for their to be lively and thriving sub-communities, rather than this being literal neogaff
snip
[QUOTE=Dancingonpie;50644842]Hey, this is a very good point. Interesting read. I suppose one must also consider that this is only common on the bigger, default subreddits. There are plenty of smaller subreddits which don't have huge amounts of posts to deal with, leading to less competition to get yours seen. I wonder if a community's struggle to maintain a coherent string of discussion is an unavoidable symptom of having a large user base?[/QUOTE] It does get less and less as you go into less popular subreddits with more niche communities/about specific topics. The bigger issue I think is the fact that downvoting even exists. People use downvote as a disagree button rather than a way to combat spam/irrelevant discussion, which means unpopular opinions can be silenced just by a dozen people hitting downvote after they appear. It works in theory but fails when you bring the fact that it will never be used properly by people. Imagine if SH had ratings back and every post that got more than 5-10 dumb ratings was automatically hidden, it'd be even worse than before.
any system in which the users can decide the visibility of a post is a bad system except in instances of technical q&a threads
A hivemind? Ehh, not really. Though there are times on here where people jump in a dogpile on one user when it's not necessary.
The thing about the FP hivemind is that they think they're superior to reddit and *chan (you'll find people with plenty of excuses to "distance" FP from such places), when they're practically the same. It's laughable. [editline]8th July 2016[/editline] It's also quite noticeable how the mods tend to favor certain lines of thinking over other ones, perpetuating the echo chamber effect on the forum.
[B]assimilate[/B]
If we had upvotes/down votes I would leave, it's the main thing that keeps this place well above Reddit
Unfortunately FP 2.0 will make us only one step closer to reddit.
[QUOTE=matt000024;50676085]Unfortunately FP 2.0 will make us only one step closer to reddit.[/QUOTE] How did you find yourself to have come to this ridiculously baseless conclusion?
Call me crazy, but I think the idea of the 'Facepunch Hivemind' is just a fundamental misunderstanding of how real life communities vs. internet communities work. In real life, it's not always easy to ditch people you don't like: - You might live/work/whatever near them, making it hard to cut them out of your life. - Physically moving out of where you live to get away from old friends or an old community is costly. - Social anxiety, drama, social media, etc, makes it hard to get people out of your life. But on the internet: - You've got anonymity, and distance - you're far away from other people on the internet. - Leaving one community for another is basically free. - Not having to talk face-to-face makes it easier to tell people to fuck off. This ultimately boils down to a really obvious conclusion: the cost of ditching internet communities is very low when compared to the (potential) cost of ditching real life communities. Back explaining the 'FP Hivemind'. It's pretty simple: 1) People that like FP will stay, and usually people like other people because they've got similar interests or views or whatever. 2) People that don't like FP will eventually leave. 3) Exception to #2: People who tolerate others' views but uphold their own AND don't get banned for flaming or whatever. 4) The cost of leaving is virtually nothing for a new member. 5) The cost of leaving is higher the longer a member has been on FP. These simple rules leads to a cycle: People with similar views stay, people with opposing views to the majority leave, and the majority gets stronger. In real life, minority views can grow stronger over time because the cost of leaving is higher. Because the cost of leaving on the internet is very low, people feel less inclined to stay, as it might just be easier to go find an existing community that has similar views to theirs. It's very easy to say X internet community is a hivemind; the problem is that that statement isn't very meaningful. A community wouldn't be much of a community if everyone bitterly disagreed about every single issue. It'd be much more bizarre to have a cohesive internet community that disagreed on literally every single concept and issue. Conclusion: I think it's silly to call any community a hivemind, because the community agreeing on a thing should be a sign of unity. At the end of the day, it's just a generalization made to ignore the actual issue presented in whatever thread it is.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50676068]If we had upvotes/down votes I would leave, it's the main thing that keeps this place well above Reddit[/QUOTE] We already slap each other with bandwagoned "my revenge is complete!" dumb ratings.
[QUOTE=Quark:;50677145]How did you find yourself to have come to this ridiculously baseless conclusion?[/QUOTE] Because you cannot deny that the ability for people to make their own forums and moderate them along with having popularity of these forums determine their popularity is very redditlike?
[QUOTE=Quark:;50677145]How did you find yourself to have come to this ridiculously baseless conclusion?[/QUOTE] I don't say reddit like, but it will make circle jerking easy as fuck, Don't like peoples opinions? Make another sub and get people that believe what you do to post there, ban anyone and delete their posts. Don't say this won't happen, it will, any system that can be abused, will.
[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;50678223]I don't say reddit like, but it will make circle jerking easy as fuck, Don't like peoples opinions? Make another sub and get people that believe what you do to post there, ban anyone and delete their posts. Don't say this won't happen, it will, any system that can be abused, will.[/QUOTE] if they're keeping to themselves in their own subforum then what's the problem
[QUOTE=matt000024;50677682]Because you cannot deny that the ability for people to make their own forums and moderate them along with having popularity of these forums determine their popularity is very redditlike?[/QUOTE] Implying that the FP crowd and the reddit crowd are different people. Ha. As an exercise, I wanted to see the top 5 most active forums on [I]FP Open Beta[/I]. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/PPiDWhB.png[/IMG] Leaving aside Rust, looks like furries, shitposters and potheads use it a lot. Considering the vast amount of furry avatars and shitposters on the forum, it's not surprising.
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;50678267] As an exercise, I wanted to see the top 5 most active forums on [I]FP Open Beta[/I].[/QUOTE] uh activity doesn't mean what's the most active on the entire forum, that just lists what forums most recently got a new post. Hence the brand new forum there. ie: [img]http://i.imgur.com/8WGqiri.png[/img]
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;50678267]Implying that the FP crowd and the reddit crowd are different people. Ha. As an exercise, I wanted to see the top 5 most active forums on [I]FP Open Beta[/I]. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/PPiDWhB.png[/IMG] Leaving aside Rust, looks like furries, shitposters and potheads use it a lot. Considering the vast amount of furry avatars and shitposters on the forum, it's not surprising.[/QUOTE] then don't go there no ones forcing you to use the furry forums
[QUOTE=postal;50678273]uh activity doesn't mean what's the most active on the entire forum, that just lists what forums most recently got a new post. Hence the brand new forum there.[/QUOTE] Oh, so it should be renamed to "[U]recent[/U] activity" then. ;D
Most people who say "facepunch isn't a hive mind" are talking to people who say "well yesterday FACEPUNCH liked x, now FACEPUNCH doesn't like x, stop being such a hypocrite, hypocrite". Saying that somehow person a is a hypocrite because they said something different than person b, just because both of them are on the same forum, is pants on head stupid.
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;50678279]Oh, so it should be renamed to "[U]recent[/U] activity" then. ;D[/QUOTE] [U]Top 8 custom subforums by members:[/U] Old School FPS Discussion (Video Game) Overwatch (Video Game) Anime (Anime) Furry (Furry) LGBT (LGBT) Kemonomimi General (Anime Closet Furry) Testing Grounds (Testing Grounds) OIFY (OIFY) [U]Predicting top 5 subforums (no specific order because I'm not sure):[/U] Video Games Video Games News General Entertainment (Funny/Cool Videos/Images) Anime Furry won't be relevant on FP. The place will probably fall apart like all furry threads/subforums before it, and it's only popular now because they don't have anywhere to post.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.