• Firearms sales have dropped since the election - but have risen for minorities and LGBT people
    137 replies, posted
[URL="http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/trump-prompts-drop-gun-sales-minority-groups-article-1.2989842?utm_content=buffer7a2ff&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDailyNewsTw"]http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/trump-prompts-drop-gun-sales-minority-groups-article-1.2989842[/URL] [QUOTE]Nationwide gun sales have declined following President Trump’s election, but sales are spiking in minority and LGBT communities, according to FBI statistics, trade groups and gun shop owners.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]More than 7,000 people have joined the National African American Gun Association — an organization dedicated to educating the black community on gun use for both protection and recreation — since Trump took office on Jan. 20, President Phillip Smith told the Washington Post.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]The LGBT shooting organization, the Pink Pistols, said they began to see an uptick in interest after the mass shooting at Pulse, a gay nightclub in Orlando, with numbers continuing to grow amid Trump’s election, according to the Post. Founder Gwendolyn Patton said the group is pleased to have a pro-gun president, but some of its newest members are terrified Trump will roll back their rights.[/QUOTE]
Not surprised. If the NRA has any sense they'll use this to cultivate a left-wing gun culture.
One of the first conversations I had after the election was with a dear friend of mine They're trans, and they wanted my advice on a pistol for concealed carry, because they live in a rural town and were afraid of the bigotry this election has brought out of the woodwork This doesn't surprise me very much, and I hate so much that it doesn't
Not surprised, either. Gun sellers in the US love to perpetuate the "you need a gun to protect yourself" schtick as much as they can.
Well, if people learn good gun handling/safety and a respect for the 2nd amendment, awesome.
[QUOTE=Sitkero;51925253] This doesn't surprise me very much, and I hate so much that it doesn't[/QUOTE] The circumstances are a shame but more people interested in gun ownership is a net positive
[QUOTE=Tudd;51925290]Well, if people learn good gun handling/safety and a respect for the 2nd amendment, awesome.[/QUOTE] what isn't awesome though is the fact a lot of LGBT, Blacks, Mexicans, etc feel like they're so scared that they're going out to buy firearms in significantly increased numbers for protection now I'm not all-seeing, but there might be a recent change in American politics responsible for this, in addition to the aftermath of the hate-attack at a gay nightclub and black churches being burned down
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51925297]The circumstances are a shame but more people interested in gun ownership is a net positive[/QUOTE] I don't know how to phrase this without it sounding like a challenge, but I'm genuinely curious to know what your reasoning is for why more people owning guns is an objectively positive thing.
[QUOTE=Reds;51925376]I don't know how to phrase this without it sounding like a challenge, but I'm genuinely curious to know what your reasoning is for why more people owning guns is an objectively positive thing.[/QUOTE] It's objectively positive because it give people a way to defend themselves. Where the white man is afraid the gubment gon take his guns, minorities face real violence from said white men. When met with deadly force protests and sit ins aren't going to save your life, challenging it with deadly force might.
I've said it once, I'll probably say it a hundred times more: It is a very US-unique thing that the proliferation of guns is at the level it is. You cannot lower gun crime in the US by banning guns. There are simply too many out there. Chicago (and Illinois at large) tried it, and they have one of the highest gun crime rates in the US now. You could have the National Guard go around stripping every citizen of every lawfully owned firearm in the nation and there would still be [I]millions[/I] of stolen, unregistered, smuggled, and otherwise ambiguously obtained firearms circulating, now in the possession of criminals by majority. An armed, educated, and trained populace is the best way to handle gun crime in the US. The only things that scare a criminal with a gun are the cops and lawful citizens with guns. That's why more people having them is a good thing.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;51925411]It's objectively positive because it give people a way to defend themselves. Where the white man is afraid the gubment gon take his guns, minorities face real violence from said white men. When met with deadly force protests and sit ins aren't going to save your life, challenging it with deadly force might.[/QUOTE] Isn't that just how more people die?
Little consolation, I imagine in this "blame minorities/[i]them[/i] for everything" period of American history even defending yourself legally from violent persecution could still somehow leave you fucked over in the long run. Double standards and such.
[QUOTE=LuckyLuke;51925439]Isn't that just how more people die?[/QUOTE] Sometimes the threat of violence is enough to keep actual violence from happening.
[QUOTE=LuckyLuke;51925439]Isn't that just how more people die?[/QUOTE] If you commit a crime with a gun, I'm not sure what you're expecting. But to more directly answer your question, no. It discourages gun crime. In the event of a lethal force encounter involving a firearm, it gives the victim a chance at being something more than a sitting duck. We have a much different view of self-defense in the US: If someone is trying to kill you, it's perfectly fine to use that same level of force to protect your own life.
[QUOTE=LuckyLuke;51925439]Isn't that just how more people die?[/QUOTE] For a second let's pretend yes, sure, it means more people die. At the end of the day with whichever route you chose you didn't solve the core problem (ie racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc). Unless massive civil unrest were to occured we wouldn't see an increase in killing. Most gun violence revolves around gangs and drugs, both of which are perpetuated by racial and economic inequality. This more than anything acts as a deterrent, and keep in mind the mindset of most hard core ultra religious conservatives: "liberals are snow flakes who'd carry dildos over guns in the next civil war".
[QUOTE=download;51925243]Not surprised. If the NRA has any sense they'll use this to cultivate a left-wing gun culture.[/QUOTE] The NRA sucks, they're a right-wing organization and they push right-wing politics. They should have just stuck to guns.
Maybe this will kill the gun debate for a good long while and single issue gun voters will vote for more sensible candidates and politicians will come up with real solutions with actual long term benefits to the problems that cause our violence and crime in general.
[QUOTE=New Cidem;51925449]Little consolation, I imagine in this "blame minorities/[i]them[/i] for everything" period of American history even defending yourself legally from violent persecution could still somehow leave you fucked over in the long run. Double standards and such.[/QUOTE] It happens, but less in the derange political scene you're seeing and more in the Monday-Morning-Quaterbacking department. In the end, though, I heard a colloquialism that hits home pretty hard. "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6."
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51925370]what isn't awesome though is the fact a lot of LGBT, Blacks, Mexicans, etc feel like they're so scared that they're going out to buy firearms in significantly increased numbers for protection now I'm not all-seeing, but there might be a recent change in American politics responsible for this, in addition to the aftermath of the [b]hate-attack at a gay nightclub and black churches being burned down[/b][/QUOTE] We talking about the attack done by an Radical Islamist and the false flag church? Also I would say feeling scared and reality of statistically running into problems are two different things. I do implore those people to still legally seek out protection though if they are truly in an area that needs it.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;51925411]It's objectively positive because it give people a way to defend themselves. Where the white man is afraid the gubment gon take his guns, minorities face real violence from said white men. When met with deadly force protests and sit ins aren't going to save your life, challenging it with deadly force might.[/QUOTE] Minorities face very real violence from each over also and conservatives proposed them arming themselves to deter that and derpy libs shuffled their feet about it until they could tie it into politics. You just pulled the "but whitey" card for no apparent reason. We can blow right past the "gubermint" shit (I wonder if I would get banned for mocking the way Asians or blacks speak?) because plenty of people own guns for reasons above the whole tyranny thing. Shit you even said "the white man" How the fuck are you a mod on here?
[QUOTE=download;51925243]Not surprised. If the NRA has any sense they'll use this to cultivate a left-wing gun culture.[/QUOTE] you already know the NRA has zero sense. [editline]7th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=benwaddi;51925513]Minorities face very real violence from each over also and conservatives proposed them arming themselves to deter that and derpy libs shuffled their feet about it until they could tie it into politics. You just pulled the "but whitey" card for no apparent reason. We can blow right past the "gubermint" shit (I wonder if I would get banned for mocking the way Asians or blacks speak?) because plenty of people own guns for reasons above the whole tyranny thing. Shit you even said "the white man" How the fuck are you a mod on here?[/QUOTE] lmao fuck off, gun control was literally introduced by conservatives to disarm groups like the black panthers because they were uncomfortable with the idea of non-white people also having constitutional rights.
[QUOTE=New Cidem;51925449]Little consolation, I imagine in this "blame minorities/[i]them[/i] for everything" period of American history even defending yourself legally from violent persecution could still somehow leave you fucked over in the long run. Double standards and such.[/QUOTE] You mean they'd be fucked over by the law/judicial system in the long run, right?
[QUOTE=benwaddi;51925513]Minorities face very real violence from each over also and conservatives proposed them arming themselves to deter that and derpy libs shuffled their feet about it until they could tie it into politics. You just pulled the "but whitey" card for no apparent reason. We can blow right past the "gubermint" shit (I wonder if I would get banned for mocking the way Asians or blacks speak?) because plenty of people own guns for reasons above the whole tyranny thing. Shit you even said "the white man" How the fuck are you a mod on here?[/QUOTE] Kneejerk sensationalism is what got us into this mess, try not to contribute to it.
[QUOTE=1239the;51925518]lmao fuck off, gun control was literally introduced by conservatives to disarm groups like the black panthers because they were uncomfortable with the idea of non-white people also having constitutional rights.[/QUOTE] Plenty of conservatives backed minorities having guns though, I know you think the right is a monolithic racist entity but that's because your brains on fucking Pluto. Anyway what legislation are you talking about? The one that started life by being introduced by a Democrat? Also it's rude to tell people to fuck off.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51925290]Well, if people learn good gun handling/safety and a respect for the 2nd amendment, awesome.[/QUOTE] "It's good that people need a gun to defend themselves from the racist bigots my political party is promoting"
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;51925411]It's objectively positive because it give people a way to defend themselves. Where the white man is afraid the gubment gon take his guns, minorities face real violence from said white men. When met with deadly force protests and sit ins aren't going to save your life, challenging it with deadly force might.[/QUOTE] well I'd say it isn't positively objective if living conditions in America are getting worse and people are becoming more scared and have lost more rights in spite of having firearms also historically minorities using firearms to defend themselves doesn't work. the native americans learned that the hard way - and I doubt the Japanese Americans in WW2 could have allowed to use their second amendment rights
Miniorities? So Trumps voterbase?
[QUOTE=SirJon;51925604]Miniorities? So Trumps voterbase?[/QUOTE] Trump won by a minority of votes, but minorities is a different group
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51925599]well I'd say it isn't positively objective if living conditions in America are getting worse and people are becoming more scared and have lost more rights in spite of having firearms also historically minorities using firearms to defend themselves doesn't work. the native americans learned that the hard way - and I doubt the Japanese Americans in WW2 could have allowed to use their second amendment rights[/QUOTE] The argument was that LGBT people are arming up to protect themselves and how it positively impacts them. An easily victimized group of people is beginning to embrace and take the steps necessary to not be victimized.
[QUOTE=Sonador;51925610]The argument was that LGBT people are arming up to protect themselves and how it positively impacts them. An easily victimized group of people is beginning to embrace and take the steps necessary to not be victimized.[/QUOTE] Carrying a gun doesnt make you less victimised if the laws of the land keep changing to hate and discriminate against you more. A gun isnt gonna help you gain access to HRT or the right bathroom. What is instead gonna happen is right wing freaks might take this as a declaration of war and we might have more violence.
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