Swans frontman Michael Gira accused of raping former collaborator Larkin Grimm
41 replies, posted
[quote]“It took me a long time to admit that to myself. Years. Michael Gira, my producer, raped me and dumped me from his label when I confronted him about it,” says Grimm.
Singer-songwriter Larkin Grimm released a statement on Facebook today accusing Swans frontman Michael Gira of raping her during the recording of her album Parplar, which was produced by Gira and released on his label Young God Records in 2008. She also alleges that Gira dropped her from Young God after being confronted about the incident.
The post includes a show of support for Kesha, arriving a matter of days after a New York Supreme Court judge ruled the pop singer must remain in her contract with the producer she alleges sexually assaulted and emotionally abused her.
We have reached out to Michael Gira for comment.[/quote]
[url]http://www.factmag.com/2016/02/26/larkin-grimm-swans-michael-gira-rape/[/url]
Wonderful, another claim posted to social media without evidence--not that there is likely to be any at this point--so that everyone can form an opinion and condemn one side as a rapist or the other side as a liar without any hope of actual closure.
Read through the article, she's got enough background information and can recall exactly what has happened prior, and post events. She shouldn't have any problems dealing with this in court.
[quote]A little bit later I woke up with his penis inside me, no condom. As I opened my eyes, he said, “Uh, this doesn’t feel right.” and he pulled out.
The next morning, Michael begged me not to tell his wife about what happened. I drove home, numb. Then I took my bike around the block and got hit by a car, injuring my hip. [/quote]
[QUOTE=Laferio;49815860]Read through the article, she's got enough background information and can recall exactly what has happened prior, and post events. She shouldn't have any problems dealing with this in court.[/QUOTE]
And you aren't considering lying a possibility?
[QUOTE=gokiyono;49817130]And you aren't considering lying a possibility?[/QUOTE]
Oh boy, here we go.
[QUOTE=DaMastez;49815789]Wonderful, another claim posted to social media without evidence--not that there is likely to be any at this point--so that everyone can form an opinion and condemn one side as a rapist or the other side as a liar without any hope of actual closure.[/QUOTE]
More like 'so that everyone can condemn her as a liar and the alleged rapist as innocent'
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;49817140]More like 'so that everyone can condemn her as a liar and the alleged rapist as innocent'[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;49817139]Oh boy, here we go.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=gokiyono;49817130]And you aren't considering lying a possibility?[/QUOTE]
At this point anything is a possibility- she could be lying, or she could be telling the truth.
Honestly, we don't know. It's not my duty to take either possibility as truth. Though with those statements of hers e.g car accident on her way home, then it should be in her medical records of when she was admitted into the hospital (assuming she was).
The statement of, "she shouldn't have any problems dealing with this in court" easily goes both ways.
[QUOTE=Laferio;49817212]At this point anything is a possibility- she could be lying, or she could be telling the truth.
Honestly, we don't know. It's not my duty to take either possibility as truth. Though with those statements of hers e.g car accident on her way home, then it should be in her medical records of when she was admitted into the hospital (assuming she was).
The statement of, "she shouldn't have any problems dealing with this in court" easily goes both ways.[/QUOTE]
I think it was just your wording that seemed too.. One-sided
Wonder where this'll go.. Probably nowhere
His wife's statement:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/utbmrPA.png[/IMG]
Reeeeeaaally hope it didn't happen, if I had to pick a favorite artist it'd probably be Gira.
Bullshit. Absolute bullshit.
I've met Gira several times. He is one of the kindest, most understanding people I have ever met. This is just some hack pulling the rape card.
[QUOTE=GayIlluminati;49817489]Bullshit. Absolute bullshit.
I've met Gira several times. He is one of the kindest, most understanding people I have ever met. This is just some hack pulling the rape card.[/QUOTE]
You can be a kind, thoughtful person in public and a fucking demon in private.
Profiling rapists is super hard because, unsurprisingly, human psychology is complex. Don't just assume someone isn't a rapist if they're accused because they appear nice. Let the legal system attempt to deal with it (though with the age of this case, it'd be exceptionally hard to prove even if he is guilty).
[QUOTE=GayIlluminati;49817489]Bullshit. Absolute bullshit.
I've met Gira several times. He is one of the kindest, most understanding people I have ever met. This is just some hack pulling the rape card.[/QUOTE]
Not saying he did it but that's not a good enough reason to be like "Nah it's bullshit"
I'm sorry, but this just reeks of a lackluster artist being dropped from a label and taking revenge for it by ruining the man she percieves to be responsible for her ejection. I don't fucking buy it.
[QUOTE=Singed;49817289]His wife's statement:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/utbmrPA.png[/IMG]
Reeeeeaaally hope it didn't happen, if I had to pick a favorite artist it'd probably be Gira.[/QUOTE]
Woah she sounds just as mental as the person she's discredtiing
Imagine if your significant other was accused baselessly of sexual violence. Would you be calm and composed?
There should be some law or something in place to stop people from accusing other people of rape on social networks before contacting the authorities. We shouldn't hear of this until it goes to court.
[QUOTE=Buck.;49817633]There should be some law or something in place to stop people from accusing other people of rape on social networks before contacting the authorities. We shouldn't hear of this until it goes to court.[/QUOTE]
Honestly I feel like this is how it should be. All posting this stuff on social networks does is cause stupid arguments where people baselessly pick a side because of their own preconceived notions of the individuals at hand rather than any evidence.
We have no clue who's telling the truth at this point in time, so until they go to court, I'm going to just go with how our legal system is structured: [i]innocent until proven guilty[/i].
Just like how with any scientific claim works, the burden of proof lies with the person making the claim in the first place.
[QUOTE=Buck.;49817633]There should be some law or something in place to stop people from accusing other people of rape on social networks before contacting the authorities. We shouldn't hear of this until it goes to court.[/QUOTE]
Shouldn't it, by all rights, fall under defamation?
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;49817971]We have no clue who's telling the truth at this point in time, so until they go to court, I'm going to just go with how our legal system is structured: [i]innocent until proven guilty[/i].[/QUOTE]
Which, for the umpteenth time, goes both ways. He's not guilty of rape just because she said he is, and she's not guilty of libel just because he said she is. A de facto gag order on public accusation may sound like a great way to get rid of this he-said-she-said, but it's effectively presuming that an accuser is lying until they go to court and prove that they're not.
Plus, to take your reasoning to its logical conclusion, a person who is formally charged would not be able to call their accuser a liar in public, since that would be making the positive claim that the accuser is committing libel or slander. Does that seem right?
What [i]should[/i] happen is that people take social media claims with a grain of salt and simply wait for the trial to resolve. People talking about a case is nothing new, the issue isn't that they're making public accusations but how those accusations are handled by the public.
[QUOTE=Buck.;49817633]There should be some law or something in place to stop people from accusing other people of rape on social networks before contacting the authorities. We shouldn't hear of this until it goes to court.[/QUOTE]
I think a law like that could violate the 1st amendment.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;49817505]You can be a kind, thoughtful person in public and a fucking demon in private.
Profiling rapists is super hard because, unsurprisingly, human psychology is complex. Don't just assume someone isn't a rapist if they're accused because they appear nice. Let the legal system attempt to deal with it (though with the age of this case, it'd be exceptionally hard to prove even if he is guilty).[/QUOTE]
How many people have said "Him? I had no idea! he was one of the sweetest people I've ever met!" about a serial murderer? It's a lot. Character witness is neither proof nor disproof of wrongdoing.
[QUOTE=Buck.;49817633]There should be some law or something in place to stop people from accusing other people of rape on social networks before contacting the authorities. We shouldn't hear of this until it goes to court.[/QUOTE]
It's called slander/libel. Generally pretty good cases for a counter-suit.
He just released a new statement about it:
[url]http://pitchfork.com/news/63799-swans-michael-gira-issues-statement-on-larkin-grimm-rape-accusations/[/url]
[quote]Eight years ago, while I was still married to my first wife, Larkin Grimm and I headed towards a consensual romantic moment that fortunately was not consummated. As she wrote in her recent social media postings about that night, I said to her, "this doesn't feel right," and abruptly but completely our only intimate encounter ended. It was an awkward mistake.
Larkin may regret, as I certainly do, that the ill-advised tryst went even that far, but now, as then, I hold her in high esteem for her music and her courage as an artist.
I long ago apologized to my wife and family and told them the truth about this incident. My hope is that Larkin finds peace with the demons that have been darkening her soul since long before she and I ever met.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Swiket;49821583]He just released a new statement about it:
[url]http://pitchfork.com/news/63799-swans-michael-gira-issues-statement-on-larkin-grimm-rape-accusations/[/url][/QUOTE]
This is more or less of an admission of guilt. Sucks he had to downplay it, but what else do you expect?
[QUOTE=axelord157;49821893]This is more or less of an admission of guilt. Sucks he had to downplay it, but what else do you expect?[/QUOTE]
a trial of something other than "public opinion" lol
[QUOTE=axelord157;49821893]This is more or less of an admission of guilt. Sucks he had to downplay it, but what else do you expect?[/QUOTE]
So he's admitting the night happened but that it ended when it got awkward? Sounds like he's saying the night happened but there was no rape involved.
No one on the internet has proof either way so pointless speculation will get us no where.
The fact is that if Larkin is telling the truth, Michael is a terrible person and if Michael is telling the truth Larkin is a terrible person. I don't see what else you can say on the issue.
[QUOTE=axelord157;49821893]This is more or less of an admission of guilt. Sucks he had to downplay it, but what else do you expect?[/QUOTE]
The only thing he's admitting is that there was an affair, but he's claiming it was consensual and that there was no consummation.
[QUOTE=catbarf;49818133]A de facto gag order on public accusation may sound like a great way to get rid of this he-said-she-said, but it's effectively presuming that an accuser is lying until they go to court and prove that they're not.[/QUOTE]
Good, that's the point of a court of law, to decide innocence or guilt. Too many people have their lives fucked by accusations. Nothing worthwhile comes out of these public accusations anyway; nothing of value would be lost by such a law being enacted.
[quote]Plus, to take your reasoning to its logical conclusion, a person who is formally charged would not be able to call their accuser a liar in public, since that would be making the positive claim that the accuser is committing libel or slander. Does that seem right?[/quote]
The gag order should continue until a verdict is reached; it should not be publicized, and further it should be illegal to publicize, anything about an ongoing case, let alone a case not even brought up to the police unless the accused so chooses to make that information public. At most, all that should be known by the general public is that a person was arrested (because that isn't something that should be kept secret), period. The charges, the accuser, etc... should not be public knowledge. If the charges are dropped or the accused is found not-guilty, the charge should never be made public unless the accused so chooses to make them public.
[quote]What [I]should[/I] happen is that people take social media claims with a grain of salt and simply wait for the trial to resolve. People talking about a case is nothing new, the issue isn't that they're making public accusations but how those accusations are handled by the public.[/quote]
Well now everyone has a massive soapbox from which to shout because of the Internet. I don't think anything has changed about how accusations are handled by the public, just that far more of the public can see an accusation.
It's honestly a lot like early access; so many people don't have an understanding of how something really works (innocent until proven guilty for the former, game development for the latter) and instead of attempting to understand they just act like idiots.
[QUOTE=Zethiwag;49817526]Woah she sounds just as mental as the person she's discredtiing[/QUOTE]
Your husband gets accused of something which you know he didnt do BUT can, will and most probably have already affected his public image, plus the fact he will have to pay to the court as well as serve jail sentence (if this ever gets court case)
Not talking about the fact that she knows about rape attempts from first hand experience
There is quite a big list for her on the line.
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