Russians favour Soviet "Democracy" over Western forms of democracy
65 replies, posted
[QUOTE]The majority of Russians believe their country needs a form of "democracy" that is substantially different from that practiced in the West, a recent poll shows.
Asked what form of democracy would suit Russia, if at all, only 13 percent of respondents said that a Western-style democracy could work for their country, and only 5 percent saw it as a necessity for Russia's development, according to a survey by independent Levada Center pollster released Tuesday.
A more popular choice was the form of "democracy" practiced in the Soviet Union, which was favored as the best option for Russia by 16 percent of respondents.
Questioned specifically on whether Western-style democracies were an option for Russia, 45 percent of respondents said it would be "destructive" for the country, while another 39 percent found it an acceptable option but only in case of "substantial changes related to our country's specifics," the poll indicates.
The majority of respondents, 55 percent, said that the only form of democracy that could work for Russia was one that was "completely unique, corresponding to national traditions and Russia's specifics," according to the Levada Center report.
The notion of "osoby put," or special path, has historically enjoyed much support in Russia. According to that concept, Russia has its own, unique path of development, distinct from Western or Eastern trajectories.
Asked to what extent they saw themselves as belonging to a Western civilization, a large majority of respondents, 43 percent, said they did not identify with the West at all. Only 14 percent said Western culture played a role in their lives.
The poll did not specify whether Russia's "specific" democracy should include fair elections, free speech, independent courts or the freedom to assemble without permission from the authorities — all aspects that have come under stress under the nearly 15-year reign of President Vladimir Putin's administration.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/more-russians-favor-soviet-than-western-form-of-democracy-poll-shows/510286.html[/url]
Nice! Now we can finally push voter turnout from 120% to [B]160%![/B]
Technically, but I wouldn't say that 16% is a major improvement above 13% wanting Western style democracy.
Really there's no major difference, it means Russians would rather have neither.
Special Russian style democracy: you can choose anyone you want out of the one candidates!
Surprise, there are other forms of government in the world, and some people think they're better than our form of government.
And some Americans want to go back to the confederacy that tore the country in half and plunged us into civil war.
[QUOTE]The majority of respondents, 55 percent, said that the only form of democracy that could work for Russia was one that was "completely unique, corresponding to national traditions and Russia's specifics," according to the Levada Center report.[/QUOTE]
Which makes sense since Russia is the largest country in the world with turbulent past. To be honest i am clad that they didn't want to go back to soviet times as much. Seeing how some people there are looking for the "good" old days and forgetting how bad they actually were.
The good old days of having no food in your supermarkets
[QUOTE=Complifused;46360464]The good old days of having no food in your supermarkets[/QUOTE]
Democracy isn't the only political set up that feeds people matey.
[QUOTE=Complifused;46360464]The good old days of having no food in your supermarkets[/QUOTE]
The old good old days of being arrested for discussing politics.
Aaah Salazar and his PIDE.
Jesus christ people
There's no "Democracy" or "republic" that is based on unique traditions.
Otherwise, that's not a democracy nor a republic
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;46360561]Jesus christ people
There's no "Democracy" or "republic" that is based on unique traditions.
Otherwise, that's not a democracy nor a republic[/QUOTE]
It's just bullshit that they say to excuse their strongman oligarchy.
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;46360561]Jesus christ people
There's no "Democracy" or "republic" that is based on unique traditions.
Otherwise, that's not a democracy nor a republic[/QUOTE]
There are different types of democracy you know. Some better (more stable, more representative) than others.
America's political system is different from the UK is different from germany. Part of that difference is based on traditions and unique history of the nations involved.
democracy isn't and has never been compatible with russia.
i don't know why people keep expecting russia to follow the same democratic criteria of european or north american governments when it's clearly not what the people want nor is it an actually good idea on paper.
it's even funnier when people are so bewildered that there are people in different parts of the world who believe in different types of governments that they either berate or look down upon those people as if they're stagnant or 'worse than us'.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;46360606]There are different types of democracy you know. Some better (more stable, more representative) than others.
America's political system is different from the UK is different from germany. Part of that difference is based on traditions and unique history of the nations involved.[/QUOTE]
No, UK system is pretty much the same as Germany's. Coalitions are formed which in turn after winning the majority in the Parliament, allow the Exec Power to choose the Prime Minister. Support for the PM can be withdrawn which would lead to the Parl breaking up and calling for new elections.
And germany's system is not based on traditions nor unique history.
A political system is not based on that or that. It's based on whether it works and if it sustains itself through time != Unique history/Tradition.
But those types are not "British System", "american system", and that's what I mean. They are "Parliamentarism or Presidentialism". Saying that the russians should have their own type of democracy....it's stupid.
How can the russians have a democratic system based on their "history", if they only got democracy no more than 30 years ago?
Its like saying, that the Argentines, in the 1816, should have a democracy based on their history etc etc. There's no way for that, since they didn't have any democracy before.
The joke's on them, they already have it
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;46360522]The old good old days of being arrested for discussing politics.
Aaah Salazar and his PIDE.[/QUOTE]
According to my granma, "being arrested for discussing politics" was something so simple as just simply saying "I do not like Salazar" and getting arrested for it.
"BUT THERE WAS RESPECT BACK THEN!" lol k
"Thank Putin we're oppressed at last!"
[QUOTE=Melnek;46360610]democracy isn't and has never been compatible with russia.[/QUOTE]
The liberal reforms of the 19th century pretty much proved that Russia does have the capability to become a democracy based on rule of law. The democratic movements in Poland, Finland, the Baltic states, Ukraine, etc come to mind.
The problem was the last two tsars were hyper-reactionary and wishing to rule the old Russia, and most reform attempts (there were no shortage of well meaning Russians) ended up being foiled largely by unwillingness at the top. WW1 and the revolutions in addition to the civil war merely confirmed what had been decided years before by the tsars.
I think today still, democracy is compatible with Russia, but careful steps should be taken.
[QUOTE=Melnek;46360610]democracy isn't and has never been compatible with russia.
i don't know why people keep expecting russia to follow the same democratic criteria of european or north american governments when it's clearly not what the people want nor is it an actually good idea on paper.
it's even funnier when people are so bewildered that there are people in different parts of the world who believe in different types of governments that they either berate or look down upon those people as if they're stagnant or 'worse than us'.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand how people can actually believe that democracy is a universal construct that works everywhere and act all "wake up sheeple and accept hte superior way of life", but they do. On global scale [sp]USA[/sp].
Seriously. I mean I understand USA just uses it as an excuse to meddle with everyone's internal affairs, but it's still annoying how they demand every country to be democratic in all kinds of ways they imagine.
Not to mention that democracy has a lot of issues in fudamental parts. It's mainly about it turning into plotucracy at some point - the rich decide what happens.
I am not surprised Russians don't want the western type because getting democracy shown down our throats (or attempted to) has alienated many.
[editline]29th October 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Deng;46360893]The liberal reforms of the 19th century pretty much proved that Russia does have the capability to become a democracy based on rule of law. The democratic movements in Poland, Finland, the Baltic states, Ukraine, etc come to mind.
.[/QUOTE]
Democracy in Ukraine? Don't even get me started. If anything attempts to build democracy in Ukraine show how pointless it is to even try establishing democracy in Russia. Because Ukraine for the most part of it shares the same mentality as Russia.
The other countries you mentioned were never Russian. They were occupied by USSR, but that never transfered the unique Russian mentality to them. They were always more european and 60 years of occupation didn't suddenly make them ethnically and culturaly russian. I am not saying USSR didnt have an impact on them, but they spent more time being independent and a part of europe then being "russian".
Just saying Russia != Poland != Baltic states etc
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46360907]I don't understand how people can actually believe that democracy is a universal construct that works everywhere and act all "wake up sheeple and accept hte superior way of life", but they do. On global scale [sp]USA[/sp].
Seriously. I mean I understand USA just uses it as an excuse to meddle with everyone's internal affairs, but it's still annoying how they demand every country to be democratic in all kinds of ways they imagine.
Not to mention that democracy has a lot of issues in fudamental parts. It's mainly about it turning into plotucracy at some point - the rich decide what happens.
I am not surprised Russians don't want the western type because getting democracy shown down our throats (or attempted to) has alienated many.[/QUOTE]
How does democracy (in particular) turn into a plutocracy? Yeah, sure, the US has lobbying, but wealthy people rule Russia at the very least as they rule than in the US.
As a Dane I of course think Democracy is a superior and more advanced form of government, but I can definitely see how it wouldn't work in some regions of the world - at least right now. Some of the most stable nations in the middle east are kingdoms and dictatorships.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;46360265]And some Americans want to go back to the confederacy that tore the country in half and plunged us into civil war.[/QUOTE]
The South will rise again.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46360907]Democracy in Ukraine? Don't even get me started. If anything attempts to build democracy in Ukraine show how pointless it is to even try establishing democracy in Russia. Because Ukraine for the most part of it shares the same mentality as Russia.[/quote]
The Ukrainian socialist parties did pretty well in building a base of popular support in the late 19th century, that ultimately laid much of the groundwork for the creation of a national Ukrainian identity and attempts to form a separate state.
[quote]The other countries you mentioned were never Russian.[/QUOTE]
They had also all been run by the Russian Empire. Finland was granted greater autonomy by the tsars and eventually built up its own native democratic institutions. The Baltic states had the feudal system dismantled under Russian rule and developed their own nations. The Polish gained some rights and lost them depending on which tsar was in power. Similar movements for political and economic reform happened in the rest of the Empire too.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;46360961]Democracy is a universal construct that works everywhere because of its flexibility, and USA's democracy is a shitty one. I am not a die-hard democracy fanatic, in fact I don't really like democracy, but one shouldn't get democarcy as a dogma; it is extremely flexible, and changes from country to country. Voting methods, parties, people's interpretation, turnout etc. decide, there are lots of factors.[/QUOTE]
It clearly doesn't work in the Middle East. I mean it didn't work in Afghanistan, it didn't work in Iraq, it didn't work in Yemen, it didn't work anywhere US tried to put it. And US did nothing wrong trying to establish a democratic government that would sustain itself, control the region and keep it civilized. They just didn't understand how it never worked due to mentalities.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46360985]It clearly doesn't work in the Middle East. I mean it didn't work in Afghanistan, it didn't work in Iraq, it didn't work in Yemen, it didn't work anywhere US tried to put it. And US did nothing wrong trying to establish a democratic government that would sustain itself, control the region and keep it civilized. They just didn't understand how it never worked due to mentalities.[/QUOTE]
Democracy is something that is best introduced from the bottom up rather than being imposed from the top down. American attempts fail of course, but it's quite obvious that a lot of places which have little to no history of democratic tradition (Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Turkey, Botswana) do have the capability to introduce them given the correct conditions. Not to mention the success of many eastern european and balkan countries to reform themselves (some have even joined the EU despite being in bloody civil wars as recently as the 1990s).
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;46361011]If you ask my opinion, I'm personally in favor of a weighted voting system based on education. But dunno how that might work out.[/QUOTE]
How is this any better than a plutocracy?
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46360907]Democracy in Ukraine? Don't even get me started. If anything attempts to build democracy in Ukraine show how pointless it is to even try establishing democracy in Russia. Because Ukraine for the most part of it shares the same mentality as Russia.
The other countries you mentioned were never Russian. They were occupied by USSR, but that never transfered the [b]unique Russian mentality[/b] to them. They were always more european and 60 years of occupation didn't suddenly make them ethnically and culturaly russian. I am not saying USSR didnt have an impact on them, but they spent more time being independent and a part of europe then being "russian".
Just saying Russia != Poland != Baltic states etc[/QUOTE]
Can you explain this "unique Russian mentality" to me?
[QUOTE=Deng;46360977]The Ukrainian socialist parties did pretty well in building a base of popular support in the late 19th century, that ultimately laid much of the groundwork for the creation of a national Ukrainian identity and attempts to form a separate state.
.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that Ukraine had no national identity to begin with as it was a mashup of territories with different ethnic groups.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;46361039]1. I didn't complain about plutocracy, where?
2. And hows it related, I said education, not wealth or land.[/QUOTE]
The two things are often connected, though.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;46361039]1. I didn't complain about plutocracy, where?
2. And hows it related, I said education, not wealth or land.[/QUOTE]
Yeah sorry, that was muffin, I changed my post.
Education is consistently related to wealth and opportunity.
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