• The U.S. are drifting towards fascism
    136 replies, posted
Fascist states have, according to Dr. Laurence Britt, a political scientist (he studied the fascist regimes of: Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Suharto, and Pinochet), a handful of characteristics in common. [B]——— Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism[/B] From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia. See: most of the international affairs the U.S. have decided to take care of, the point of view of most American citizens on the ongoing Japan nuclear affair (it's payback for Pearl Harbor! :downs:) [B]——— Disdain for the importance of human rights[/B] The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation. See: the first amendment is a joke. [QUOTE=CabooseRvB;28690805]the Writ of Habeas Corpus has been suspended under the PATRIOT ACT and technically any American Citizen can be blackbagged, taken into a truck, and tossed into a hole in Cuba and be forgotten.[/QUOTE] [B]——— Rampant sexism[/B] Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were [U]adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic[/U]. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses. See: defunding of Planned Parenthood and destruction of reproductive rights for women. [B]——— A controlled mass media[/B] Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses. See: We're not just there yet, but there's the defunding of National Public Radio, and especially the bill that made it illegal for news outlets to lie that was voided (hello Fox News!), etc. [B]——— Obsession with national security[/B] Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous. See: TSA, Homeland Security. You're automatically labeled as terrorist if you attempt to resist them. [B]——— Power of corporations protected[/B] Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens. See: about anything related to laws that were lobbied-for in the House or the Senate — tax cuts, etc. [B]——— Power of labor suppressed or eliminated[/B] Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice. See: Wisconsin giving the finger to Union Rights. [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12791155[/url] [B]——— Obsession with crime and punishment[/B] Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power. See: scaremongering in the media. [B]——— The supremacy of militarism & disdain/suppression of intellectuals/arts[/B] Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist. See: right after defunding NPR, the republicans voted to continue the War in Iraq. Military gets 27% of the taxpayer's dollars, versus 5% for Education. [B]———Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause[/B] The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly. Let me finish with this video which hits the nail right on the head: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txe6F1EGIqM[/media] ([I]source: [url]http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm[/url][/I]) And remember, guys. If you're American, over 18, and you can vote, DO SO. A vote can never be "wasted" — don't ever believe that. [url=http://elections.gmu.edu/voter_turnout.htm]You can't get close to democracy with such turnout rates[/url].
It's what I'm afraid of, and I'm starting to agree with the OP. It won't happen for a while yet, but eventually, it will. It must if the US is to survive. Society moves in such cycling patterns, from the far left of the spectrum to the far right, then back again. And unfortunately, we're heading East.
You could have saved yourself the thousand words and accomplished the same thing by saying [i]Republicans, Republicans, Republicans[/i] (disclaimer: This isn't a message of support for democrats nor anything related to conservatives versus liberals. most of what he listed is supported by republicans: FISA, PATRIOT, denial of separation of church and state, wealthy tax breaks, killing the health care bill, worker's rights, invading other countries, and so on. my point is that it's more of a class war than left/right)
[QUOTE=Athena;28690354]You could have saved yourself the thousand words and accomplished the same thing by saying [i]Republicans, Republicans, Republicans[/i][/QUOTE] There's an ongoing argument that states that the Republicans and the Democrats are, after all, the same — it's a gross and wrong generalization, except for [I]one[/I] thing: they give in too much to corporations, which is one of the biggest points in the OP. This isn't hitting on Republicans, and nothing else. It's a global problem!
Thanks Glen!
The concept of the separation of state and church starting to disappear in the U.S, and the xenophobia is a big problem too.
It's just natural for this to happen. Via fascism you can express your might and power more easily, control people, etc.
[QUOTE=Max of S2D;28690400]There's an ongoing argument that states that the Republicans and the Democrats are, after all, the same — it's a gross and wrong generalization, except for [I]one[/I] thing: they give in too much to corporations, which is one of the biggest points in the OP. This isn't hitting on Republicans, and nothing else. It's a global problem![/QUOTE] No the main problem is the bipartisan system which basically polarizes people as much as possible and the fact that lobbying is allowed to happen. Why listen to the people when you can listen to a multibilliondollar conglomerate that hands you money hand over fist to get what they want?
I recommend everyone here to read Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism: The points he makes have so many parallels with America it's ridiculous, I was actually planning on making a thread on this with more of a focus on luddites in America.
I'm moving to Canada ASAP anyway, so v:v:v
[QUOTE=Athena;28690444]No the main problem is the bipartisan system which basically polarizes people as much as possible and the fact that lobbying is allowed to happen. Why listen to the people when you can listen to a multibilliondollar conglomerate that hands you money hand over fist to get what they want?[/QUOTE] While the polarization [B]is[/B] a problem, I personally think it's nowhere near as bad as people make it to be. Voting for a third party is not wasting your vote — allowing the polarization to keep existing by voting Dems or Reps because you think you're gonna waste your vote otherwise is the biggest peeve.
Not everything bad is the Republicans fault. That said, we should be spending more money on education, and I honestly do believe that the upper tiers should be taxed more.
[QUOTE=Max of S2D;28690309] From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia. See: most of the international affairs the U.S. have decided to take care of, the point of view of most American citizens on the ongoing Japan nuclear affair (it's payback for Pearl Harbor! :downs:)[/QUOTE] Germany has a surge of patriotism and nationalism during the FIFA World Cup when they hosted it. Are you calling them a fascist state? [QUOTE=Max of S2D;28690309][B]——— Disdain for the importance of human rights[/B] The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation. See: the first amendment is a joke. [/QUOTE] See Westboro Baptist Church [QUOTE=Max of S2D;28690309][B]——— Rampant sexism[/B] Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were [U]adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic[/U]. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses. See: defunding of Planned Parenthood and destruction of reproductive rights for women. [/QUOTE] Recent Presidents have been appointing more females into their offices in order to make their organizations more diverse and accepting to the public eye. This trend is being followed by a number of other corporations. See: Oprah Winfrey [QUOTE=Max of S2D;28690309][B]——— A controlled mass media[/B] Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses. See: We're not just there yet, but there's the defunding of National Public Radio, and especially the bill that made it illegal for news outlets to lie that was voided (hello Fox News!), etc.[/QUOTE] The Media goes by what the General Public wants. The General Public is retarded in America. Fox News appeals to a very large, and stupid audience by hosting very popular TV shows such as the Simpsons and House and air certain aspects of news that would appeal to their local audiences (car chases, minority children murdered, etc.) the power-elite view is not very credible since the government is not backing up any media outlet. Nor that there has been any powerful monopolies established in the Media (though there are some big ones) due to the FCC. Ironically, the government also owns the Television and Radios in the U.S. and yet they do not have any government-backed News Sources [QUOTE=Max of S2D;28690309][B]——— Power of corporations protected[/B] Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens. See: about anything related to laws that were lobbied-for in the House or the Senate — tax cuts, etc.[/QUOTE] Have you missed on the agencies created by Congress that have a shit-ton of discretionary authority on their hands? The EPA can close down factories or prevent the construction of any kind of building if the corporation/organization does not file an Environmental Impact Report. There are a large number of agencies and bureaucracies that do the job of executing the law, such responsibility granted in the Constitution. [QUOTE=Max of S2D;28690309][B]——— Power of labor suppressed or eliminated[/B] Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice. See: Wisconsin giving the finger to Union Rights. [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12791155[/url][/QUOTE] A majority of southern states in the Union have already taken down collective bargaining rights. This does not apply to the rest of the Union [QUOTE=Max of S2D;28690309][B]——— Obsession with crime and punishment[/B] Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power. See: scaremongering in the media.[/QUOTE] Media gives what people wants. [QUOTE=Max of S2D;28690309][B]——— The supremacy of militarism & disdain/suppression of intellectuals/arts[/B] Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist. See: right after defunding NPR, the republicans voted to continue the War in Iraq. Military gets 27% of the taxpayer's dollars, versus 5% for Education.[/QUOTE] Republicans have dominated the Congress for the past decade or so. They have shifted the defense budget to become the highest priority and it has been ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union. The Democrats have just recently taken the Executive and have hardly any control with in the Legislative, in the next General Election, it would be likely that the Democrats may take more seats and therefore be able to balance the budget and allocate more money to progressive things such as education. [QUOTE=Max of S2D;28690309][B]———Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause[/B] The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.[/QUOTE] That's the people's fault, not the regime.
The U.S isn't becoming fascist, it is however becoming more and more dictated by corporations who lobby and pass bills through bribery. If you notice for a lot of US politicians they are funded usually by big companies who want them specifically in power for some reason, usually to try and pass some bills or laws. This isn't anything new though, even the Romans had stuff like this going on - and it is one of the reasons the Roman empire crumbled.
[QUOTE=Max of S2D;28690504]While the polarization [B]is[/B] a problem, I personally think it's nowhere near as bad as people make it to be. Voting for a third party is not wasting your vote — allowing the polarization to keep existing by voting Dems or Reps because you think you're gonna waste your vote otherwise is the biggest peeve.[/QUOTE] This is a huge problem because it's no longer "I'm voting this guy because I like him", it's "I'm voting against the other guy because [i]he hates america[/i]". And it is wasting your vote. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo#t=5m00s[/media] [quote]The U.S isn't becoming fascist, it is however becoming more and more dictated by corporations who lobby and pass bills through bribery This isn't anything new though, even the Romans had stuff like this going on - and it is one of the reasons the Roman empire crumbled.[/quote] I know that word has lost its meaning because every hip 20-something uses it like it's going out of style but that is the exact definition of fascism.
It's because we keep trying to make everything easier and easier for stupid people, eventually the only way to keep stupid people from doing stupid shit is giving them NO choice of what to do in life, and everything will be totalitarian.
Drifting? Really? :v:
I don't see a problem on being nationalistic/patriotic, the ones who say "payback for pearl harbor" are just rednecks, fools, or just kidding.
The problem is the US government isn't really in power, its big businesses that control it. The US government is a puppet model and it does sound cliche I know. The reason why the government itself won't become a fascist state is because you have the constitution, and Americans are very patriotic on the bill, so the US government wouldn't be able to get very far with controlling everything (Fascism meaning advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government). However you have big business, and they usually have agendas. The US media outlets are all controlled by big companies who spout bias agenda suited media to make you support something they want, rather than giving you real journalism and news (Fox News, CNN etc). It isn't really the US government that is trying to make you support things and do things. The whole red scare situation in the 50's was started by big business who were worried that people might start demanding more rights and better working unions.
[QUOTE=Hole;28690705]I don't see a problem on being nationalistic/patriotic, the ones who say "payback for pearl harbor" are just rednecks, fools, or just kidding.[/QUOTE] Being patriotic is fine, there is nothing wrong with that. Believing your country can do no wrong, or at least believing that it is your duty to support your country's policies no matter what because that what being a patriot is all about is the problem.
It's very funny since the OP did not include the most strongest argument that America is drifting towards Fascism by not mentioning the fact that the Writ of Habeas Corpus has been suspended under the PATRIOT ACT and technically any American Citizen can be blackbagged, taken into a truck, and tossed into a hole in Cuba and be forgotten.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;28690805]It's very funny since the OP did not include the most strongest argument that America is drifting towards Fascism by not mentioning the fact that the Writ of Habeas Corpus has been suspended under the PATRIOT ACT and technically any American Citizen can be blackbagged, taken into a truck, and tossed into a hole in Cuba and be forgotten.[/QUOTE] Thanks, adding that — got any source on that info?
I should also mention that the Iron Triangle between the congressman's constituents, the congressman himself, and the organization meant to appeal to the constituents is also very, very strong in the Capitol. As every single member of Congress has the greatest self-interest of being kept in office, they will continue to appeal to their constituents and interest groups stationed with in their states. America will not become Libya.
[QUOTE=Fetret;28690771]Being patriotic is fine, there is nothing wrong with that. Believing your country can do no wrong, or at least believing that it is your duty to support your country's policies no matter what because that what being a patriot is all about is the problem.[/QUOTE]That's not patriotism, being a true patriot is helping your country get through horrible events that another nation(s), or your own leader(s) have brought down upon you. Atleast it's my belief that I love my country and land but I would do anything to see it get through harsh times. Well, that's my definition of being a patriot.
There is also a formula in determining how free a country is. Count how many lawyers they have.
I don't remember me saying people are free in USA, but it's kinda foolish people really want to deny them the right to believe so.
Power corrupts.
[QUOTE=User;28690971]Power corrupts.[/QUOTE]Hitler was a good man.
[QUOTE=Hole;28690930]That's not patriotism, being a true patriot is helping your country get through horrible events that another nation(s), or your own leader(s) have brought down upon you. Atleast it's my belief that I love my country and land but I would do anything to see it get through harsh times. Well, that's my definition of being a patriot.[/QUOTE] Yes, if only everyone followed your definition of patriotism there would be far less trouble.
[QUOTE=Fetret;28691032]Yes, if only everyone followed your definition of patriotism there would be far less trouble.[/QUOTE] Too bad people don't. (That's the reason I believe some people aren't patriotic as they act.)
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