• Watch a level from Deus Ex: Human Revolution Director's Cut
    39 replies, posted
[url]http://www.shacknews.com/article/80825/watch-a-level-from-deus-ex-human-revolution-directors-cut[/url]
Kinda cool that they expanded the boss fight a bit so there's more than just taking Barett head-on. Too bad he probably just patrols that room endlessly like an idiot and the fact that you have to kill him no matter what, but I guess that's just how they worked the plot in the latter case.
it doesn't look like Barret will actively tear shit apart to find you :\ I always hated how you were basically invincible in air ducts
Looks good, but I still want to know how they're handling this for users who have DX:HR and all the DLC.
[QUOTE=En Ex;41933930]Looks good, but I still want to know how they're handling this for users who have DX:HR and all the DLC.[/QUOTE] I don't think we're going to get it. For PC users it's not too hard to work with as they can just update it. The console versions on the other hand could also be updated, but I don't know how the console will react to a majority of the disc content being replaced.
Looks like the changes are pretty good. Hopefully I'll be able to play HR as, you know, a stealth game instead of a "reload saves for half an hour" game. Selfishly calling "bummer" on the fact that it's not a Wii U exclusive anymore. This game was kinda influential to my decision in buying one. Oh well, win some lose some.
[QUOTE=The Calzone;41934089]Looks like the changes are pretty good. Hopefully I'll be able to play HR as, you know, a stealth game instead of a "reload saves for half an hour" game. Selfishly calling "bummer" on the fact that it's not a Wii U exclusive anymore. This game was kinda influential to my decision in buying one. Oh well, win some lose some.[/QUOTE] Besides the boss battles it was a perfect stealth game. Maybe you're just not good at it hurr hurr hurr.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;41934021]I don't think we're going to get it. For PC users it's not too hard to work with as they can just update it. The console versions on the other hand could also be updated, but I don't know how the console will react to a majority of the disc content being replaced.[/QUOTE] It's coming to other consoles and PC, we just don't know how they're doing it yet. I'd be pissed if I had to rebuy the game, albeit I don't have Missing Link or such.
[QUOTE=RikohZX;41934568]It's coming to other consoles and PC, we just don't know how they're doing it yet. I'd be pissed if I had to rebuy the game, albeit I don't have Missing Link or such.[/QUOTE] Hmm, it seems like the kind of thing they'd either try and sell as a DLC, or repackage (or both hopefully?)
I really wish there was a boss fight in a game like this with a really powerful augmented dude who starts off cocky and confident and the more you damage him the more he gets angry and has difficulties focusing and because of his injuries he can't hold up properly and ends up taking down entire walls looking for you.
[QUOTE=Lebowski;41934518]Besides the boss battles it was a perfect stealth game. Maybe you're just not good at it hurr hurr hurr.[/QUOTE] far from perfect. the AI is retarded and way too easy to fool
[QUOTE=salty peanut v2;41933351]it doesn't look like Barret will actively tear shit apart to find you :\ I always hated how you were basically invincible in air ducts[/QUOTE] What a surprise it would be if enemies in a future game actually search for you in air ducts and other areas that NPC's usually don't venture in to.
But what kind of person ventures into an airduct to find their opponent? There's just a lot that could go wrong. It makes a lot more sense for the NPCs to not go in the vents rather than going in blindly
[QUOTE=t h e;41935721]But what kind of person ventures into an airduct to find their opponent? There's just a lot that could go wrong. It makes a lot more sense for the NPCs to not go in the vents rather than going in blindly[/QUOTE] In MGS if they see you go in a vent they chuck grenades in at you. I always thought that was pretty smart.
I hope they bring the updated graphics to PC as well
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;41935916]In MGS if they see you go in a vent they chuck grenades in at you. I always thought that was pretty smart.[/QUOTE] What I liked about MGS2 was that if you were on alert status, guards would actually check under shit to find you. So if I was hiding under a truck on the ship, some of the patrols would actually look under the trucks.
[QUOTE=Lebowski;41934518]Besides the boss battles it was a perfect stealth game. Maybe you're just not good at it hurr hurr hurr.[/QUOTE] I was talking about the boss battles? Most of the boss battles in the game were nothing but reloading saves for half an hour if you were playing the game like a stealth game.
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;41935916]In MGS if they see you go in a vent they chuck grenades in at you. I always thought that was pretty smart.[/QUOTE] MGS3 guards had a habit of checking vents if they saw you near them, peeking in and shooting into them if I remember. Dunno why Eidos forgot to add something like that.
[QUOTE=The Calzone;41945917]I was talking about the boss battles? Most of the boss battles in the game were nothing but reloading saves for half an hour if you were playing the game like a stealth game.[/QUOTE] Most of the boss battles (apart from the first) was walking up to the boss and unloading typhoon a few times into their face. But damn the graphical fidelity took a nosedive on the WiiU port.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;41955365]Most of the boss battles (apart from the first) was walking up to the boss and unloading typhoon a few times into their face. But damn the graphical fidelity took a nosedive on the WiiU port.[/QUOTE] How so? They said that the WiiU version would actually be graphically superior (or at least they said they tweaked it stylistically, if not making it actually better graphically), and even the PC version wasn't really that impressive overall, it just had good art direction. I mean, I didn't notice overall if it was much different. How exactly was it worse?
Barrett was a total bitch. I think I got stuck trying to beat him and then never decided to go back to the game again. Why the game had boss battles like that I will never know.
[QUOTE=benbb;41955759]Barrett was a total bitch. I think I got stuck trying to beat him and then never decided to go back to the game again. Why the game had boss battles like that I will never know.[/QUOTE] You could beat Barrett pretty easily if you just kinda threw every single barrel in the arena at him one at a time. Once you managed to connect the first one it would stun-lock him. Naturally the challenge comes from actually being able to connect the first one.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;41934021]I don't think we're going to get it. For PC users it's not too hard to work with as they can just update it. The console versions on the other hand could also be updated, but I don't know how the console will react to a majority of the disc content being replaced.[/QUOTE] I somehow doubt it that we'll get it as an update, unless you mean payed update... Although, this looks quite nice. Looks more like a Deus Ex game now, and hopefully, people will start looking at the game as a potential goty as it should have been, even though it felt very unfinished. [editline]25th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=gbtygfvyg;41936733]What I liked about MGS2 was that if you were on alert status, guards would actually check under shit to find you. So if I was hiding under a truck on the ship, some of the patrols would actually look under the trucks.[/QUOTE] Still remember that VR mission where I had to defuse a bomb inside the vents. I had no idea of where it was and always kept triggering an alert. I'd always hide inside the vents where the president was being held in the main story, but they always went to check out that spot and actually clear the room with grenades and checking out the vents carefuly. [editline]25th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=The Calzone;41934089]Selfishly calling "bummer" on the fact that it's not a Wii U exclusive anymore. This game was kinda influential to my decision in buying one. Oh well, win some lose some.[/QUOTE] I really hate it when people say anything like that. For starters, you are the consumer. You don't really win or lose for having it as an exclusive on the Wii U or not. Actually, I think you'd win more than you'd lose this way. Saves you (and loads of other people) a shitload of money for not being dicks and making it an exclusive on a console where the game wasn't even in the first place. And then, as I already said, it would be an increadibly dick thing to do to make it a WiiU exclusive. I mean, the entire Deus Ex franchise was never on any Nintendo console, then they pull what appears to be a much better version of a good game that mind you, wasn't released on any Nintendo console either, and for some reason, make it an exclusive at first. That's the most stupid thing you could do if you wanted to sell something. It's like setting up shop and trying to sell 200.000$ cars on a country where each person can barely buy a Lada. I'd see it as a big and rude "fuck you" to everyone who bought the game on the 3 main platforms if the game was a WiiU exclusive, especially on a console as expensive and as unappealing as the WiiU (for most people). You were also burning away money and hours of work by only selling it on a console who has few users compared to everything else, not to mention the angry fans. [editline]25th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=The Calzone;41957128]You could beat Barrett pretty easily if you just kinda threw every single barrel in the arena at him one at a time. Once you managed to connect the first one it would stun-lock him. Naturally the challenge comes from actually being able to connect the first one.[/QUOTE] OR Dump everthing you have on him, which also works for every other boss. That reminds me... There was that guy in the sewers, wont go into details so I don't spoil, thought he was gonna give me a hard fight, ended up just taking him down. Hell, could have used non-lethal takedown and literaly punched him once and be done with it.
[QUOTE=t h e;41935721]But what kind of person ventures into an airduct to find their opponent? There's just a lot that could go wrong. It makes a lot more sense for the NPCs to not go in the vents rather than going in blindly[/QUOTE] I think the real question here is why the fuck someone is crawling into air vents in the first place, that shit's cramped
My biggest problem in Deus Ex and Deus Ex: Human Revolution was their overuse of the MJ-12 and Belltower factions respectively. Fighting an aimless blackops organization in laboratory after laboratory gets pretty boring after a while. It's such a shame because all the other levels/factions were all really good.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;41946246]MGS3 guards had a habit of checking vents if they saw you near them, peeking in and shooting into them if I remember. Dunno why Eidos forgot to add something like that.[/QUOTE] Yeah but Eidos actually managed to do something really simple that for some reason no fuckin stealth game has ever managed to: Having guards check over their shoulders like normal human beings every now and then
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;41959583]Yeah but Eidos actually managed to do something really simple that for some reason no fuckin stealth game has ever managed to: Having guards check over their shoulders like normal human beings every now and then[/QUOTE] The thing that sucks about that is that their patrols are still just a defined path. They will always look back in the same exact position. It would be nice if the patrols were more random.
[QUOTE=CakeMaster7;41955658]How so? They said that the WiiU version would actually be graphically superior (or at least they said they tweaked it stylistically, if not making it actually better graphically), and even the PC version wasn't really that impressive overall, it just had good art direction. I mean, I didn't notice overall if it was much different. How exactly was it worse?[/QUOTE] From the video, seems like a lot of the colour depth is gone and a lot of it seems to be a lot more grayish, washed out. The post process also seems weaker.
[QUOTE=PaChIrA;41959863]The thing that sucks about that is that their patrols are still just a defined path. They will always look back in the same exact position. It would be nice if the patrols were more random.[/QUOTE] It's a staple of stealth games to learn that route and intercept/avoid enemies accordingly tho, so I can see why they kept it. Especially considering that, at least from my perspective, the stealth genre's been stagnating for a long time. I think the two main problems are that 1) stealth don't give you enough tools and problems, it's usually just a matter of crouch-walking behind people's backs and 2) it has a binary failure state of "you've been caught" / "you haven't been caught", which is why people like The Calzone can find it very frustrating and devs try to alleviate that problem by giving you the option to go guns blazing once you've been caught - even stuff like Mark of the Ninja kind of supports that with its scoring system. It is also frequently easier to simply kill everyone and find some way to heal up afterwards, especially if you're an explorer or lootwhore and would like to check out the room all by yourself. Personally I think the most important thing that needs to change to solve those problem is AI: - if you're caught, there should be some time after the initial "oh shit" moment between NPC and player for the player to hinder or completely stop the NPC from triggering the alarm. It can be a direct solution like shooting the guy in the knee or something more pasive like locking the room's doors in advance. - AI should notice missing guards on overlapping patrol routes and spread the info from guard to guard, giving the player the option to contain the problem before every guard in the level becomes difficult to deal with. It also rewards players avoiding conflict all together instead of choking out one guard after another, Dishonored-style. In fact, choking out maybe shouldn't be offered at all or only be a temporary slumber, making it necessary to gag the guy and hide him in a closet and lock it or something. It makes avoiding conflict in the first place way more convenient, which is kind of the point why your character is doing it as well, without robbing you of any options - AI should investigate more thoroughly, which is hugely important to add tension to the game and actually make it exciting to simply stand in the shadows and holding your breath without pressing a button. Depending on difficulty setting they may also remember your patterns from previous levels if you've been keeping a high profile: If they found 20 choked-out friends in the cupboards last level, they'll check there first now. Most important and difficult thing would be creating no space where the player can feel completely safe (which is about as exciting as ducking behind immortal cover in cover-based shooters), without doing something unfair like guards suddenly directing the flashlight at the ceiling where you've been hiding spider-man-style the whole time. They should also attempt to fix lights you broke and become at least a bit suspicious because of it. - Experimentation with exotic equipment tailored for stealth gameplay may be of great use. It can be anything from wall-crawl gloves to rope arrows to towels to wipe away blood stains of your messier encounters to "forget the last five seconds" amnesia dust in a pocket to scouting tools to making it look like guard X died in an accident. Damn slippery stairs! - sound should be a way greater matter than "make sure you're crouched 24/7". Thief for example had moss arrows (dampening your footstep sounds where they spread moss) and noise arrows (faking footstep sounds along their way) and IIRC seemingly convenient and direct routes made from a material that would make your footsteps echo across town even when crouched - so you better take out all the lights and take it step by step and hope no guard's around. - guards should have some personality. You'll be dealing with them most of the time, so it's important they are not only important gameplay-wise, but also in the narrative. A great deal of why stealth is fun is because it feels like you've outsmarted somebody, which is all the more satisfying if the person has had some personality. It can also explain why guard X is being a bit groggy today or paranoid and with recurring guards can give players another reason not to kill them. It's really boring to just walk around the vision cones of killdroids shaped like people is what I'm saying. [b]TL;DR[/b] Make stealth more than crouching behind people's backs, don't make it a "you've been detected/you're undetected" failure state and give the players a greater variety of obstacles and tools (a.k.a. gameplay variety).
My biggest problem with the stealth in Deus Ex was in how zonal the AI was. They seemed to basically only be aware of one room at a time (or slightly larger zone) and their state didn't propagate further. Trigger alarms in one room, clean it up and get to a new one - all the alert flags are reset again. The enemies should at least be on middle alert if you ask me.
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