'Am I being executed?' Brazilian killed by Indonesia unaware until end, says priest
61 replies, posted
[url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/30/brazilian-executed-by-indonesia-was-hearing-voices-all-the-time[/url]
[QUOTE]Priest who counselled Rodrigo Gularte – who had been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and bipolar disorder – says [B]he tried in vain for three days to explain to the inmate he was about to die
[/B]Doctors had diagnosed the Brazilian with paranoid schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. A second diagnosis, commissioned by Indonesia’s attorney general, has not been made public.
Father Charlie Burrows, a priest who ministers to prisoners in Cilacap, said he had tried in vain to explain to Gularte for three days that he was about to be killed.
“He was hearing voices all the time,” Burrows told Irish radio. “I talked to him for about an hour and a half, trying to prepare him for the execution. I said to him, ‘I’m 72 years old, I’ll be heading to heaven in the near future, so you find out where my house is and prepare a garden for me.’
“But when they took [the prisoners] out of the cells … and when they put these bloody chains on them, he said to me, ‘Am I being executed?’ ” Burrows said.
“I said, ‘Yes, I thought I explained that you.’ He didn’t get excited – he’s a quiet sort of a guy – but he said, ‘This is not right.’
“He’s lost because he’s a schizophrenic. He asked if there was a sniper outside ready to shoot him, and I said no, and whether somebody would shoot him in the car, and I said no,” Burrows said.
After Gularte was strapped to a wooden plank, Burrows was permitted to see him again: “He said, ‘This is not right, I made one small mistake, and I shouldn’t have to die for it.’ So he was annoyed more than anything else, because he’s a soft-spoken, quiet and sensitive man.”
[/QUOTE]
[B]​DEATH PENALTY, YEEEEES![/B]
Jesus fuck
imagine legally executing people over drugs
That's extremely unsettling.
Im okay with executing real terrorists and such (hate and dumb me all you want) but these kind of situations are plain wrong on many levels.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;47631383]Im okay with executing real terrorists and such (hate and dumb me all you want) but these kind of situations are plain wrong on many levels.[/QUOTE]
This is wrong regardless of your stance on the death penalty because the very idea of someone that mentally ill being given a conviction is wrong.
and how do we know he was not pretending to escape the death penalty.
[QUOTE=Nif90;47631392]and how do we know he was not pretending to escape the death penalty.[/QUOTE]
It's pretty hard to pretend to have a mental illness.
[QUOTE=Nif90;47631392]and how do we know he was not pretending to escape the death penalty.[/QUOTE]
Paranoid Schizophrenia and Bipolar disorder must be real easy to fake :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Nif90;47631392]and how do we know he was not pretending to escape the death penalty.[/QUOTE]
Because he was diagnosed. You think the psychologists seeing him have never discerned a faker from not? Convincing a jury is one thing but a doctor who specializes in medical illness isn't gonna be fooled lol
[QUOTE=Nif90;47631392]and how do we know he was not pretending to escape the death penalty.[/QUOTE]
Because he was diagnosed by at least one set of doctors and didn't drop the act with three days of counseling with a priest? If he was that good a liar he wouldn't have got caught.
[QUOTE=Nif90;47631392]and how do we know he was not pretending to escape the death penalty.[/QUOTE]
God this makes my head hurt so much I have to say more
He didn't even try to get out of it based on his mental illness
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;47631406]Paranoid Schizophrenia and Bipolar disorder must be real easy to fake :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
First off you'd have to fake off your fear of being executed and pretend to not know about it. Can't really imagine being able to do that.
[QUOTE=Rents;47631412]Because he was diagnosed by at least one set of doctors and didn't drop the act with three days of counseling with a priest? If he was that good a liar he wouldn't have got caught.[/QUOTE]
And if the government are happy to execute the mentally ill I don't think pretending until he dies would have exactly helped much.
[QUOTE=Nif90;47631392]and how do we know he was not pretending to escape the death penalty.[/QUOTE]
not knowing if someone is mentally ill is a pretty good reason not to execute them dude
I think this begs the question, was his mental illness ignored in the ruling or was it taken as another reason to kill him ?
I wouldn't put it past a country that sentences foreigners to death over drugs to also sentence people to death over mental illness.
m[QUOTE=Ganerumo;47631586]I think this begs the question, was his mental illness ignored in the ruling or was it taken as another reason to kill him ?
I wouldn't put it past a country that sentences foreigners to death over drugs to also sentence people to death over mental illness.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure there's some very hairy politics surrounding the diagnosis of mental illness vs being convicted for death penalties, since this isn't the first time I've heard of the execution of mentally ill people.
(also that's not how you use the phrase "begs the question")
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;47631586]I think this begs the question, was his mental illness ignored in the ruling or was it taken as another reason to kill him ?
I wouldn't put it past a country that sentences foreigners to death over drugs to also sentence people to death over mental illness.[/QUOTE]
Their government did a second diagnosis that was not made public so I would think its the former. I mean it could be the second one but I don't know a lot about the country and I would think that if they took it as another reason to have him killed they would have just said it.
[quote]‘I’m 72 years old, I’ll be heading to heaven in the near future, so you find out where my house is and prepare a garden for me.'[/quote]
Goddam. It's quotes like this that make me realise how little life experience i have at 22.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;47631586]I think this begs the question, was his mental illness ignored in the ruling or was it taken as another reason to kill him ?
I wouldn't put it past a country that sentences foreigners to death over drugs to also sentence people to death over mental illness.[/QUOTE]
iirc Indonesia's law believes that you are always in control of your actions, mental illnesses included
America stopped executing mentally handicapped and ill people because it was ruled by the courts as infringing on "cruel and unusual treatment" and it's true
However, in some ways, it's nice to know that he died without knowing what was going on, he didn't suffer the torture everyone else went to, he was unaware of what was happening
I don't know if that's good or bad, but it's terrible he was shot
[QUOTE=Nif90;47631392]and how do we know he was not pretending to escape the death penalty.[/QUOTE]
It's pretty easy to tell when someone is pretending to be a paranoid schizophrenic and someone who actually is.
I'm all for capital punishment when it comes to serious criminals, not this kind of bullshit though
Are people saying it's ok to execute mentally sane people?
[QUOTE=Occlusion;47631635]Goddam. It's quotes like this that make me realise how little life experience i have at 22.[/QUOTE]
I'm curious what you mean by this. I don't see how that quote conveys that, but I'm interested.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;47631751]Are people saying it's ok to execute mentally sane people?[/QUOTE]
No, most people here are saying it's morally wrong to punish someone for their actions when they're not in control of them.
"Am I being executed?" sounds like the totalitarian version of "Am I being detained?", its shocking, and yet sadly not, this actually happened
If we're going to discuss the death penalty I'm going to leave my two cents here as well.
I think the death penalty (as far as civilians go, not counting the military and war related executions which are another business entirely) must be allowed in exclusivity to extreme, otherwise unsolvable situations, following [I]all[/I] of these criteria :
- The detainee must be otherwise sentenced to a life sentence without parole (no leaving prison alive, period).
- The detainee must show willingness to commit other serious offences, both in and outside of prison.
- The detainee must be aggressive to himself and other individuals in prison on a very regular basis.
- The detainee must commit attempts to escape.
If every single one of these criteria are met, then the person should be eligible for a quick and clean death. They don't meet a [I]single[/I] one of these conditions, tough shit, they stay alive and in a cell, not dead in a coffin.
Additionally, I think every individual sentenced to life without parole should have a right to demand an execution, with appropriate counseling by one or several psychiatrists to determine whether or not this is justified or linked to clinical depression.
So in short, the death penalty should be a last resort for when a person's detention turns into constant containment, because at this point it becomes more inhumane to contain them for life than to end their life. In any other case, tough shit, give them a life sentence and stop there.
Jesus, that's sad.
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arridy"]Reminds me of this guy, Joe Arridy.[/URL]
[QUOTE]Arridy was known for spending his time on death row playing with a toy train given to him by prison Warden Roy Best who called Arridy "the happiest prisoner on death row". He was liked by both the prisoners and guards. He received nine stays of execution while the man that was arrested before him, Frank Aguilar, was executed nearly two years earlier. For his last meal he requested ice cream. When questioned about his impending execution he showed "blank bewilderment" and it was clear that he didn't realize the meaning of the gas chamber telling the warden "No, no Joe won't die." Joe was reported to have smiled while being taken to the gas chamber and was only momentarily nervous until the warden grabbed his hand and reassured him.[/QUOTE]
It's bad enough that Indonesia did this, but there really needs to be [I]some [/I]humanitarian conditions in case mental illness is involved.
[QUOTE=snookypookums;47631871]Jesus, that's sad.
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arridy"]Reminds me of this guy, Joe Arridy.[/URL]
It's bad enough that Indonesia did this, but there really needs to be [I]some [/I]humanitarian conditions in case mental illness is involved.[/QUOTE]
Oh and it turns out it's likely he didn't even do the crime. Fucking great!
Can we kind of stop all trade with indonesia?
[QUOTE=snookypookums;47631871]Jesus, that's sad.
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arridy"]Reminds me of this guy, Joe Arridy.[/URL]
It's bad enough that Indonesia did this, but there really needs to be [I]some [/I]humanitarian conditions in case mental illness is involved.[/QUOTE]
Seems like the warden was a good guy at least
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