China says United States is real threat to global trade, not itself
22 replies, posted
[QUOTE]BEIJING (Reuters) - The United States, not China, threatens the global trade system, China’s foreign ministry said on Monday, after U.S. President Donald Trump’s administration called U.S. support for Beijing’s joining the World Trade Organization in 2001 a mistake.
WTO rules have proved ineffective in making China embrace a market-oriented trade regime, and the United States “erred” in backing China’s entry to the trade body on such terms, the office of the U.S. Trade Representative said last week.
Its report came as Trump weighs a series of trade actions against Beijing, including a decision in a “Section 301” investigation into China’s alleged theft of intellectual property, expected in the next few weeks.
Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said that since China joined the WTO, it had strictly followed the body’s rules, carried out its obligations and contributed to the development of the multilateral system.
Other countries have benefited from trade with China, which has stuck by the route of reform and opening up and has supported an open global economy, she added.
“I think everyone has seen that it’s precisely the United States’ unilateralist methods, and the sounds it’s made on unilateralism, that are an unprecedented challenge to the multilateral trade system,” Hua told a regular news briefing.
“Many WTO members have already expressed worry about this,” she added.[/QUOTE]
[URL="https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-usa-trade/china-says-united-states-is-real-threat-to-global-trade-not-itself-idUSKBN1FB102?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_content=5a65d81f04d3010ee0745c99&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook"]Reuters.[/URL]
Not really? China still uses intellectual property without proper rights. China also does a lot of other, horrid stuff. We still have free speech although it may get called "Fake news"
Who would have thought "America first" would be bad for trade?
[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;53072007]Intellectual property is a horrible concept that halts innovation and mostly protects gigantic corporations that lobby for it like Disney
[/QUOTE]
It has its own pros and cons, just like almost everything else.
[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;53072007]Intellectual property is a horrible concept that halts innovation and mostly protects gigantic corporations that lobby for it like Disney
Trump's economical plan is barely mentioned in the article, world trade has been long been using the USD as a basis, the United States could bankrupt any country they wanted in a snap of a finger like they've already done with Russia with the Crimea situation and how they are currently doing with North Korea[/QUOTE]
Trump abandoning liberal trade policies, provoking trade wars with everybody, and in general being a weak whining prick has let China and Xi step up and make claims like this.
Under obama and previous presidents they were 'glad' to adhere to the global order if it brought prosparity
[QUOTE=_Maverick_;53072041]It has its own pros and cons, just like almost everything else.[/QUOTE]
It hasn't been proven really, but I'm willing to take on faith that IP and Copyright are helpful when they're moderate, e.g., at 30 years for copyright, a good bit less for patents. Although we've kind of ramped up the previously tolerable cons to a ridiculous extent by extending it to life + 70 years.
That's whats on the books right now at least, at the current pace it's probably de facto forever since Disney'll oil up their lobbyists at the threat of Mickey Mouse going public domain.
Doesn't China entice corps to move to their mainland before cannibalizing them?
[QUOTE=Alxnotorious;53072093]Doesn't China entice corps to move to their mainland before cannibalizing them?[/QUOTE]
If you're foolish enough to move your company from America to China, just for a profit boost stemming from being able to pay people pathetically low wages to manufacture your product...you deserve the Chinese Government taking your company from you and nationalizing it. IMO.
If you're an American running a company that services Americans, your company belongs in America. End of story.
[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;53072007]Intellectual property is a horrible concept that halts innovation and mostly protects gigantic corporations that lobby for it like Disney
[/QUOTE]
Uh, no?
Intellectual Property protects a [I]lot[/I] of people, including myself. If IP laws didn't exist, I'd have 0 incentive to make software to sell because any of my customers could just take it, duplicate the code, and then re-sell that.
I'm not gonna trust China of all places when it comes to pointing fingers in regards to global trade problems.
[QUOTE=phygon;53072471]Uh, no?
Intellectual Property protects a [I]lot[/I] of people, including myself. If IP laws didn't exist, I'd have 0 incentive to make software to sell because any of my customers could just take it, duplicate the code, and then re-sell that.[/QUOTE]
This is the worst possible example since software source code doesn't necessarily have to be public.
As well there is still the effect of leading (aka being first to make $,) and discouragements of innovations that come from patent laws.
It's a pretty complicated issue.
[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;53072576]not having IP laws doesn't mean that you are forced to publish everything you want in a GPL-esque license[/QUOTE]
Not having IP laws would mean that a GPL-esque license is utterly meaningless to begin with, and any software he releases would be completely unprotected. A license with no authority to enforce it is just a note saying 'pretty please'. I'm not sure how you're trying to spin this as a positive; that 'create whatever you want without someone using the power of the state to threaten you' is exactly the situation he wants to avoid when he's the 'someone' and the 'whatever you want' is ripping off his work.
Edit: And in the context of this thread, IP law is what enables Customs to crack down on counterfeiting coming from China, preventing Chinese manufacturers from undercutting domestic industry. You say that there's more to an iPhone than just the IP and that's true, but spotting fakes is not something end consumers should be responsible for, and legally sanctioning the production and importation of ripoffs damages the legitimate businesses and by extension the economy. China very deliberately does not enforce IP law specifically because it benefits them, at our expense, to do so.
[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;53072576]I don't think you understand what it means, not having IP laws doesn't mean that you are forced to publish everything you want in a GPL-esque license, one thing it means is that you can create whatever you want without someone using the power of the state to threaten you.
You could see some great examples of that happening to genius people like John Carmack, that had to throw away a lot of incredible techniques he had made because of Software Patents that weren't even used by the companies that patented them, this whole process is uncorrelated to any positive attributes, and just serves to allow either money or wasted effort to be extorted from generally unsuspecting and innocent people or companies
Even if you see it as a protective manner you can see that everyone and their dog in the chinese industry is trying to copying the iPhone but they don't get [I]even close[/I] to the desired result even with weak IP laws, because IP isn't the whole process[/QUOTE]
IP laws are necessary for software business to operate. Unless I put some draconian, uncrackable DRM into my work (which doesn't exist for obvious reasons) it will be possible for someone to take the executable data and either rehost it for free or re-sell it on their own storefront, and I would have no legal recourse to have it taken down. My work now has no value to me, so why should I bother to write software except out of the goodness of my heart?
Software isn't like cellphones, a duplicate of executable code is completely and utterly identical, authorized or not. It's shitty that patent trolls and other assholes who sit on overly broad patents exist but the solution is to find ways to improve the system, not toss it out completely.
[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;53072867]You can commercialize that, GOG's business model is working more than well[/QUOTE]
You... Do understand that you can't just resell games you bought on GOG or rehost them wherever you want for free, right? Like, not legally. Just because they don't have DRM doesn't mean the software isn't subject to intellectual property law.
[url]https://support.gog.com/hc/en-us/articles/212632089-User-Agreement[/url]
GOG takes the time to legally acquire the rights to sell those games from their original creators and then spruces them up for play on modern systems. If I were to set up a site called "buygoggamescheap.com" and then sold everything from GoG's storefront for like half price I'd get my shit slapped and get hauled to civil court.
[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;53072007]Intellectual property is a horrible concept that halts innovation and mostly protects gigantic corporations that lobby for it like Disney.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, instead China has mega-corporations that use the government to strong-arm foreign companies into selling their IP's. Say you make a product that gets popular in China and a Chinese company decides it wants in on your success? You get two choices, either you sell your IP rights for the Chinese market to the Chinese company, or the Chinese government will ban your product and the company will go ahead and launch their copycat product anyway. With options like that, you might as well take the shitty licensing deal and lose control of your product in China in exchange for a cut of the profit, since the alternative more of the same except with no benefit to you at all.
[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;53072007]Intellectual property is a horrible concept that halts innovation and mostly protects gigantic corporations that lobby for it like Disney
[/QUOTE]
Intellectual property is absolutely necessary to secure funding for the development of nearly any piece technology. Innovation is nearly impossible without funding.
Girls, girls, stop fighting, you're both corrupt!
world news just has me real pessimistic these days, ok
[QUOTE=_charon;53074629]Girls, girls, stop fighting, you're both corrupt!
world news just has me real pessimistic these days, ok[/QUOTE]
good news don't sell well, nice stuff happens every day
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;53074665]good news don't sell well, nice stuff happens every day[/QUOTE]
It's less "good news don't sell well" and more "sensationalist, outrageous news sell much better".
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;53072550]This is the worst possible example since software source code doesn't necessarily have to be public.
As well there is still the effect of leading (aka being first to make $,) and discouragements of innovations that come from patent laws.
It's a pretty complicated issue.[/QUOTE]
In my case, the source code literally has to be available to the end user. Literally anybody could duplicate the code, re-brand it, and re-sell it and I could do literally nothing at all to stop this from happening.
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