• Hungary Nazi war crimes suspect Sandor Kepiro acquitted
    22 replies, posted
[quote]A Hungarian man, Sandor Kepiro, has been found not guilty of committing war crimes during a 1942 raid. A Budapest court acquitted the former police captain, now 97, of ordering the rounding up and execution of over 30 Jews and Serbs in Serbia in 1942. The prosecution had demanded at least a prison sentence for Mr Kepiro, but he insisted he had not killed. He previously topped the Simon Wiesenthal Center's list of most wanted Nazis. Many of the dozens of people attending the court session cheered and clapped after Judge Bela Varga read out the verdict of the three-judge tribunal, the AP news agency reported. The reasoning behind the court's verdict is to be read out over two days, Monday and Tuesday, in light of the frailty of the defendant. More than 1,200 Jewish, Serb and Roma civilians were murdered over three days by Hungarian forces in a notorious massacre in the city of Novi Sad in 1942. Prosecutors said Mr Kepiro was directly responsible for the deaths of 36 Jews and Serbs - including 30 who were put on a lorry on the defendant's orders and taken away and shot. He was convicted of involvement in the killings in Hungary in 1944 but his conviction was quashed by the fascist government. Mr Kepiro returned to Hungary in 1996 after decades in Argentina. He was first accused in 2006 by Nazi hunters with the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Mr Kepiro said he had been "the only person to refuse the order to use firearms", and that he had intervened to save five people about to be killed by a corporal. The reliability of some of the documentary and testimonial evidence against him had also been called into question.[/quote] [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14185045]**SOURCE**[/url] It's nice to see that he's free to walk. Can't say the same for the folk who tried to accuse him though. You are crazy to prosecute the 80+ year old elderly and not look like a total wad.
Yes yes. Lets prosecute the 97 year old. I swear, people are blood hungry when it comes to shit like this. The fact that there was even a trial is just absurd. He's Ninety Fucking Seven.
He killed, alot of people and just because he is old he is allowed to walk free? He took the lives of innocents,
[QUOTE=Nikota;31192641]Yes yes. Lets prosecute the 97 year old. I swear, people are [B]blood hungry[/B] when it comes to shit like this. The fact that there was even a trial is just absurd. He's Ninety Fucking Seven.[/QUOTE] Sufficed to say you missed a great pun.
[QUOTE=Nikota;31192641]Yes yes. Lets prosecute the 97 year old. I swear, people are blood hungry when it comes to shit like this. The fact that there was even a trial is just absurd. He's Ninety Fucking Seven.[/QUOTE] So? [editline]18th July 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Desolategrunt;31192730]He killed, alot of people and just because he is old he is allowed to walk free? He took the lives of innocents,[/QUOTE] Did you even read the headline? Because it says "suspect"
It actually helps that the current government of Hungary is uh, for lack of a better word, becoming increasingly hateful. The current ruling party Fidesz has used some rather questionable stances on nationalism and towards peoples of other religions, while its smaller partner Jobbik is a resurrection of the Nazi-era Arrow Cross Party that helped to deport most of that country's Jews to concentration camps to be killed. [img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_O1jei1tFuLA/S8HrKzc95dI/AAAAAAAABqk/lMXgSvSqW2o/s1600/u__Jobbik_.jpg[/img] Yeah, Jobbik isn't ashamed of their past. So the Wiesenthal Center's charges wouldn't really hold up too long in the current political atmosphere there. Yes, the man was old, though there could have easily been a way to bypass "punishment" and rather ensure he will be remembered for being a murderer. It may be worth mentioning that he was convicted twice for these crimes. The first time was in 1944 for 10 years imprisonment, and he was released following the pro-Nazi Arrow Cross party coup that same year. He goes to Austria and eventually in 1948, ends up in Argentina. The post-war regime charged him in 1946 with the same crimes but for 15 years, but he was in Austria and later Argentina to avoid extradition. He returned in 1996, these charges were brought up in 2006 using the same evidence of the 1944 and 1946 trials, but apparently they didn't matter much.
[QUOTE=Desolategrunt;31192730]He killed, alot of people and just because he is old he is allowed to walk free? He took the lives of innocents,[/QUOTE] He's ninety, fucking, seven, years old. If they wanted to prosecute him for war crimes they should have done it 60 or 70 years ago. If you toss this man in prison he'll be dead in less the 6 months. Ontop of that, this man has had to live with his crimes for most of his life, and for most thats punishment enough.
I never said that he was innocent. He's just fucking old and there's no point in it because the poor guy's going to drop dead any time.
He was complicit in the murder of hundreds in Serbia, why on earth should he be excused just because of his age? [editline]18th July 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;31193083]He's ninety, fucking, seven, years old. If they wanted to prosecute him for war crimes they should have done it 60 or 70 years ago. [/QUOTE] They tried (as mentioned above), conveniently he ended up in South America, which as it happens is where a fair old amount of war criminals ran to after the war.
OK, you can argue on whether or not to imprison/punish him, but he deserves to stand trial no matter what his age. But he was acquitted so the argument is done.
[QUOTE=MercZ;31193027]It actually helps that the current government of Hungary is uh, for lack of a better word, becoming increasingly hateful. The current ruling party Fidesz has used some rather questionable stances on nationalism and towards peoples of other religions, while its smaller partner Jobbik is a resurrection of the Nazi-era Arrow Cross Party that helped to deport most of that country's Jews to concentration camps to be killed. [IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_O1jei1tFuLA/S8HrKzc95dI/AAAAAAAABqk/lMXgSvSqW2o/s1600/u__Jobbik_.jpg[/IMG] Yeah, Jobbik isn't ashamed of their past. So the Wiesenthal Center's charges wouldn't really hold up too long in the current political atmosphere there. Yes, the man was old, though there could have easily been a way to bypass "punishment" and rather ensure he will be remembered for being a murderer. It may be worth mentioning that he was convicted twice for these crimes. The first time was in 1944 for 10 years imprisonment, and he was released following the pro-Nazi Arrow Cross party coup that same year. He goes to Austria and eventually in 1948, ends up in Argentina. The post-war regime charged him in 1946 with the same crimes but for 15 years, but he was in Austria and later Argentina to avoid extradition. He returned in 1996, these charges were brought up in 2006 using the same evidence of the 1944 and 1946 trials, but apparently they didn't matter much.[/QUOTE] That's pretty scary.
[QUOTE=MercZ;31193027]It actually helps that the current government of Hungary is uh, for lack of a better word, becoming increasingly hateful. The current ruling party Fidesz has used some rather questionable stances on nationalism and towards peoples of other religions, while [B]its smaller partner Jobbik[/B] is a resurrection of the Nazi-era Arrow Cross Party that helped to deport most of that country's Jews to concentration camps to be killed. [img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_O1jei1tFuLA/S8HrKzc95dI/AAAAAAAABqk/lMXgSvSqW2o/s1600/u__Jobbik_.jpg[/img] Yeah, Jobbik isn't ashamed of their past. So the Wiesenthal Center's charges wouldn't really hold up too long in the current political atmosphere there. Yes, the man was old, though there could have easily been a way to bypass "punishment" and rather ensure he will be remembered for being a murderer. It may be worth mentioning that he was convicted twice for these crimes. The first time was in 1944 for 10 years imprisonment, and he was released following the pro-Nazi Arrow Cross party coup that same year. He goes to Austria and eventually in 1948, ends up in Argentina. The post-war regime charged him in 1946 with the same crimes but for 15 years, but he was in Austria and later Argentina to avoid extradition. He returned in 1996, these charges were brought up in 2006 using the same evidence of the 1944 and 1946 trials, but apparently they didn't matter much.[/QUOTE] The bolded part alone invalidated your post, no offence. Jobbik is [I]anything[/I] but partners with Fidesz, in fact they are, along with the socialists, the loudest opposers of the government in the opposition. They aren't partnered in any known way with Fidesz. Also, the peeps shown on the photo, well, Jobbik is indeed a bunch of angry nationalists, often affiliated with groups like the one shown in the pic, but they aren't wearing armbands or any of that stuff. (And militant groups are cracked down heavily around here, just saying the word "fascist" triggers political panic reactions. 40 years of socialist political agenda don't just disappear.) They aren't that stupid. Jobbik is also getting more and more politically powerless, especially against the moderate conservative Fidesz. Jobbik's entire political power came from opposing the previous (and seriously corrupt) socialist governments, and now that the socialists aren't in power and Fidesz is doing quite well in fixing the national debt, they have nothing left but to complain and accuse. Also, Fidesz maintains a pretty stable relationships with the surrounding countries. (In fact, even Hungarians extremists sort of pale in comparison to [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%A1n_Slota]Ján Slota[/url] who pushed heavily xenophobic agendas in Slovakia and once said "we will get into our tanks and level Budapest". What a nice man.), although of course, different interests are bound to cross ways in this part of the continent. From your comment, it is apparent that you've read some articles about Hungary published by western publishers, and oftentimes, if you look into it, such articles are written by people affiliated with the socialist or the liberal opposition, whom aren't afraid to make their own country appear like a fascist hellhole (Which it isn't) just to weaken the conservative side in international politics. And I know I'll win some sympathy on Facepunch with this: The Hungarian conservatives are not to be mistaken with the American type of conservatives. For example, locally the socialist and the (previous, now nonexistent) liberal party is the one pushing the extreme capitalist and privatised economic agenda (Oh the irony!), while the conservatives are the ones who try to maintain the social market economy and the state-funded services and healthcare. It's sort of opposite day all day around here, when it comes to economics.
The article says he was convicted in 1944, in a timely manner in other words. Only the intervention of a fascist government(Nazis were fascists, what a coincidence!) allowed him to escape to Argentina. So this, in my opinion, is not a case of randomly picking some old guy to make a scapegoat out of him. It's more like rounding up a guy who had friends in high places that allowed him to escape justice in the first place.
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;31194161]The article says he was convicted in 1944, in a timely manner in other words. Only the intervention of a fascist government(Nazis were fascists, what a coincidence!) allowed him to escape to Argentina.[/quote] Kepiro was convicted of being a part of the Novi Sad Massacre after the Soviet Union captured him and had invaded half of Hungary in 1944. Communists putting Fascists in prison, and vice versa, is nothing new; historically, they've never been the best of friends. They gave him 10 years in prison, because he had not personally murdered anyone; his job was to make arrests (with the rank of captain). When the Arrow Party launched a coup, he, along with lots of other people, was freed. He didn't go to Argentina until after the war ended; beforehand, he'd been living in Austria. In 1946, when Hungary was a puppet nation of the Soviet Union, he was tried [i]in absentia[/i] and sentenced to 14 years in prison. I posted a thread on the charges brought against him a couple months ago. ([url]http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1086260-97-year-old-former-Hungarian-National-Socialist-to-be-tried-for-the-Novi-Sad-1942-massacre?highlight=[/url]) [quote=cecilbdemodded;31194161]So this, in my opinion, is not a case of randomly picking some old guy to make a scapegoat out of him. It's more like rounding up a guy who had friends in high places that allowed him to escape justice in the first place.[/QUOTE] This is the fourth time he's been arrested/accused on murder/war crimes charges; the last time was in September 2009 by the very same Efraim Zuroff of the Wiesenthal Center. They were dismissed due to a lack of evidence. [editline]18th July 2011[/editline] Photograph of him for reference: [img]http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/may2009/0/3/image-7-for-hitlers-most-wanted-gallery-972750175.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Géza!;31193875] From your comment, it is apparent that you've read some articles about Hungary published by western publishers, and oftentimes, if you look into it, such articles are written by people affiliated with the socialist or the liberal opposition, whom aren't afraid to make their own country appear like a fascist hellhole (Which it isn't) just to weaken the conservative side in international politics.[/QUOTE] I have a friend who is from Hungary, that's where I get most of my news from. He never really cared much for the existing political groups though, nor did I get the impression that he was making it look like a "hellhole". However he does seem concerned with the nationalist, religious, populistic, and ethnocentric approach that seems to be under the surface. My impressions of Fidesz comes from the constitution it passed (a constitution whose text is available in full), what it put in says a lot about its "populistic" and nationalist inclinations. Not from what I read in the media. You are right that Jobbik is not a member of the government, but they are in the same mindset with Fidesz. They are angry with the latter because they have not implemented some of their more unsavory shit, and voted against the constitution because of that. In other words, not going far enough. I'm not sure if we can see the current government as a preserver of the economy and benefits. You are right that they benefited off MSZP's neoliberal drive and its impacts (but then again, this was not unique to them- the 90s onward was filled with this), but they haven't done much different with regards to the economy. There's been one package after another essentially setting up the ground work for privatizations and pseudo-austerity that they promised to prevent, in order to avoid an actual austerity situation with IMF loans. No, what we see here is something called "politics". If they had chosen to convict an old man that did something much of the populace probably doesn't care about, it would have not looked good. I get the impression that it would rather focus more negative attention on the post-war "socialist" regime as opposed to what happened or didn't happen during Horthy's rule or the Arrow Cross after it.
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;31194352] [img]http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/may2009/0/3/image-7-for-hitlers-most-wanted-gallery-972750175.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Put him in prison because he scares me :v:
what's with the yellow eyes
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;31194352] Photograph of him for reference: [img]http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/may2009/0/3/image-7-for-hitlers-most-wanted-gallery-972750175.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Uhh. Did anyone bother to check his pulse before taking this photo...
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;31193083]He's ninety, fucking, seven, years old. If they wanted to prosecute him for war crimes they should have done it 60 or 70 years ago. If you toss this man in prison he'll be dead in less the 6 months. Ontop of that, this man has had to live with his crimes for most of his life, and for most thats punishment enough.[/QUOTE] I'm 'gonna go on a homocidal rampage, but no it's fine - i have to live with the guilt.
[img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/image-7-for-hitlers-most-wanted-gallery-972750175.jpg[/img] The spice must flow!
[QUOTE=Parakon;31195047]what's with the yellow eyes[/QUOTE] He's dead. I'll grab his wallet while you notify his next-of-kin.
Put a cloak on him and he looks like Emperor Palpatine.
Law is blind. It doesn't matter if you're a man,woman,black,white,twenty or a hundred years old. If you discriminate due to age, law loses its validity. Crime has to have equal punishment, without bias.
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