Florida school produces waivers to ‘be excused from reciting’ Pledge of Allegiance at school'
100 replies, posted
[QUOTE]CAPE CORAL, Fla. — A Florida man is upset after his niece brought home a Pledge of Allegiance waiver that asked parents to sign and return the form if they’d like their child to “be excused from reciting” it.
It read:
“I understand my rights as a parent and I request that my child, noted above, be excused from reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. This request includes standing and placing his/her right hand over his/her heart.”
In frustration, Micah Brienen took to Facebook last Thursday.
“My niece brought this home from school today…What is happening to our country?!?” he said in the post.
Brienen’s sister-in-law returned the form with her daughter, writing the following in response:
“This is the dumbest thing I have ever read and I am so ashamed of this.”
The post has been shared more than 13,400 times.
Several days later, Brienen followed up his initial post with one asking his friends to contact the school’s superintendent about the issue and letting them know that he is up for reelection.
[/QUOTE]
[url]http://myfox8.com/2016/08/22/florida-school-sends-home-pledge-of-allegiance-waiver/[/url]
I've seen this going around my facebook feed for a while today, probably because I live in Florida. It's still crazy though. What happened to just not reciting the pledge if you didn't want to say it? I remember a few kids in my school would do that if they were adamantly against it for whatever reason, but they would still stand. It's literally ten seconds out of your morning.
[QUOTE=gnampf;50935444][url]http://myfox8.com/2016/08/22/florida-school-sends-home-pledge-of-allegiance-waiver/[/url]
I've seen this going around my facebook feed for a while today, probably because I live in Florida. It's still crazy though. What happened to just not reciting the pledge if you didn't want to say it? I remember a few kids in my school would do that if they were adamantly against it for whatever reason, but they would still stand. It's literally ten seconds out of your morning.[/QUOTE]
same reason it's generally not a good idea to have children stand up and pledge fealty to god in class
america is a secular country and there are multiple religions whereby standing up to pledge allegiance in that may be quite offensive and does nothing for the education of the child or aids them in any way
I don't really take issue with a collective pledge existing, but there should be no red-tape process involved before noncompliance is allowed.
it's deeply ironic that schoolchildren in america are expected to daily pledge their fealty to the US government in the manner of feudal vassals considering that the country was pretty much founded on the idea that people are free to not do it
fuggin automerge break
also lol even the school superintendents are elected?
I've always thought the pledge was weird.
I can imagine this getting more backlash than positivity though
It's too bad the article doesn't explain [I]how[/I] the parents are upset.
Is it because there are children who don't have to do it, or is it because the waiver is required not to do it?
(We generally don't do this stuff, but since I went to a Christian school we had services before certain breaks. I just remained silent during those prayers which was never an issue.
As gnampf mentioned, that seems like the most sensible way to do it (maybe with the teachers telling the pupils they can just remain silent at any part of it if there's an issue, if this is an elementary school. Older pupils should be aware of that option anyway).)
[editline]I had first guessed it was because the waiver would be required, but it seems I was wrong.[/editline]
As it turns out, [URL="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154442684629921&set=a.10150258600079921.342735.625784920&type=3&theater"]he objects to the opt-out being actively presented instead of on request only (but still thinks forcing anyone to do it is wrong[/URL][URL="https://archive.is/7wLel"])[/URL].
Me and several other students throughout elementary school and junior high would never recite the pledge, we never even stood for it either. No one ever made a fuss about it and no one should.
I was once so engrossed in a book in 4th grade that I didn't notice the pledge, when it was over, my teacher demanded I stand up and say it alone in front of everyone. When I started saying it quietly she shouted "louder!". I used to have terrible social anxiety as a kid and the fact that my teacher didn't appreciate that I was reading and made me feel terrible really stuck with me and I tried as much as possible to skip the pledge from that point on.
[QUOTE=Aztec;50935506]I was once so engrossed in a book in 4th grade that I didn't notice the pledge, when it was over, my teacher demanded I stand up and say it alone in front of everyone. When I started saying it quietly she shouted "louder!". I used to have terrible social anxiety as a kid and the fact that my teacher didn't appreciate that I was reading and made me feel terrible really stuck with me and I tried as much as possible to skip the pledge from that point on.[/QUOTE]
fuck your teacher tbh, what they did is illegal
The pledge of allegiance is fucking bizarre and I question why its common practice to make children make a pledge, no matter how inconsequential you think it is, to something they have almost no understanding of.
I always stood up and said it but it wasn't until my junior year of highschool that I wondered why we even did it in the first place and how little I knew about what I was even saying all those years, I always thought of it as just the thing you had to do every morning before class.
[QUOTE=OutLawed Blade;50935575]The pledge of allegiance is fucking bizarre and I question why its common practice to make children make a pledge, no matter how inconsequential you think it is, to something they have almost no understanding of.
I always stood up and said it but it wasn't until my junior year of highschool that I wondered why we even did it in the first place and how little I knew about what I was even saying all those years, I always thought of it as just the thing you had to do every morning before class.[/QUOTE]
That's sort of the idea behind it, digging it so deep into your head you don't even notice it's there.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2BfqDUPL1I[/media]
[QUOTE=OutLawed Blade;50935575]The pledge of allegiance is fucking bizarre and I question why its common practice to make children make a pledge, no matter how inconsequential you think it is, to something they have almost no understanding of.
I always stood up and said it but it wasn't until my junior year of highschool that I wondered why we even did it in the first place and how little I knew about what I was even saying all those years, I always thought of it as just the thing you had to do every morning before class.[/QUOTE]
IIRC the "Under God" part was added in the 50s to show those Godless Commies a thing or two.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50935455]same reason it's generally not a good idea to have children stand up and pledge fealty to god in class
america is a secular country and there are multiple religions whereby standing up to pledge allegiance in that may be quite offensive and does nothing for the education of the child or aids them in any way[/QUOTE]
I never saw it that way. I've always been atheist but I did the pledge anyway with the Under God and all.
I know what it means I just interpret it a different way. Less religious meaning and more of a "under God" being a collective unity of the American nation.
Same way the star field is in some interpretations of the flag is representing God. It just doesn't bug me it's been tradition for so long it doesn't seem like a good use of my time and energy to be offended over it. The references to God are like more poetic and symbolic in my perspective than spiritual.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;50935651]I never saw it that way. I've always been atheist but I did the pledge anyway with the Under God and all.
I know what it means I just interpret it a different way. Less religious meaning and more of a "under God" being a collective unity of the American nation.
Same way the star field is in some interpretations of the flag is representing God. It just doesn't bug me it's been tradition for so long it doesn't seem like a good use of my time and energy to be offended over it. The references to God are like more poetic and symbolic in my perspective than spiritual.[/QUOTE]
They were definitely not added for poetry.
Seeing little kids recite a pledge to their nation and to a god [I]every fucking day[/I] gives me the creeps. Can't help but be reminded of Hitler youths or other serious cases of brainwashing.
I never really took any issue with the pledge back when I was school, nobody I knew did. We did it just because it was part of the morning routine, I don't think many people really took it seriously. And being honest here, none of us really knew anything politically back then. We "thought" we knew everything there was to know about politics but really everything we learned is what our parents and teachers taught us so nobody thought to "abstain from doing the pledge for political or religious reasons".
People not from the US might think the pledge was creepy but I think that's pretty misguided, we just did it because they told us to and the moment they stopped making us nobody did it anymore. Not sure I really care if these people want to not do the pledge or not, I never thought of it as anything important.
[QUOTE=Tsyolin;50935940]People not from the US might think the pledge was creepy but I think that's pretty misguided, we just did it because they told us to.[/QUOTE]
Well yeah that's the point.
[QUOTE=Tsyolin;50935940]I never really took any issue with the pledge back when I was school, nobody I knew did. We did it just because it was part of the morning routine, I don't think many people really took it seriously. And being honest here, none of us really knew anything politically back then. We "thought" we knew everything there was to know about politics but really everything we learned is what our parents and teachers taught us so nobody thought to "abstain from doing the pledge for political or religious reasons".
[B]People not from the US might think the pledge was creepy but I think that's pretty misguided, [/B]we just did it because they told us to and the moment they stopped making us nobody did it anymore. Not sure I really care if these people want to not do the pledge or not, I never thought of it as anything important.[/QUOTE]
I am from the U.S. and I think it's pretty creepy. Besides the blatant instillation of nationalism into kids too young to understand it, the additions from the 50s also have some pretty worrying overtones for a supposedly secular nation.
Also "we just did it because they told us to" doesn't help your case for it being less creepy :v:
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;50935651]I never saw it that way. I've always been atheist but I did the pledge anyway with the Under God and all.
I know what it means I just interpret it a different way. Less religious meaning and more of a "under God" being a collective unity of the American nation.
Same way the star field is in some interpretations of the flag is representing God. It just doesn't bug me it's been tradition for so long it doesn't seem like a good use of my time and energy to be offended over it. The references to God are like more poetic and symbolic in my perspective than spiritual.[/QUOTE]
You can interpret it how you'd like, but the intent was 100% moral pretention over communists, who were non-religious.
[editline]23rd August 2016[/editline]
Tbh this whole thing is ridiculous, anyway, but in a different way.
A [I]waiver[/I] to be excused from it? The "tradition's" intent boils down to nothing more than nationalistic indoctrination. It's why we have such "Patriotic" meat heads around, still, and why they'll still exist.
During my highschool graduation I declined to give a speech the administration had given me. In the speech there were 3 references to 9/11 (This was in 2015 mind you) and the rest of it was some pretty borderline nationalistic drivel.
The school administration got kinda pissy at me when I asked what the fuck 9/11 has to do with my graduation and asked me if I was there "To ruin everyones day"
[editline]23rd August 2016[/editline]
American schools can be pretty toxic and filled with overly patriotic wierdos. School should be be completely nonpolitical
[QUOTE=Tsyolin;50935940]I never really took any issue with the pledge back when I was school, nobody I knew did. We did it just because it was part of the morning routine, I don't think many people really took it seriously. And being honest here, none of us really knew anything politically back then. We "thought" we knew everything there was to know about politics but really everything we learned is what our parents and teachers taught us so nobody thought to "abstain from doing the pledge for political or religious reasons".
People not from the US might think the pledge was creepy but I think that's pretty misguided, we just did it because they told us to and the moment they stopped making us nobody did it anymore. Not sure I really care if these people want to not do the pledge or not, I never thought of it as anything important.[/QUOTE]
As kids, my friends and I never bothered question about the pledge. One kid in class did by not doing it, but it was hard to care because he was a known deliquent and got in trouble a lot in school. And of course in the end he was just being an ass, and was sent to the corner and the teacher talked to him.
As we got older, I believe (I still do) that the pledge is part of the whole American Patriotism culture since way back when. People may question it, but honestly there's no harm in loving the land that you live in in some form. I don't think its a religious thing either, but I recall my parents telling me when I was little that while its not necessary to do the pledge, doing it is a part of the Catholic Guideline of respecting peoples ideals; though I probably knew that already when I was in 4th Grade.
I mean sure there is some history about communists, but as kids in the 90s as old as 5 we didn't know better until High School.
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;50935961]I am from the U.S. and I think it's pretty creepy. Besides the blatant instillation of nationalism into kids too young to understand it, the additions from the 50s also have some pretty worrying overtones for a supposedly secular nation.
Also "we just did it because they told us to" doesn't help your case for it being less creepy :v:[/QUOTE]
Yeah but my point is we weren't into it, sure we said the pledge but it didn't mean anything to any of us. Hell it probably didn't mean anything to the teachers either, it was just something everybody was used to. If anybody had told us we didn't have to do the pledge anymore, nobody would have batted an eye. We just would have been glad we didn't have to stand up for 30 seconds and hold our hand on our chest anymore. I say this coming from a school where everybody was liberal as fuck.
[QUOTE=FingerSpazem;50935491]Me and several other students throughout elementary school and junior high would never recite the pledge, we never even stood for it either. No one ever made a fuss about it and no one should.[/QUOTE]
I've heard people at my school talk shit when they see people not standing for the pledge, calling them unpatriotic scum who essentially shit on the graves of dead soldiers.
welcome to texas?
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;50936252]I've heard people at my school talk shit when they see people not standing for the pledge, calling them unpatriotic scum who essentially shit on the graves of dead soldiers.
welcome to texas?[/QUOTE]
I live in texas and it was the exact opposite for me
the pledge is just a holdover from the mccarthy era anyways
still florida schools have much larger issues like their abysmal charter system
Does the US also play the national anthem before school starts?
[QUOTE=Liem;50936675]Does the US also play the national anthem before school starts?[/QUOTE]
No only before certain school events like sports games which is pretty much traditional amongst all American sports leagues, and sometimes band or choir concerts? I think that was really it though at my school.
[QUOTE=mralexs;50935628]IIRC the "Under God" part was added in the 50s to show those Godless Commies a thing or two.[/QUOTE]
And before the 40's, kids used to do a salute that might be misinterpreted
[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_American_flag_with_the_Bellamy_salute.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Tsyolin;50936768]No only before certain school events like sports games which is pretty much traditional amongst all American sports leagues, and sometimes band or choir concerts? I think that was really it though at my school.[/QUOTE]
ahhh, in Canada we don't have a pledge or anything but they played the anthem before school everyday. It was expected that'd you'd stand and remove hats, that was it tho.
I love saying the pledge of allegiance. Every Friday at my Hospital we recite the pledge over the Hospital wide PA system after morning colors, it's patriotic as hell to see everyone stop what they're doing to recite it (for you smart asses that doesn't include people involved in direct patient care.)
I think some of you guys look too much into it, it's pretty harmless. There's nothing wrong with a little bit of patriotism and pride in your country.
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