• Drug Testing for Government Assistance?
    32 replies, posted
How do you guys feel about this? I am totally for it. People with jobs have to take drug tests to be offered the position, so why are welfare recipients allowed to go without it? I realize not all welfare recipients are drug addicts, but the fact that they are able to feed off the system unsupervised is sickening.
I don't agree with works being able to drug test you unless you come into work high/drunk/whatever. Personally, what you do outside of work is not my business. If you want to smoke weed when you get home, do it. Just come into work the next day sober and do quality work, and I wouldn't care. However, I do agree with drug test people getting benefits from the government. If that's their only income they're likely using it to buy drugs.
[QUOTE=TehWhale;34488001]However, I do agree with drug test people getting benefits from the government. If that's their only income they're likely using it to buy drugs.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=TehWhale;34488001][b]If that's their only income they're likely using it to buy drugs.[/b][/QUOTE] are you fucking kidding me let's debase every single person on the fucking welfare system because they all must be on drugs and are OBVIOUSLY abusing the system to pay for their immoral and costly drug habits [editline]31st January 2012[/editline] also, a drug test will only ostracize the percentage of welfare recipients who actually do drugs, therefore leading them to deal some/more drugs you shouldn't cut them off, you should help rehabilitate them
[QUOTE=SystemGS;34488030] you shouldn't cut them off, you should help rehabilitate them[/QUOTE] I'm kind of feeling this, but maybe make it to where if they ARE on drugs, then they have to go to a rehab program/prove they're clean to continue getting a full benefit. Otherwise it should be limited to the bare necessities to encourage them to avoid the products. If you're living on the government's money, you play by the government's rules, like a parent.
[QUOTE=G71tc4;34488098]I'm kind of feeling this, but maybe make it to where if they ARE on drugs, then they have to go to a rehab program/prove they're clean to continue getting a full benefit. Otherwise it should be limited to the bare necessities to encourage them to avoid the products. If you're living on the government's money, you play by the government's rules, like a parent.[/QUOTE] That makes sense to me. You just need to stretch the hand out and make the gesture.
[QUOTE=SystemGS;34488030]are you fucking kidding me let's debase every single person on the fucking welfare system because they all must be on drugs and are OBVIOUSLY abusing the system to pay for their immoral and costly drug habits [editline]31st January 2012[/editline] also, a drug test will only ostracize the percentage of welfare recipients who actually do drugs, therefore leading them to deal some/more drugs you shouldn't cut them off, you should help rehabilitate them[/QUOTE]not what I meant that came out wrong. if they're testing positive for drugs, and welfare is their only income, it's likely they're using that to buy the drugs
[QUOTE=TehWhale;34488158]not what I meant that came out wrong. if they're testing positive for drugs, and welfare is their only income, it's likely they're using that to buy the drugs[/QUOTE] or they're trading drugs and using the welfare money for other purposes, like paying for rent it's never that black and white
I believe that anyone receiving government benefits should be required to perform community service for the entire time they are receiving money and submit to random drug tests. If they take or sell drugs, they should lose all benefits. I sincerely believe that a good portion of people receiving things like welfare for any extended period of time (>4-5 months) are abusing the system. Sure, the economy may be in the shitter but I know that every time I leave my house, I see "help wanted" signs posted all over the damn place. There's work to be done but too many people would sooner receive unemployment or welfare and sit at home making the same amount they would working a minimum wage job.
[QUOTE=RubberDuckeh;34488228]I believe that anyone receiving government benefits should be required to perform community service for the entire time they are receiving money and submit to random drug tests. If they take or sell drugs, they should lose all benefits. I sincerely believe that a good portion of people receiving things like welfare for any extended period of time (>4-5 months) are abusing the system. Sure, the economy may be in the shitter but I know that every time I leave my house, I see "help wanted" signs posted all over the damn place. There's work to be done but too many people would sooner receive unemployment or welfare and sit at home making the same amount they would working a minimum wage job.[/QUOTE] yes, let's make the single mothers with 4 children work community service hours for their benefits that's a superb idea you fail to realize that a lot of the time, people end up on welfare not on their own volition, but because society gets in the way. a lot of welfare dependents are single mothers with a few children, so they have a family to raise and other things to take care of. plus, the job market is pretty shit, and usually, these people can't help themselves you can try to make this as objective and impersonal as possible, where everyone who is using welfare for over four months is obviously abusing it, but when you really look at these people, they're not as simple as you assume
What if it's prescription medication? My dad's on medicinal weed and he's on welfare.
[QUOTE=HorizoN;34488319]What if it's prescription medication? My dad's on medicinal weed and he's on welfare.[/QUOTE]Yes, that's perfectly okay in my eyes.
I don't see anything wrong with drug testing welfare recipients, if you don't have a job than you have the time to go maybe twice a month to wherever you apply for food stamps, welfare checks, etc. How you can lose benefits. -Miss 2 drug test appointments. -Testing positive for drugs. How to keep -Be drug free. -Go to all your appointments. Its not debasing to have to get a drug test, you have to get one when you work, why should it be any different when your being paid to sit on your ass or finding a job. People who work have to deal with it, so should people getting free money. Not all people are using the system to buy drugs or just not work at all, but there are people who do it, more than you think. Those people should be kicked off the program so people who actually are using it for the time in between jobs can get the money they need. If your the good person and are not on drugs, you shouldn't care about having to be tested because you know your going to pass and so what if its a hour or two inconvenience, you know you will walk away knowing that a check and stamps will be in the mail to keep you and your family fed and housed.
[QUOTE=assassin_Raptor;34488449]I don't see anything wrong with drug testing welfare recipients, if you don't have a job than you have the time to go maybe twice a month to wherever you apply for food stamps, welfare checks, etc. How you can lose benefits. -Miss 2 drug test appointments. -Testing positive for drugs. How to keep -Be drug free. -Go to all your appointments. Its not debasing to have to get a drug test, you have to get one when you work, why should it be any different when your being paid to sit on your ass or finding a job. People who work have to deal with it, so should people getting free money. Not all people are using the system to buy drugs or just not work at all, but there are people who do it, more than you think. Those people should be kicked off the program so people who actually are using it for the time in between jobs can get the money they need. If your the good person and are not on drugs, you shouldn't care about having to be tested because you know your going to pass and so what if its a hour or two inconvenience, you know you will walk away knowing that a check and stamps will be in the mail to keep you and your family fed and housed.[/QUOTE] if you're not a pirate you shouldn't have to worry about sopa/pipa/acta
[QUOTE=HorizoN;34488319]What if it's prescription medication? My dad's on medicinal weed and he's on welfare.[/QUOTE] If you live in a state that allows medicinal marijuana use and you present the card for it, you shouldn't be disallowed benefits since the drug is keeping you pain free and what not, although im sure people will have the card without a legitimate reason. [editline]31st January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=SystemGS;34488476]if you're not a pirate you shouldn't have to worry about sopa/pipa/acta[/QUOTE] That's completely different, SOPA/PIPA/and ACTA are censor laws that just don't go with the principles America was founded on. The government is not responsible to pay you if you cant find a job or you don't want to work, but the program has been in affect so long people think its a right to have those benefits.
[QUOTE=assassin_Raptor;34488485]That's completely different, SOPA/PIPA/and ACTA are censor laws that just don't go with the principles America was founded on. The government is not responsible to pay you if you cant find a job or you don't want to work, but the program has been in affect so long people think its a right to have those benefits.[/QUOTE] it's the same point, though. you're telling me that as long as i don't do drugs, i shouldn't have to worry about drug tests. i'm simply parroting your view with sopa, where if you don't pirate, you shouldn't have to worry about it going into effect sopa is just as unconstitutional as forcing people to take drug tests when they don't need to, both limit the inalienable rights of people [editline]31st January 2012[/editline] you may catch some pirates or drug users in either process, but in general, you inhibit the masses the situation of downloading a song that was copyrighted that you didn't know about is the same as ingesting something with similar properties to a drug, either way you lose your benefits/get arrested point is, they're the same
The welfare programs inhibit the whole population of people who work, since taxes must be acquired to pay for those without jobs, and for the ones using the system because they can. The program isn't perfect, its here and its gonna stay, this would be one step to make sure the system is used correctly and not milked just because people have found loop holes in the system. I don't believe its unconstitutional, your using a federal program, one that was not a guaranteed right when the constitution was drafted, people think of it as a right but its not. Your using a federal program so you should be complient to any mandate that is brought fourth since the rest of the population who does work pays for you to not work. The right step in correcting a otherwise faulty system. Your point with SOPA is valid, but there is nothing in the bill of rights or constitution that says the government has to provide free money to those who are not in work. Where as the Constitution does say we have a right to free speech which SOPA would take away. SOPA would catch a lot of pirates, I don't know anyone who has not pirated something. But in a whole, SOPA, PIPA and ACTA are not just bad for America, its bad for the whole world.
[QUOTE=assassin_Raptor;34488835]The welfare programs inhibit the whole population of people who work, since taxes must be acquired to pay for those without jobs, and for the ones using the system because they can. The program isn't perfect, its here and its gonna stay, this would be one step to make sure the system is used correctly and not milked just because people have found loop holes in the system. I don't believe its unconstitutional, your using a federal program, one that was not a guaranteed right when the constitution was drafted, people think of it as a right but its not. Your using a federal program so you should be complient to any mandate that is brought fourth since the rest of the population who does work pays for you to not work. The right step in correcting a otherwise faulty system. Your point with SOPA is valid, but there is nothing in the bill of rights or constitution that says the government has to provide free money to those who are not in work. Where as the Constitution does say we have a right to free speech which SOPA would take away. SOPA would catch a lot of pirates, I don't know anyone who has not pirated something. But in a whole, SOPA, PIPA and ACTA are not just bad for America, its bad for the whole world.[/QUOTE] sopa doesn't nullify your first amendment right, i don't know where you got this fatalistic idea from the welfare program doesn't inhibit all people who work, it's not some huge impediment
[QUOTE=faze;34487409]How do you guys feel about this? I am totally for it. People with jobs have to take drug tests to be offered the position, so why are welfare recipients allowed to go without it? I realize not all welfare recipients are drug addicts, but the fact that they are able to feed off the system unsupervised is sickening.[/QUOTE] what problem will making thousands upon thousands of drug addicts homeless in addition to being drug addicts solve apart from saving you a few dollars on your tax return? (it won't even save you any money because the drug testing will cost at least as much money as it would save)
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;34488978]what problem will making thousands upon thousands of drug addicts homeless in addition to being drug addicts solve apart from saving you a few dollars on your tax return? (it won't even save you any money because the drug testing will cost at least as much money as it would save)[/QUOTE] not to mention that it will nearly useless, as circumventing drug testing is a long-studied art among the downtrodden
It takes away tax dollars that could go to something better than some person who is just gonna use it to get high or not work for the rest of their life. Why let these people get away with using tax dollars to do drugs or to just not work, I don't want to work so others don't have to, and for others to get high. I don't mind if it goes to helping the single moms, the just fired person looking for a job, but its wrong to take hard working peoples money and give it to lowlife druggies and people to lazy to work. SOPA would highly restricy your first ammendment right due to the fact it would reduce the websites with 'open submitions' for user made content, based on the fact that SOPA would sue the website host/owner for the content on the website even if it was user submitted content. Doing the aforementioned would cause many social networking websites and user based content websites/webforums like reddit, wiki, ect to close down due to not wanting to be sued. [editline]31st January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=SigmaLambda;34488978]what problem will making thousands upon thousands of drug addicts homeless in addition to being drug addicts solve apart from saving you a few dollars on your tax return? (it won't even save you any money because the drug testing will cost at least as much money as it would save)[/QUOTE] 13 piss test cups can be bought here for 13$([url]http://www.drugtestingworld.com/drug-test-cups-13-drugs-test-cup-c-58_61_77.html[/url]). The 13 people it will test for $12 could save $2400 a month if each person gets $200 a month. A family of four can get up to $930 a month, its a shame to take away that income but if your using it to do drugs than your gonna have to quit drugs, and re apply and stay clean while you look for work. $ amounts per month found here [url]http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080821191642AAp0vCG[/url] Not the best source, don't know how legit it is, but it provides a figure.
[QUOTE=assassin_Raptor;34489147]13 piss test cups can be bought here for 13$([url]http://www.drugtestingworld.com/drug-test-cups-13-drugs-test-cup-c-58_61_77.html[/url]). The 13 people it will test for $12 could save $2400 a month if each person gets $200 a month. A family of four can get up to $930 a month, its a shame to take away that income but if your using it to do drugs than your gonna have to quit drugs, and re apply and stay clean while you look for work. $ amounts per month found here [url]http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080821191642AAp0vCG[/url] Not the best source, don't know how legit it is, but it provides a figure.[/QUOTE] the piss test cups don't test themselves you know
how about no one gets drug tested, and if they can't do their job they don't get the job or fired, and what they do in their free time doesn't matter to the company. Imagine if they asked for your facepunch account, [I]oh you were trolling in that post about PETA we can't higher you we are PETA affiliates.[/I] How about you go to the roots of this, the drug war, and the government 'taking care' of everything. Do away with both. [I]But wait, You can't do away with the war on drugs! People will try all the drugs and become addicts! [/I]Well if say, you get addicted to heroin, it's just basic Darwinism.
[QUOTE=Odi;34489388]how about no one gets drug tested, and if they can't do their job they don't get the job or fired, and what they do in their free time doesn't matter to the company. Imagine if they asked for your facepunch account, [I]oh you were trolling in that post about PETA we can't higher you we are PETA affiliates.[/I] How about you go to the roots of this, the drug war, and the government 'taking care' of everything. Do away with both. [I]But wait, You can't do away with the war on drugs! People will try all the drugs and become addicts! [/I]Well if say, you get addicted to heroin, it's just basic Darwinism.[/QUOTE] what the fuck are you talking about we're talking about drug testing, not the war on drugs or getting hired by a company also getting addicted to heroin isn't "basic darwinism", darwinism wouldn't promote the evolution of a heroin-addicted master race because it doesn't follow darwinistic principles stoopid
I would be fine with drug abusers getting welfare payments... if they agree to attend rehab, actually [I]attend[/I] rehab and begin making a clear effort towards finding a steady source of income. Don't go to appointments? Aren't looking for a job? Still using drugs? Too bad. That money has better uses elsewhere. Welfare money does not belong to the recipients. Welfare is not a job. It's not supposed to be an excuse to avoid work and feed destructive habits. The money belongs to the government and as such the government gets to choose how it is spent.
The reason why this was declared unconstitutional in Florida (I think it was Florida, but I'm not sure) is because there was no evidence that drug testing would help anything. Drug testing costs a lot of money, and there's no data that says not providing welfare to people because they use drugs, or rather have drugs in their system, is going to save the government, our society, or country as a whole any money. I think the judge said something along the lines of, you can't drug test individuals if there's no reason to (ie. they've not been reported or there's no evidence that drug testing would save the state money). There was actually a study done claiming that it would save the state up to $2.1 billion or something like that, but the judge declared the study shady. It was filled with holes and was performed by a close friend of the senator who proposed the bill rather than a 3rd party organization.
[QUOTE=assassin_Raptor;34489147]13 piss test cups can be bought here for 13$([url]http://www.drugtestingworld.com/drug...-58_61_77.html[/url]). The 13 people it will test for $12 could save $2400 a month if each person gets $200 a month. A family of four can get up to $930 a month, its a shame to take away that income but if your using it to do drugs than your gonna have to quit drugs, and re apply and stay clean while you look for work. $ amounts per month found here [url]http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...1191642AAp0vCG[/url] Not the best source, don't know how legit it is, but it provides a figure. [/QUOTE] you also have to hire federal employees, give those federal employees benefits, rent building space, and engage in the vast amounts of bureaucracy necessary to keep these people informed of their impending drug tests via the postal service. also please stop honking on the "lowlife druggies" horn because that's shallow and if i were in a venue that didn't go absolutely bonkers at the dropping of the r word I'd even accuse that mentality of being racist.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;34488978]what problem will making thousands upon thousands of drug addicts homeless in addition to being drug addicts solve apart from saving you a few dollars on your tax return? (it won't even save you any money because the drug testing will cost at least as much money as it would save)[/QUOTE] This is only to help people with a problem. A good percentage of welfare recipients are on drugs, and use MY TAX DOLLARS to pay for their drug habits. This will basically force them to fail a drug test, and be put into rehab at no cost to them. If I have to take a drug test before being offered a job, they can take a drug test to get free money. Not like they're that busy right, no job and all... Nothing against them, but they can afford an hour out of their life to take a fucking piss test. I'm paying their bills, so therefore they can pee in a cup to prove they aren't a drug addict. If they have nothing to hide, they'll be fine and shouldn't be whining.
[QUOTE=faze;34492632]This is only to help people with a problem. A good percentage of welfare recipients are on drugs, and use MY TAX DOLLARS to pay for their drug habits. This will basically force them to fail a drug test, and be put into rehab at no cost to them. If I have to take a drug test before being offered a job, they can take a drug test to get free money. Not like they're that busy right, no job and all... Nothing against them, but they can afford an hour out of their life to take a fucking piss test. I'm paying their bills, so therefore they can pee in a cup to prove they aren't a drug addict. If they have nothing to hide, they'll be fine and shouldn't be whining.[/QUOTE] no, you need to look at it pragmatically instead of ideologically. if you rescind welfare for people who use drugs then guess what? you've just created tens of thousands of new homeless people who, because of the cycle of poverty, will likely stay homeless for the rest of their lives. you've created a vast crime wave spurred on by thousands of people having nothing else left to turn to. you've made conditions even worse for tens of thousands of children whose parents now have even less money than they did before, and those children will grow up desperately poor because of mistakes their parents made and all because you want to save a few dollars on your tax return, even though, again, this plan will cost at least as much money as it saves. that sounds like a wicked shitty way to improve the country.
Are we talking only about America or is any other country in the world allowed to join the party? Personally I think there should be nothing wrong with allowing companies to endorse a drug test. Though there's a difference between being addicted and using it on rare occasions. Treating all people exactly the same never really works, that includes drug addicts and single moms.
[QUOTE=Recurracy;34492828]Are we talking only about America or is any other country in the world allowed to join the party? Personally I think there should be nothing wrong with allowing companies to endorse a drug test. Though there's a difference between being addicted and using it on rare occasions. Treating all people exactly the same never really works, that includes drug addicts and single moms.[/QUOTE] It wasn't about companies, specifically governments.
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