• Pavement glued down in Hong Kong for China official visit
    30 replies, posted
[quote]Paving stones in central Hong Kong have been glued down to prevent protesters using them as missiles, as authorities roll out elaborate security measures ahead of a high-level Chinese visit that could stoke resentment over mainland rule. The measures, which include barricades in central Hong Kong, come as Beijing tightens its grip on the semi-autonomous city where a fledgling independence movement in recent months has angered China.[/quote] [quote]Running battles with police in February, which included "localist" protesters in favour of more autonomy for Hong Kong, saw demonstrators dig up bricks from the street and throw them at officers. A Hong Kong man linked to the city's pro-democracy opposition was also arrested in China on Sunday over a suspected plot to use a drone to disrupt Zhang's visit, according to Chinese state media.[/quote] [url]https://sg.news.yahoo.com/pavement-glued-down-hong-kong-china-official-visit-054251294.html[/url]
I get the feeling that Hong Kong is going to be independent sooner or later, it's politics seem to be drifting further and further from the rest of China and I don't see the Chinese government combatting it without giving them more reasons to oppose them.
Their time away from China is what made them as developed as they are, obviously they're not happy with China getting more power over them.
[QUOTE=Nerts;50331171]I get the feeling that Hong Kong is going to be independent sooner or later, it's politics seem to be drifting further and further from the rest of China and I don't see the Chinese government combatting it without giving them more reasons to oppose them.[/QUOTE] Would be a great turn towards splitting China into smaller countries. So many people should never be under the same flag, it's impossible with today's politics - especially China's.
[QUOTE=Nerts;50331171]I get the feeling that Hong Kong is going to be independent sooner or later, it's politics seem to be drifting further and further from the rest of China and I don't see the Chinese government combatting it without giving them more reasons to oppose them.[/QUOTE] Unless they arm to the teeth or there is overseas intervention it will be another Tiananmen Square and regardless what we see, China will sweep it under the rug and tell the rest of the population nothing ever happened.
[QUOTE=Nerts;50331171]I get the feeling that Hong Kong is going to be independent sooner or later, it's politics seem to be drifting further and further from the rest of China and I don't see the Chinese government combatting it without giving them more reasons to oppose them.[/QUOTE] Unless Hong Kong is gifted nuclear weapons by someone they have zero means to become an independent nation in the current climate.
[QUOTE=download;50331238]Unless Hong Kong is gifted nuclear weapons by someone they have zero means to become an independent nation in the current climate.[/QUOTE] [img]http://www.weplayciv.com/images/civ5/bienvenue/Civ5Screen0223.jpg[/img] Anyone got any spare?
[QUOTE=pentium;50331227]Unless they arm to the teeth or there is overseas intervention it will be another Tiananmen Square and regardless what we see, China will sweep it under the rug and tell the rest of the population nothing ever happened.[/QUOTE] Then they'll remember to hold their military parades each year on the bloodied square just for good measure HK and Chinese politics in general will not change while the grease of money keeps flowing. People probably hate the terrible state of their country but at the same time the Communist party keeps them "safe", has provided steady growth, and rising living standards for decades now which has more than maintained the status quo
[QUOTE=pentium;50331227]Unless they arm to the teeth or there is overseas intervention it will be another Tiananmen Square and regardless what we see, China will sweep it under the rug and tell the rest of the population nothing ever happened.[/QUOTE] it's not the 1990s anymore, most Chinese people learn about events within the country rather quickly because of the internet and mobile telecoms - it's a very leaky bucket and the CPC is barely keeping a handle on it protests are already growing in size and scope throughout china in addition to religions and new political organisations
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50331259]it's not the 1990s anymore, most Chinese people learn about events within the country rather quickly because of the internet and mobile telecoms - it's a very leaky bucket and the CPC is barely keeping a handle on it protests are already growing in size and scope throughout china in addition to religions and new political organisations[/QUOTE] It doesn't matter that they censor stuff, people there are generally apathetic about it, to the point that they don't even know the names of the events to look up
Chinese mainlanders will never accept Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan as separate sovereign nations. Make reforms in the Beijing government towards more freedom and keep the status quo with the special administrative regions, yes. But, the Chinese would rather see them burn than to acknowledge them as independent countries.
you guys are too idealistic on hong kongs siutation, weve been protesting for ages and at this point its just another headline for the news and nothing new imo HK independence will never happen but im all for more autonomy least I'll be moving out by 2040
[QUOTE=Goldb207;50331379]you guys are too idealistic on hong kongs siutation, weve been protesting for ages and at this point its just another headline for the news and nothing new imo HK independence will never happen but im all for more autonomy least I'll be moving out by 2040[/QUOTE] Sorry for your situation. I am a proponent of "One China" as a cultural and political entity and believe that HK should be chinese territory, but I am not a fan of the CPC and how they tend to do things.
[QUOTE=Aegis°;50331397]Sorry for your situation. I am a proponent of "One China" as a cultural and political entity and believe that HK should be chinese territory, but I am not a fan of the CPC and how they tend to do things.[/QUOTE] The CPC is one of the main reasons why HK and Taiwan will never join in mainland China in the near future unless by brute-force invasion, in worst case scenario.
Hong Kong is now a Chinese colony as opposed to a British one. I did my dissertation on the topic so could theoretically see the island attaining independence, but only through an internationally-supported rebellion which makes Chinese rule there cost far more than it benefits the mainland. To extricate Hong Kong from Chinese rule in this manner would sacrifice the economy of the island and also exacerbate wider geopolitical tensions however, so Hong Kong likely won't emerge from under the yoke of China just yet. As mentioned before, nuclear weapons would help to attain independence but are a flawed solution in themselves. Culturally, Hong Kong has it's own distinct, nationalist identity and the inhabitants of the islands (as also mentioned before) hate the fact that they are a possession of China's.
[QUOTE=Ruski v2.0;50331500]Hong Kong is now a Chinese colony as opposed to a British one. I did my dissertation on the topic so could theoretically see the island attaining independence, but only through an internationally-supported rebellion which makes Chinese rule there cost far more than it benefits the mainland. To extricate Hong Kong from Chinese rule in this manner would sacrifice the economy of the island and also exacerbate wider geopolitical tensions however, so Hong Kong likely won't emerge from under the yoke of China just yet. As mentioned before, nuclear weapons would help to attain independence but are a flawed solution in themselves. Culturally, Hong Kong has it's own distinct, nationalist identity and the inhabitants of the islands (as also mentioned before) hate the fact that they are a possession of China's.[/QUOTE] They also hate that mainland China may have killed the Hong Kong Action Theatre genre (or at least watered it down)
[QUOTE=Tools;50331193]Would be a great turn towards splitting China into smaller countries. So many people should never be under the same flag, it's impossible with today's politics - especially China's.[/QUOTE] so are you saying the USA should be split up as well?
[QUOTE=Medevila;50331605]we tried that once, interestingly enough along the same fissure lines we seem to have today[/QUOTE] We got a couple more centuries before the mandate of heaven is lost again
[QUOTE=lintz;50331567]so are you saying the USA should be split up as well?[/QUOTE] Probably wouldn't be the worse thing that could happen. After all, the US started as thirteen states and now it has forty-eight across an entire continent, and two states that are not a part of the contiguous states. The Australian states cooperate incredibly well with each other, but that's because there are only six states (and two mainland territories) and that means you can reasonably get the heads of government of each state, territory and the federal government to sit at a table to discuss things.
[QUOTE=Tools;50331193]Would be a great turn towards splitting China into smaller countries. So many people should never be under the same flag, it's impossible with today's politics - especially China's.[/QUOTE] The Balkanization of China would certainly be an interesting turn of events, though it'd probably require a serious revolution to crack such a titan into different states. Plus, there's always the potential for a Balkanizing revolution, or any revolution for that matter, to turn bloody.
[QUOTE=Tools;50331193]Would be a great turn towards splitting China into smaller countries. So many people should never be under the same flag, it's impossible with today's politics - especially China's.[/QUOTE] This will never, ever fucking happen. China will not Balkanise. They are ethnically, ideologically and linguistically (through Mandarin) homogeneous, with the notable exceptions of Tibet and Xinjiang, although they aren't breaking away with the rest of China bearing down on them. Things are further complicated by the fact that they have significant Han minorities. I have no clue why you think China should Balkanise, considering it would result in probably a large loss of life and a general lowering of HDI across the board for all parties involved, as well as destabilising a nuclear nation which has massive influence on the most densely populated area of the earth.
i think you mean han majority. 92% of all chinese people are of the Han race
[QUOTE=Sableye;50331358]It doesn't matter that they censor stuff, people there are generally apathetic about it, to the point that they don't even know the names of the events to look up[/QUOTE] While in Copenhagen, i asked a chinese traveler what he thinks. He said its hardship, but the economic stability and prosperity of the country made it justified.
[QUOTE=lintz;50331979]i think you mean han majority. 92% of all chinese people are of the Han race[/QUOTE] Yep, but in Xinjiang province the native Uyghur people make up a slightly larger majority of the ethinic groups, and in Tibet, and the majority are Ethnically Tibetan. In the other Autonomous Chinese provinces of Guangxi, Inner Mongolia, and Ningxia, Han make up the ethnic majority. I only mentioned Tibet and Xinjiang as having significant Han minorities, because they both are a decent chunk of the provinces population. As we saw in the Balkans, things can get fucking complicated when things aren't completely clear cut.
[QUOTE=The Aussie;50331955]This will never, ever fucking happen. China will not Balkanise. They are ethnically, ideologically and linguistically (through Mandarin) homogeneous, with the notable exceptions of Tibet and Xinjiang, although they aren't breaking away with the rest of China bearing down on them. Things are further complicated by the fact that they have significant Han minorities. I have no clue why you think China should Balkanise, considering it would result in probably a large loss of life and a general lowering of HDI across the board for all parties involved, as well as destabilising a nuclear nation which has massive influence on the most densely populated area of the earth.[/QUOTE] China has been balkanised for most of its life.
I don't understand the point of breaking countries up. There may be short term benefits, but in the long run a unified identity and economy is going to raise everyone's standard of living and reduce conflict. Hong Kong's standard of living might drop in the short term, which is why I can understand resistance to the idea, but unification is inevitable.
[QUOTE=download;50334194]China has been balkanised for most of its life.[/QUOTE] china has spent most of the past two and a half thousand years being a unified civilization state
[QUOTE=Goldb207;50331379]you guys are too idealistic on hong kongs siutation, weve been protesting for ages and at this point its just another headline for the news and nothing new imo HK independence will never happen but im all for more autonomy least I'll be moving out by 2040[/QUOTE] why does you're flag say uk then?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50334699]china has spent most of the past two and a half thousand years being a unified civilization state[/QUOTE] Not true. Technically 'unified' but there were constant rebellions- it was the natural way of things to prove the dynasty should retain its place in society. E.g. 1800-1911: Aftermath of White Lotus rebellion, Nien rebellion, Taiping rebellion (which captured a good deal of the country and would have become a new dynasty had the military leaders marched straight for Beijing), Two Muslim rebellions, the Red-Turban Rebellion, Triad rebellions, the Boxer uprising, the 1911 rebellion... At one point the Qing dynasty during this period held less than 1/3rd of China. That was just an example during one century. The lesson I've learned from studying China has been that the regime is never quite as secure as it seems. [editline]17th May 2016[/editline] Also sob stop being a fgt and update the Fallout RP. <3
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50334699]china has spent most of the past two and a half thousand years being a unified civilization state[/QUOTE] not really, historically its been a series of kingdoms, with the occasional unified empire which only lasted a few generations
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