• Northern Michigan University threatens students who openly discuss their suicidal thoughts.
    21 replies, posted
[quote]In the winter of 2015, a student at Northern Michigan University named Katerina Klawes sought out help at the university’s counseling office. She had been sexually assaulted in July of 2014 and wanted to talk about her experiences with a professional. As it turns out, Klawes was just one of dozens of NMU students, if not more, who have been told over the years that they could face disciplinary action for discussing their suicidal thoughts, according to an investigation and [URL="https://www.thefire.org/fire-to-northern-michigan-u-end-ban-on-students-discussing-self-harm/"]press release[/URL] just published by the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education. The ostensible goal of the policy is to “protect” students from other students’ suicidal thoughts and actions. But this policy, in addition to violating students’ free-speech rights, could also be doing serious harm to vulnerable students at NMU, according to mental-health experts.[/quote] [URL="http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/09/a-school-is-threatening-to-punish-its-suicidal-students.html"]SOURCE 1[/URL] [URL="http://www.complex.com/life/2016/09/northern-michigan-university-warns-students-about-discussing-suicidal-thoughts"]SOURCE 2[/URL] Couldn't find any other sources on this, I just saw it trending on my Facebook news feed.
Wow. NMU investigated when?
People need to start fighting this shit or universities and colleges will act like they can get away with it.
Wait so if they went through the counseling office then how did the school even find out? Wouldn't that violate patient-therapist confidentiality? I know they can legally do that in California due to laws legally obligating therapists to report suicidal thoughts to the authorities, but I don't know if Michigan has a similar law in place
By god, if one of those students commit suicide after this, I think the university should be charged with mass negligence. They should probably be charged anyway. This is absolutely and completely wrong and sounds like a policy from the 19th century. A terrible, terrible attitude to mental health that will only lead to harm for students and others.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51095823]By god, if one of those students commit suicide after this, I think the university should be charged with mass negligence. They should probably be charged anyway. This is absolutely and completely wrong and sounds like a policy from the 19th century. A terrible, terrible attitude to mental health that will only lead to harm for students and others.[/QUOTE] To play the devils advocate a lot of areas in the US have laws obligating therapists to either alert authorities to a patient who admits to suicidal thoughts or behaviors. In California for example if a cop or a therapist finds that you're at risk of suicide they are legally obligated to have you arrested and confined to a mental institution for a minimum time of 3 days (although such a hold can be increased by 2 weeks or even indefinitely at the discretion of the institution) [editline]23rd September 2016[/editline] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5150_(involuntary_psychiatric_hold)[/url]
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51095833]To play the devils advocate a lot of areas in the US have laws obligating therapists to either alert authorities to a patient who admits to suicidal thoughts or behaviors. In California for example if a cop or a therapist finds that you're at risk of suicide they are legally obligated to have you arrested and confined to a mental institution for a minimum time of 3 days (although such a hold can be increased by 2 weeks or even indefinitely at the discretion of the institution) [editline]23rd September 2016[/editline] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5150_(involuntary_psychiatric_hold)[/url][/QUOTE] There's a significant difference between that and not allowing students to actually discuss their thoughts and get their issues out there. I'll also point out that you have to be absolutely extremely careful with arresting a suicidal person. It as the potential to damage them further, and holding them in a mental institution they don't want to be in sounds like me a recipe for disaster. Mental health and how it is treated across the world is an absolute disgrace. There needs to be greater education and awareness among the general public and services such as the police, etc. on how to deal with mental health.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51095899]There's a significant difference between that and not allowing students to actually discuss their thoughts and get their issues out there. I'll also point out that you have to be absolutely extremely careful with arresting a suicidal person. It as the potential to damage them further, and holding them in a mental institution they don't want to be in sounds like me a recipe for disaster.[/QUOTE] As someone who has been arrested for being suicidal I can say how much of a disaster it is largely depends on the quality of the hospital and of the treatment. I've been held in institutions that were essentially prisons, and I've been held in hospitals that genuinely did their hardest to help me. Past a certain point you really do need to confine suicidal people for treatment. The issue is that the treatment they get is almost universally inadequate.
Because if there's any way to help quell suicidal thoughts it's to keep pushing them down and to not let anyone know how you really feel.
This is some ridiculous shit. Mental health needs to be more openly discussed and treated as a serious threat and schools need to start lecturing on how to deal with mental health problems, not sweep them aside like they don't matter. If people with depression, abuse history or suicidal thoughts would be treated with a bit of respect, then maybe so many people wouldn't commit suicide every year.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51095982] Past a certain point you really do need to confine suicidal people for treatment. The issue is that the treatment they get is almost universally inadequate.[/QUOTE] I don't understand this logic. For younger people, I agree. But for a grown adult who has decided they no longer wish to live, why should the police be able to have them forcefully committed to a mental institution? I don't condone suicide in any way, but I firmly believe in an individual's right to choose to end their life if they're in suffering. Nobody should be forced to suffer.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51095982]As someone who has been arrested for being suicidal I can say how much of a disaster it is largely depends on the quality of the hospital and of the treatment. I've been held in institutions that were essentially prisons, and I've been held in hospitals that genuinely did their hardest to help me. Past a certain point you really do need to confine suicidal people for treatment. The issue is that the treatment they get is almost universally inadequate.[/QUOTE] solving suicide-threatened people by putting them in situations that'd make them want to kill themselves more. seems right. [editline]24th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Quark:;51097352]I don't understand this logic. For younger people, I agree. But for a grown adult who has decided they no longer wish to live, why should the police be able to have them forcefully committed to a mental institution? I don't condone suicide in any way, but I firmly believe in an individual's right to choose to end their life if they're in suffering. Nobody should be forced to suffer.[/QUOTE] Disgusts me that in a modern first world country you can be locked up at the request of a doctor even if there's nothing actually wrong with you.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;51098025]solving suicide-threatened people by putting them in situations that'd make them want to kill themselves more. seems right.[/QUOTE] As someone who has been through this multiple times i can say with 100% certainty that putting someone on a psychiatric hold decreases the odds of them committing suicide. Most of the people put on holds are people who were either actively planning to kill themselves or people who tried and failed to kill themselves. Putting these people in a controlled environment on suicide watch is literally the only way to insure that they dont try again. The only issue is that therapists are obligated to tell authorities that a patient is suicidal, this has the unfortunate side effect of causing people to lie to their therapists to avoid being put on a hold. [editline]24th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Quark:;51097352] I don't condone suicide in any way, but I firmly believe in an individual's right to choose to end their life if they're in suffering. Nobody should be forced to suffer.[/QUOTE] Allowing people to commit suicide die to psychological suffering is an ethical can of worms. The biggest issue is that people with extremely impaired judgement (aka suicidally depressed people) shouldn't be allowed to consent to their own death for the same reasons that legally insane people are found not guilty for crimes. Furthermore depression is a treatable illness.
Depression isn't always the source of someone wanting to suicide though.
[quote]The ostensible goal of the policy is to “protect” students from other students’ suicidal thoughts and actions[/quote] Yes, let's continue the stereotype of American higher education being about coddling your students and running a fucking kindergarten so you can shelter them from all the evil things in the world, that sure is gonna end well.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51095833]To play the devils advocate a lot of areas in the US have laws obligating therapists to either alert authorities to a patient who admits to suicidal thoughts or behaviors. In California for example if a cop or a therapist finds that you're at risk of suicide they are legally obligated to have you arrested and confined to a mental institution for a minimum time of 3 days (although such a hold can be increased by 2 weeks or even indefinitely at the discretion of the institution) [editline]23rd September 2016[/editline] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5150_(involuntary_psychiatric_hold)[/url][/QUOTE] 5150 is the worst shit ever. I got stuck in a mental institution for five days after attempting suicide in sophomore year of high school. They strip your rights away and you're basically subject to their mercy. As it turns out, being stuck in almost-prison with drab grey walls and low ceilings and only breifly talking to a doctor once during my stay did not help with my mental health. Not to mention all but one of the other patients were in there for homicidal reasons. Dunno how it would be for someone who isn't a minor, though.
I have never been more suicidal in my life than when I was in a mental institution for having suicidal thoughts. I literally stopped eating entirely for 4 days. I only started eating again because my Mother told me in a phone call that they would hospitalize me and forcefully drip-feed me nutrition to keep me from dying if I continued. America's mental health system can go fuck itself.
[QUOTE=kijji;51095749][URL="http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/09/a-school-is-threatening-to-punish-its-suicidal-students.html"]SOURCE 1[/URL] [URL="http://www.complex.com/life/2016/09/northern-michigan-university-warns-students-about-discussing-suicidal-thoughts"]SOURCE 2[/URL] Couldn't find any other sources on this, I just saw it trending on my Facebook news feed.[/QUOTE] Hello, I'm Katerina Klawes. The girl mentioned in the article. Here are some articles that talk about it. I'm also happy to answer any questions. For clarification, I had not mentioned being suicidal or any self-harm thoughts. There were students who were suspended under this policy, who said they didn't talk about thoughts of self-harm, but things were misconstrued. [url]http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/09/a-school-is-threatening-to-punish-its-suicidal-students.html[/url] [url]https://www.thefire.org/as-northern-michigan-u-responds-to-national-criticism-serious-questions-remain/[/url]
What exactly is going on at NMU? Also, sorry about what had happened to you, it sounds terrible.
[QUOTE]The ostensible goal of the policy is to “protect” students from other students’ suicidal thoughts and actions.[/QUOTE] What the fuck? Do they believe suicidal thoughts are contagious or something?
This sounds like a cover their ass move.
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