[QUOTE]
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LEELANAU COUNTY, MI -- Tom Auch described exploring the huge cave-like formations that have sprung up along the west side of the Leelanau Peninsula as a "once in a lifetime" experience.
He may be right.
Some of the formations, up to 30 feet high, have created sprawling cavities seven miles north of Leland, in Lake Michigan.
Auch photographed the formations Tuesday with friend George Meredith. The Traverse City men believe these are some of the largest ice caves to ever appear on Lake Michigan in that area.
The formations are caused by wind and wave action that pushed ice on top of existing ice.
Meridith made a video (below).
Meredith described the formations, some with differing hues of blue, as both impressive and spectacular. He and Auch named some of them because of their shapes, including "angel wings" and "ice faces."
[B]Getting to the formations is no easy task, he warned. Observers need to be careful about jagged terrain and ice alterations that could be dangerous. He suggested that some type of walking cleats are needed.[/B]
[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2014/02/cold_and_lake_michigans_power.html[/url]
[video=youtube;10-0Tk3rAkk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10-0Tk3rAkk[/video]
Okay the title is a little sensationalist, but Lake Michigan has these crazy cool once in a lifetime 'ice caves' all over. I know I made a thread about ice caves in a different area, but that was literally caves filled with ice. This is forming where there would be open water, from massive piles of snow and ice. Exploring these are so cool, from personal experience this only happens about once a decade if not longer. The last time I remember these ice caves was about 2001 and somewhere in my attic is a home VHS tape of me and my family exploring them.
God damn that music. Makes the video seem 20 years old.
They went out of there way to make this video as 90s as possible holy christ.
I've always wanted to see the ce C ves of Michigan...
The beaches in Chicago have been frozen over for weeks now, kinda surreal looking out from my bus at what is basically a frozen wasteland.
I love living ten minutes away from the lakefront. There was this time last winter, when the bottom half of a nineteenth century schooner washed up onto the beach and got coated in ice. That was insane.
The music in that video makes me feel like I'm watching an low-budget 80's porno.
the ice caves are actually time portals that take people from 1995 to 2014
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;43913509]I love living ten minutes away from the lakefront. There was this time last winter, when the bottom half of a nineteenth century schooner washed up onto the beach and got coated in ice. That was insane.[/QUOTE]
any pictures?
[QUOTE=Political Gamer;43913453]The beaches in Chicago have been frozen over for weeks now, kinda surreal looking out from my bus at what is basically a frozen wasteland.[/QUOTE]
Impossible; global warming is making winters non existent. You'll see, I mean I know we have had some of the most snow and coldest winters on record the past few years but it's still coming.
[QUOTE=mc lovin;43914043]Impossible; global warming is making winters non existent. You'll see, I mean I know we have had some of the most snow and coldest winters on record the past few years but it's still coming.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit fuck off
[QUOTE=mc lovin;43914043]Impossible; global warming is making winters non existent. You'll see, I mean I know we have had some of the most snow and coldest winters on record the past few years but it's still coming.[/QUOTE]
thats why its called climate change. its happened, and people like you let it go on.
maybe they were frozen in the 90s and the ice caves are just the holes they've come out of
[QUOTE=Mike Tyson;43914499]thats why its called climate change. its happened, and people like you let it go on.[/QUOTE]
or maybe it's just a natural event? Jesus christ not everything is solely due to climate change, there's a chance for a temporary spontaneous event to happen on earth caused by numerous factors which all fall into place. A slow rise in mean temperature is attributed to climate change, however.
[QUOTE=mc lovin;43914043]Impossible; global warming is making winters non existent. You'll see, I mean I know we have had some of the most snow and coldest winters on record the past few years but it's still coming.[/QUOTE]
Warming oceans at the poles caused the collapse of the polar vortex. Rest of the planet having record heat. It's called global warming for a reason. Not Chicago Warming or east coast warming. The planet is still warming. This is a fact.
[QUOTE=FlamingBlizza;43914388]Holy shit fuck off[/QUOTE]
What Sorry I've been paying attention to the news going on about global warming! It's a serious threat I mean sure things are cold and we are having mild summers. I just don't want people to forget the serious threat!
[QUOTE=Tasm;43914608]or maybe it's just a natural event? Jesus christ not everything is solely due to climate change, there's a chance for a temporary spontaneous event to happen on earth caused by numerous factors which all fall into place. A slow rise in mean temperature is attributed to climate change, however.[/QUOTE]
You expect me to believe the planet has natural warming and cooling cycles based off things like the sun, and how the planet goes throught evolutionary cycles causing a constant inbalance of gasses in the atmosphere? Pfft Humans are to blame!
[QUOTE=OvB;43914887]Warming oceans at the poles caused the collapse of the polar vortex. Rest of the planet having record heat. It's called global warming for a reason. Not Chicago Warming or east coast warming. The planet is still warming. This is a fact.[/QUOTE]
So is that why global warming is hitting a 6 year high on people doubting it? Other than being a nartual cause of how the earth and sun co-exist?
[url]http://www.dailytech.com/Global+Warming+Denial+Hits+a+6+Year+High+Study+Cries/article34167.htm[/url]
The proper term is climate change humans ahave very little affect into it as proven for a very very long time.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("idiot" - MaxOfS2D))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=mc lovin;43916137]What Sorry I've been paying attention to the news going on about global warming! It's a serious threat I mean sure things are cold and we are having mild summers. I just don't want people to forget the serious threat!
You expect me to believe the planet has natural warming and cooling cycles based off things like the sun, and how the planet goes throught evolutionary cycles causing a constant inbalance of gasses in the atmosphere? Pfft Humans are to blame!
So is that why global warming is hitting a 6 year high on people doubting it? Other than being a nartual cause of how the earth and sun co-exist?
[url]http://www.dailytech.com/Global+Warming+Denial+Hits+a+6+Year+High+Study+Cries/article34167.htm[/url]
The proper term is climate change humans ahave very little affect into it as proven for a very very long time.[/QUOTE]
The sun has very little to do with climate change. Denial comes from people like who you think a cold day means warming is not happening.
[editline]14th February 2014[/editline]
Read this article:
[url]http://www.southernfriedscience.com/?p=16477[/url]
[editline]14th February 2014[/editline]
[quote]Unfortunately for the climate change denial industry, Polar Vortices are well-understood atmospheric phenomena. [URL="http://books.google.com/books?id=Df4vAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA430&dq=%22polar+vortex%22#v=onepage&q=%22polar%20vortex%22&f=false"]They were documented as early as 1853[/URL] as currents of cold air that essentially circle the poles. [B][I]High-altitude observations in the 1950′s revealed the [URL="http://gmao.gsfc.nasa.gov/researchhighlights/SSW/"]occurrence of sudden stratospheric warming (SSW) in the Arctic Polar Vortex.[/URL] These SSW’s can cause a the vortex to weaken or reverse directions, allowing it to drift off axis or split into several smaller vortices. When weakened vortices contact the jet stream, cold arctic air is forced south, resulting in anomalously cold temperatures.[/I][/B][/quote]
[I]It's cold because its warm.[/I]
[editline]14th February 2014[/editline]
I mean theres a handful of northern cities that had really hot winters this year because the south literally [I]stole[/I] their cold. My brother lives up in Fairbanks, Alaska and it was hotter there most this summer than here in [I]South Texas.[/I] I don't think it snowed at all in Norway in December, either.
[editline]14th February 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Tasm;43914608]or maybe it's just a natural event? Jesus christ not everything is solely due to climate change, there's a chance for a temporary spontaneous event to happen on earth caused by numerous factors which all fall into place. A slow rise in mean temperature is attributed to climate change, however.[/QUOTE]
There are two types of climate change. Natural climate change and anthropogenic climate change. natural climate change is the natural change in climate over thousands of years. Anthropogenic climate change examines the possible effects humanity can have on the climate.
Global warming is a climate change event where the planet is gradually warming up over the course of a few centuries. Global cooling is the opposite and has never really been taken seriously by real scientists despite what a single Time Magazine article said like 40 years ago which many climate denialists like to use as irrefutable proof that [I]"scientists can't make up their mind!"[/I]
[editline]14th February 2014[/editline]
I can't edit my artcle without it deleting itself so heres a source to the Sun not having anything to do with climate: [url]http://www.skepticalscience.com/acrim-pmod-sun-getting-hotter.htm[/url]
This is the shit I get for living in this state.
I think god hates everyone in this state. Seriously. That or Mother Nature does.
[QUOTE=mc lovin;43914043]Impossible; global warming is making winters non existent. You'll see, I mean I know we have had some of the most snow and coldest winters on record the past few years but it's still coming.[/QUOTE]
I thought this was satire, until I realize it was you posting again. Tell your parents they need to ground you from the computer so you can focus on your school work, because you're clearly failing something if you're this stupid.
[QUOTE=OvB;43918286]
I mean theres a handful of northern cities that had really hot winters this year because the south literally [I]stole[/I] their cold. My brother lives up in Fairbanks, Alaska and it was hotter there most this summer than here in [I]South Texas.[/I] I don't think it snowed at all in Norway in December, either.
[/QUOTE]
Few cold days? we've had a few cooler than average years... But that may mess up predictions from what is actually happening
[QUOTE=draugur;43918691]I thought this was satire, until I realize it was you posting again. Tell your parents they need to ground you from the computer so you can focus on your school work, because you're clearly failing something if you're this stupid.[/QUOTE]
haven't lived with my parents since 18 years old but I fail to see what that has to do with the topic when in the 70's they were declaring the next ice age and 40 years later "OH NO IT'S A GLOBAL WARMING!"
[QUOTE=Falubii;43913026]God damn that music. Makes the video seem 20 years old.[/QUOTE]
Reminds me of this
[video=youtube;gi1V7gXyVeo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi1V7gXyVeo[/video]
[QUOTE=mc lovin;43918726]Few cold days? [B]we've had a few cooler than average years[/B]... But that may mess up predictions from what is actually happening
haven't lived with my parents since 18 years old but I fail to see what that has to do with the topic when in the 70's they were declaring the next ice age and 40 years later "OH NO IT'S A GLOBAL WARMING!"[/QUOTE]
And where would that be exactly?
Scienctists never said we were having an ice age in the 70's.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU_AtHkB4Ms[/media]
Give me some facts. Give me some evidence for your claims.
[url]http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2013/06/04/the-1970s-ice-age-myth-and-time-magazine-covers-by-david-kirtley/[/url]
[url]http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/05/21/the-1970s-ice-age-scare/[/url]
[url]http://www.populartechnology.net/2013/02/the-1970s-global-cooling-alarmism.html[/url]
[url]http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11643-climate-myths-they-predicted-global-cooling-in-the-1970s.html#.Uv8Kb_ldVw4[/url]
[url]http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/coleman.asp[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v4Q9Wv10Ho#t=246[/url]
Need I continue?
Oh right I should totally feel bad about things out of my control!
[QUOTE=mc lovin;43918806][url]http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2013/06/04/the-1970s-ice-age-myth-and-time-magazine-covers-by-david-kirtley/[/url]
[url]http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/05/21/the-1970s-ice-age-scare/[/url]
[url]http://www.populartechnology.net/2013/02/the-1970s-global-cooling-alarmism.html[/url]
[url]http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11643-climate-myths-they-predicted-global-cooling-in-the-1970s.html#.Uv8Kb_ldVw4[/url]
[url]http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/coleman.asp[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v4Q9Wv10Ho#t=246[/url]
Need I continue?
Oh right I should totally feel bad about things out of my control![/QUOTE]
you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer are you
[QUOTE=isoulcalibur;43919015]you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer are you[/QUOTE]
Not the most luminescent apparatus on the festive arboreal display.
How to accept anthropogenic climate change in three easy steps:
1. [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_Earth's_atmosphere"]Realize that humans are releasing unheard of levels of Carbon Dioxide into the atmosphere.[/URL]
2. Realize that Carbon Dioxide causes the[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect"] greenhouse effect[/URL], which changes the climate.
3.The logical conclusion is that large amounts of CO2 in the atmosphere, in this case being released by Humans, will lead to a change in the climate of the Earth.
This might be a long post bear with me. Did you even read these articles?
[QUOTE=mc lovin;43918806][url]http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2013/06/04/the-1970s-ice-age-myth-and-time-magazine-covers-by-david-kirtley/[/url]
[quote]The realization that very long cycles in earth’s orbit could cause the waxing and waning of ice ages, coupled with the fact that our soot and aerosols were already causing cooling, led some scientists to conclude that we may be headed for another ice age. Exactly when was still a little unclear.[B] However, the warming effects of CO2 had been known for over a century, and new research in the 1970s was showing that CO2 warming would more than compensate for the cooling caused by aerosols, resulting in net warming.[/B]
This, in a very brief nutshell, was the state of climate science in the 1970s. And so the media of the time published many stories about a coming ice age, which made for timely reading during some very cold winters. [B]But many news stories also mentioned that other important detail about CO2: that our climate might soon change due to global warming.[/B] In 1976 Time published “The World’s Climate: Unpredictable” which is a very good summary of the then current scientific thinking: some scientists emphasized aerosols and cooling, some scientists emphasized CO2 and warming. There was no consensus either way. The realization that very long cycles in earth’s orbit could cause the waxing and waning of ice ages, coupled with the fact that our soot and aerosols were already causing cooling, led some scientists to conclude that we may be headed for another ice age. Exactly when was still a little unclear. However, the warming effects of CO2 had been known for over a century, and new research in the 1970s was showing that CO2 warming would more than compensate for the cooling caused by aerosols, resulting in net warming.
This, in a very brief nutshell, was the state of climate science in the 1970s. And so the media of the time published many stories about a coming ice age, which made for timely reading during some very cold winters. But many news stories also mentioned that other important detail about CO2: that our climate might soon change due to global warming. In 1976 Time published “The World’s Climate: Unpredictable” which is a very good summary of the then current scientific thinking: some scientists emphasized aerosols and cooling, some scientists emphasized CO2 and warming. There was no consensus either way. Many other 1970s articles which mention a Coming Ice Age also mention the possibility of increased warming due to CO2. For instance, here, here and here.[/quote]
[url]http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/05/21/the-1970s-ice-age-scare/[/url]
[url]http://www.populartechnology.net/2013/02/the-1970s-global-cooling-alarmism.html[/url]
[url]http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11643-climate-myths-they-predicted-global-cooling-in-the-1970s.html#.Uv8Kb_ldVw4[/url]
[quote]However, Schneider soon realised he had overestimated the cooling effect of aerosol pollution and underestimated the effect of CO2, meaning warming was more likely than cooling in the long run.
Update: A survey of the scientific literature has found that between 1965 and 1979, 44 scientific papers predicted warming, 20 were neutral and just 7 predicted cooling. So while predictions of cooling got more media attention, the majority of scientists were predicting warming even then.[/quote]
[url]http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/coleman.asp[/url]
[quote][B]Rebuttal to Mr. Coleman:[/b] [url]http://uscentrist.org/platform/positions/environment/context-environment/john_coleman/the-amazing-story-behind-the-global-warming-scam[/url][/quote]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v4Q9Wv10Ho#t=246[/url]
[quote][B]see above[/B][/quote]
Need I continue?
Oh right I should totally feel bad about things out of my control![/QUOTE]
Didn't quote the two blogs because they were just a collection of news paper clippings and other news stories about possible cooling trends. Some of which said would take thousands of years. Some said the end of the decade would be colder.
You can find more about the cooling myth [URL="http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2008/10/global-cooling-was-a-myth.html"]here[/URL], along with a scientific article on the number of articles about cooling vs. warming during the 60's-70's. (this was actually a link in one of the articles you linked so thanks for that.)
Instead of looking at the past, why don't we look at the present state of things. Things such as the ever receding [URL="http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph/"]sea ice extent[/URL], or the ever [URL="http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/indicators/oceans/sea-surface-temp.html"]warming ocean temperatures[/URL], or the ever increasing [URL="http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Acidification"]acidity of the ocean due to CO2[/URL], or the [URL="https://nsidc.org/glims/glaciermelt/"]melting of glaciers[/URL]?
[editline]15th February 2014[/editline]
Oh he got banned. There goes an hour I'll never see again.
[QUOTE=OvB;43919128]This might be a long post bear with me. Did you even read these articles?
Didn't quote the two blogs because they were just a collection of news paper clippings and other news stories about possible cooling trends. Some of which said would take thousands of years. Some said the end of the decade would be colder.
You can find more about the cooling myth [URL="http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2008/10/global-cooling-was-a-myth.html"]here[/URL], along with a scientific article on the number of articles about cooling vs. warming during the 60's-70's. (this was actually a link in one of the articles you linked so thanks for that.)
Instead of looking at the past, why don't we look at the present state of things. Things such as the ever receding [URL="http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph/"]sea ice extent[/URL], or the ever [URL="http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/indicators/oceans/sea-surface-temp.html"]warming ocean temperatures[/URL], or the ever increasing [URL="http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Acidification"]acidity of the ocean due to CO2[/URL], or the [URL="https://nsidc.org/glims/glaciermelt/"]melting of glaciers[/URL]?
[editline]15th February 2014[/editline]
Oh he got banned. There goes an hour I'll never see again.[/QUOTE]
You still did a great service. Even if you don't change his mind, at least there's hope other people who read the thread might not fall for his bullshit if they run into your posts.
This is one of the reasons why you're my favorite poster, OvB
I remember reading an article earlier today about how ice coverage on the Great Lakes is the highest its been since 1994. Something like 88% of the surface is frozen over, to the point that cities on the lakes are seeing snow levels drop due to the reduced water surface.
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