• With echoes of Wounded Knee, tribes mount prairie occupation to block North Dakota pipeline
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[url]https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-sej-north-dakota-pipeline-20160827-story,amp.html[/url] [QUOTE]Now, Native Americans are living here again. They sleep in teepees and nylon tents. They ride horses and drive quad cabs. They string banners between trees and, when they can get a signal, they post messages with hashtags such as #ReZpectOurWater, #NoDakotaAccess and #NODAPL. For weeks, they have been arriving from the scattered patches of the United States where the government put their ancestors to protest what they say is one indignity too many in a history that has included extermination and exploitation. It is called the Dakota Access oil pipeline and it could carry more than 400,000 barrels of crude oil a day from the Bakken region of western North Dakota across South Dakota and Iowa to connect with an existing pipeline in Illinois[/QUOTE] Big differences from Oregon standoff, they don't have guns, they're protesting the break of the promises of the government not to infringe on their land, they're doing it peacefully and are not occupying a federal office space. Conservative groups have been quick to demonize their actions as against the United states because oil pipelines are "safe" and they face "no repercussions" with their water/land.
For what it's worth I couldn't blame them even if they were violent about it, Native Americans have been constantly shit on and have endured countless broken promises.
[QUOTE=GordonZombie;50964641]For what it's worth I couldn't blame them even if they were violent about it, Native Americans have been constantly shit on and have endured countless broken promises.[/QUOTE] The only thing that will result in is people getting shot. If the natives want to win this they'll have to appeal to a court and have them rule in their favor.
August 17, 2017. 10:32AM. The Great Ghost Dance. That said, I respect their determination. I don't think they can come ahead on this, but it's important to get people seeing and talking to make sure things are done properly.
[QUOTE=Worstcase;50964720]The only thing that will result in is people getting shot. If the natives want to win this they'll have to appeal to a court and have them rule in their favor.[/QUOTE] And if the court doesn't rule in their favor, then what? The alternative outcome must always be considered, as must alternative solutions/responses.
[QUOTE=Worstcase;50964720]The only thing that will result in is people getting shot. If the natives want to win this they'll have to appeal to a court [U]and have them rule in their favor.[/U][/QUOTE] Haha good luck with that, considering Navajo Nation sued Urban Outfitters for marketing indian-themed clothing under the Navajo name. The judge declared that "Navajo" is a generic term and subject to free use by anyone. We never stopped fucking over the natives.
Every time I visit a Native American reservation I lose more and more respect for them. It's just sad. They are made up of a bunch of people living off government money in poverty, squeezing every cent off tourists that they can, and doing absolutely nothing to actually better the lives of the people who live there. The whole 'Native American pride' thing is just a big charade to get more money out of visitors. At this point it would be better to just get rid of the reservations and force the tribes to integrate into normal society. As a side note, I recently spoke to a man who ran a DNA testing facility. He was telling me how one of their most commonly requested tests were for people trying to prove that they had some native american blood in order to get money and scholarships.
[QUOTE=sgman91;50964950]Every time I visit a Native American reservation I lose more and more respect for them. It's just sad. They are made up of a bunch of people living off government money in poverty[/QUOTE] We destroyed their culture and their pride and boxed them into impoverished reservations, and you're going to complain that they're poor? [QUOTE=sgman91;50964950]squeezing every cent off tourists that they can.[/quote] Isn't that The American Way™? Or is it only okay when rich people do it?
[QUOTE=sgman91;50964950]He was telling me how one of their most commonly requested tests were for people trying to prove that they had some native american blood in order to get money and scholarships.[/QUOTE] Who wouldn't if they had a tiny bit of native American blood in them? [QUOTE=sgman91;50964950]They are made up of a bunch of people living off government money in poverty, squeezing every cent off tourists that they can, and doing absolutely nothing to actually better the lives of the people who live there.[/QUOTE] I doubt the reservations are good economic centers anyway.
[QUOTE=sgman91;50964950]Every time I visit a Native American reservation I lose more and more respect for them. It's just sad. They are made up of a bunch of people living off government money in poverty, squeezing every cent off tourists that they can, and doing absolutely nothing to actually better the lives of the people who live there. The whole 'Native American pride' thing is just a big charade to get more money out of visitors. At this point it would be better to just get rid of the reservations and force the tribes to integrate into normal society. As a side note, I recently spoke to a man who ran a DNA testing facility. He was telling me how one of their most commonly requested tests were for people trying to prove that they had some native american blood in order to get money and scholarships.[/QUOTE] Doesnt help that we fucked them up completely.
[QUOTE=Deathtrooper2;50964986]Doesnt help that we fucked them up completely.[/QUOTE] Every group of people has been "fucked up" in history. That's not an excuse to stagnate as leaches on the greater society (There's really no other way to put it. The vast majority of the native american tribes provide nothing to our society beyond being a money sink.). [editline]28th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;50964961]We destroyed their culture and their pride and boxed them into impoverished reservations, and you're going to complain that they're poor?[/QUOTE] They're poor because alcoholism and drug addiction runs rampant, the tribal leaders make it all but impossible to run a business on their land, and everyone who actually gets an education wants to leave. One of my good friends grew up on a reservation, but about the age of 13 his grandmother got custody and took him off of it into her home. He still, to this day, says that it may have saved his life. All his brothers who continued living on the reservation are drug addicts with no jobs and no hope for the future.
[QUOTE=Deathtrooper2;50964986]Doesnt help that we fucked them up completely.[/QUOTE] There is no "we" in this debate. It was a bunch of dicks who did it in the past. I wasn't alive for it and you weren't either. Sometimes you need to move on and let go of a grudge, otherwise it'll eat you up from the inside and destroy you.
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[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50965089]Oh my fucking god are you this fucking dense. It's unbelievable, holy shit. Maybe, maybe, if you this can get your brain cells rubbing, maybe they're there because the US government [I]FORCED THEM ONTO THOSE RESERVATIONS[/I].[B] Leave a reservation? You lose all of your benefits and you are basically forced to be derilict.[/B] Holy goddamn I can't imagine what it's like to be that ignorant.[/QUOTE] How does anything you said change what I said? You've spelled out the problem very succinctly. In the name of helping the poor oppressed native americans we've doomed generations to an endless cycle of abject poverty and addiction.
Probably the only group in America that is actually as oppressed as most tout themselves as. More power to them, if they were promised certain things and the government is trying to go around (or through, I guess) then I hope they can do whatever necessary to make people realize that treating them like garbage is not okay.
[QUOTE=sgman91;50965092]How does anything you said change what I said?[/QUOTE] [quote]Every time I visit a Native American reservation I lose more and more respect for them[/quote] Go back to school
I think it's hard for people to understand how terrible reservations are as a result of the decisions made by the actual tribe if they haven't visited them.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;50964548][url]https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-sej-north-dakota-pipeline-20160827-story,amp.html[/url] Big differences from Oregon standoff, they don't have guns, they're protesting the break of the promises of the government not to infringe on their land, they're doing it peacefully and are not occupying a federal office space. Conservative groups have been quick to demonize their actions as against the United states because oil pipelines are "safe" and they face "no repercussions" with their water/land.[/QUOTE] If what Ive heard is correct, the pipeline isnt being built on their land. Its being built off there land but it goes over a river that flows through their land, so theyre paranoid about a oil spill on their water.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;50965103]No you don't! If you leave the reservation you're still native american, you still get native american scholorships, you still get native american preference when applying for a job, and if your tribe profitshares, you still get profit from the tribe. So what exactly are you loosing? Living with a bunch of drug addicts and drunks? Like I understand what you're trying to say, but i'm fucking SURROUNDED by reservations, and they're giant fucking shitholes. Save for a select few tribes, every other reservation is literally "the place i'd go if I wanted to buy meth"[/QUOTE] i have known several native people who have left the reservation and sworn off drinking because of the people they grew up around on the reservation. it is pretty depressing, they didn't want to leave because they loved their culture but they had to leave because they wanted a future.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50965089] Oh my fucking god are you this fucking dense. It's unbelievable, holy shit. Maybe, maybe, if you this can get your brain cells rubbing, maybe they're there because the US government FORCED THEM ONTO THOSE RESERVATIONS. Leave a reservation? You lose all of your benefits and you are basically forced to be derilict. Holy goddamn I can't imagine what it's like to be that ignorant[/quote] This is actually blatantly untrue. Natives can only get their free healthcare on reservations but they dont forfeit anything by moving off of them. They still get their scholarships and any other benefits and rights even if they move off the rez. Youre talking out of your ass bud. You have absolutely no clue what youre talking about. Yes, the US govt actively subjugated the Native population 100+ years ago, but theyve paid it back in full and then some. Theyve basically bought land from the reservations multiple times and gave it back for free, just for the sole purpose of trying to help the rez govts empty budgets. The reason the reservations are the way they are now is their own damn fault. If you spend any time on a reservation and get to know the people there, you can easily identify their issues. The people there just make no effort to solve them.
[QUOTE=Govna;50964857]And if the court doesn't rule in their favor, then what? The alternative outcome must always be considered, as must alternative solutions/responses.[/QUOTE] Violence is not a reasonable alternative in the event that the aforementioned court ruling fails. It'd only be counter-intuitive really by breeding a hostile mindset. [QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;50964938]Haha good luck with that, considering Navajo Nation sued Urban Outfitters for marketing indian-themed clothing under the Navajo name. The judge declared that "Navajo" is a generic term and subject to free use by anyone. We never stopped fucking over the natives.[/QUOTE] That's not much of a comparison. Trademark law and reservation laws aren't even remotely related.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50965100]Go back to school[/QUOTE] Have you ever visted a reservation, or know people who live on them?
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;50965195]This is actually blatantly untrue. Natives can only get their free healthcare on reservations but they dont forfeit anything by moving off of them. They still get their scholarships and any other benefits and rights even if they move off the rez. Youre talking out of your ass bud. You have absolutely no clue what youre talking about. Yes, the US govt actively subjugated the Native population 100+ years ago, but theyve paid it back in full and then some. Theyve basically bought land from the reservations multiple times and gave it back for free, just for the sole purpose of trying to help the rez govts empty budgets. The reason the reservations are the way they are now is their own damn fault. If you spend any time on a reservation and get to know the people there, you can easily identify their issues. The people there just make no effort to solve them.[/QUOTE] How close to a reservation do you live? i live in the next town over from two with casinos and etc. And i can confirm that if you move off the reservation you lose your benefits. they strip you of the income you make, they also take away your healthcare and try to move back and reapply for benefits and you'll see wait times of up to 10 years. You know why? the tribal councils want every bit of money going back into the tribe. All of these people speaking out against them getting government aid are the same people who look at a poor family and scoff saying, "They don't need foodstamps because they have a dad!"
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50965229]Whatever anecdote you have, poverty is actually a sticky thing. You just dont simply get out of it by working hard.[/QUOTE] You also don't get rid of it by segregating all the poor people together, let them be governed by incompetent and corrupt 'elders,' and subsidizing their insane levels of addiction. There are plenty of native americans who end up doing well in life. They just usually happen to be the ones who get out of the reservation.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;50965237]How close to a reservation do you live? i live in the next town over from two with casinos and etc. And i can confirm that if you move off the reservation you lose your benefits. they strip you of the income you make, they also take away your healthcare and try to move back and reapply for benefits and you'll see wait times of up to 10 years. You know why? the tribal councils want every bit of money going back into the tribe. All of these people speaking out against them getting government aid are the same people who look at a poor family and scoff saying, "They don't need foodstamps because they have a dad!"[/QUOTE] I live in Bismarck ND and I do pest control work on reservations 3 or 5 times a month. I could tell you some stories about thag. I have a few native friends who are ND residents who work and live in Bismarck. If they need any sort of non major medical care, theyll drive down to Fort Yates and go to one of the centers there. One just moved away to Oregon and is using a native scholarship at a college there. It may depend on the reservation but Ive never heard of anyone up here losing their reservation benefits because they moved.
Big fuckin' cash grab like they always do. 9 times out of 10 all they want is another handout to buy more booze. Pipeline safety and enviromental procautions are fucking ridiculous, at least in Alberta they are. Theres so much regulation and monitoring that you can barely take a piss in a bush next to a puddle without having some envriomentalist plug citing you up for polution or getting a spill kit out. If they manage to get the A-Okay to build across/under the river then it'll probably be a lot nicer than it was before. No litter, fish removed during the process, properly rip rapped, coating on the pipe, the whole shabang. I've heard stories from the veteran guys where when they do a job near a reserve if you dont chain everything down or stuff it in a truck (useless because they steal the trucks anyways) it'll be gone the next morning. They've hired people off a reserve before too, help get some money to the community, but when they get there they dont want to work. There was one case where they hired a local native, he showed up, shoveled for an hour, and then quit saying he was just going to go back on welfare. /end rant
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50965002]Yeah we fucked them up, but they should learn to get over it. It happened, we can't reverse history. Same thing with slavery. It's time to get over it. No one alive now is responsible for the past.[/QUOTE] But still, they deserve their own country separate from ours.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;50964938]Haha good luck with that, considering Navajo Nation sued Urban Outfitters for marketing indian-themed clothing under the Navajo name. The judge declared that "Navajo" is a generic term and subject to free use by anyone. We never stopped fucking over the natives.[/QUOTE] To be fair, that sounds like a bullshit lawsuit. Imagine if France sued beret manufacturers because they used the word "French" to market them.
If anyone has a right to try to defend the land, it's them [editline]29th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Pantz Master;50967738]To be fair, that sounds like a bullshit lawsuit. Imagine if France sued beret manufacturers because they used the word "French" to market them.[/QUOTE] More like a city
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;50965120]Considering they actively keep well educated tribal members off the councils, it's no fucking wonder they're shitholes.[/QUOTE] Why? Getting fucked by corruption is one thing, but disqualifying people specifically because they're educated? What are they trying to avoid?
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