• Ukrainian City of Donetsk is now proclaiming itself a separate republic and declaring referendum, fo
    45 replies, posted
[quote]Pro-Russian protesters who seized the regional government building in the Ukrainian city of Donetsk are reported to have declared a "people's republic". Footage online showed a Russian speaker telling the assembly: "I proclaim the creation of the sovereign state of the People's Republic of Donetsk." The rebels are reported to have called a referendum on forming a new republic. Interim President Oleksandr Turchynov called the unrest an attempt by Russia to "dismember" Ukraine. A Russian flag is seen through a broken window of the offices of the state security service in Luhansk on 7 April Protesters fly a Russian flag from the offices of the state security service in Luhansk He said it was "the second wave" of an operation by Russia to destabilise the country. Russia recently annexed Ukraine's Crimean peninsula after a referendum there which Ukraine did not see as valid. BBC Moscow correspondent Daniel Sandford says Donetsk differs from Crimea in that it has many Ukrainian speakers as well as a Russian-speaking majority. Opinion polls there have shown considerable support for a united Ukraine, he adds. ... Earlier on Monday, protesters seized state security buildings in both Donetsk and Luhansk. The weapons arsenal in the building in Luhansk was raided, police say. The protesters want a referendum to be held by 11 May. Protesters broke into Donetsk's regional government building - and another in Kharkiv, also in Ukraine's east - on Sunday. Ukrainian authorities say protesters have now left the building in Kharkiv. Ukrainian news agency Unian says gunmen also tried to storm a Donetsk TV building on Monday, but were deterred by police. ... Police have blocked roads into Luhansk and armed reinforcements are being sent to the restive cities. Officials said Ukrainian National Security and Defence Council Secretary Andriy Parubiy and Security Service chief Valentyn Nalyvaychenko have been sent to the city. She said they had "all the authority necessary to take action against separatism." President Turchynov has cancelled a visit to Lithuania to deal with the unfolding events. ... The latest developments come as Ukraine's defence ministry said a Russian soldier had killed a Ukrainian military officer still loyal to Kiev in eastern Crimea late on Sunday. Another Ukrainian officer present is reported to have been beaten and detained by Russian troops in Sunday's incident in the small town of Novofyodorovka. The circumstances of the incident are unclear. [/quote] [url=http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26919928]BBC[/url] [img]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/74077000/jpg/_74077941_8a584a46-0a55-48fa-ad1a-204466dc8d9f.jpg[/img] [img]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/74084000/jpg/_74084389_de0dd7c8-b5fd-4a4c-bb01-45f163a97ad4.jpg[/img] [img]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/74084000/jpg/_74084395_adf38118-34b6-48ed-b9ff-942f357ee9c5.jpg[/img] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Flag_of_Donetsk_Federative_Republic.jpg[/img]
10 years from now, the map of Eastern Europe is going to look like someone dropped a vase at this rate.
Next week troops carrying Russian weapons and wearing Russian uniforms without patches will appear in Donetsk.
If you love Russia so fucking much why don't you move to Russia then.
This is the weirdest fucking invasion I've ever seen.
If Russia tries to annex it, shit is going to get BAD.
"Totally Not Russians continue their movements to help the Russian Emp--I mean Federation"
[QUOTE=Squad1993;44477463]If Russia tries to annex it, shit is going to get BAD.[/QUOTE] Like shit wasn't bad enough already with them
it continues
At least they're protesting peacefully... [IMG]http://images.scribblelive.com/2014/4/7/f18ef65d-b4d5-418c-8794-f592e2a9f46a.jpg[/IMG] Well, fuck.
[QUOTE=Oscar Lima Echo;44477445]This is the weirdest fucking invasion I've ever seen.[/QUOTE] Taking over cities with protests "Flawless"
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;44477473]Like shit wasn't bad enough already with them[/QUOTE] Once was 1 time too many, indeed. However,I highly doubt that if Russia pulls the same shit the West will let it go this time.
[QUOTE=Squad1993;44477522]Once was 1 time too many, indeed. However,I highly doubt that if Russia pulls the same shit the West will let it go this time.[/QUOTE] Hate to state the obvious but.... Other then disapproving looks, mean letter, and an occasional economic sanction what can be done? You don't go to war against a country with nukes.
[QUOTE=H8Entitlement;44477534]Hate to state the obvious but.... Other then disapproving looks, mean letter, and an occasional economic sanction what can be done? You don't go to war against a country with nukes.[/QUOTE] The EU should be able to handle the effects of harsher economic sanctions although our economy hasn't fully recovered, so there's that. If you want to talk about nukes, you could always remember the war between India and Pakistan despite both countries having WMDs. Not that I think that there should be a war over Ukraine but accepting Ukraine into NATO without special requirements and actually sending troops near the Russian-Ukrainian border should be enough for now.
[QUOTE=Thompsonas;44477620]The EU should be able to handle the effects of harsher economic sanctions although our economy hasn't fully recovered, so there's that. If you want to talk about nukes, you could always remember [B]the war between India and Pakistan despite both countries having WMDs. [/B][/QUOTE] Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that before both countries had nuclear weapons?
[QUOTE=Mindtwistah;44478127]Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that before both countries had nuclear weapons?[/QUOTE] Assuming [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kargil_War#WMDs_and_the_nuclear_factor"]wikipedia[/URL] didn't lie about this.
There have been wars between nuclear powers before. And de facto conflicts, like during the Cuban Missile Crisis US and Soviet ships were face to face and the US was very close to invading Cuba and going directly against Soviets there. I'm not advocating war, but no side would want to see the nukes flying just over Ukraine. It would probably remain a conventional war isolated to Eastern Europe of Ukraine itself.
[QUOTE=Thompsonas;44478156]Assuming [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kargil_War#WMDs_and_the_nuclear_factor"]wikipedia[/URL] didn't lie about this.[/QUOTE] Ah, well it does say that the Kargil War wasn't as large-scale as the previous ones, and quickly de-escalated in part due to pressure by the international community fearing nuclear war. So in a sense it proves H8Entitlement's point.
[QUOTE=Oscar Lima Echo;44477445]This is the weirdest fucking invasion I've ever seen.[/QUOTE] It's pretty clever if you think about it, Putin's actually had to do very little except pass some legislation and deploy troops. He hasn't taken a single casualty and he's already seized a crucial part of the country and is now moving on others just by exaggerating popular support. Just wait until the unmarked totally legitimate armed-to-the-teeth "militias" start appearing like they did in Crimea.
[QUOTE=scurr;44478359]It's pretty clever if you think about it, Putin's actually had to do very little except pass some legislation and deploy troops. He hasn't taken a single casualty and he's already seized a crucial part of the country and is now moving on others just by exaggerating popular support. Just wait until the unmarked totally legitimate armed-to-the-teeth "militias" start appearing like they did in Crimea.[/QUOTE] How is Putin involved Do you have any evidence that this is all just a ploy Is it that far-fetched that a nation that has been predominantly [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_relations#Popular_opinion]pro-Russian for years[/url] (approval ratings reaching as high as 96%) to want to break apart from a new, unstable and suspiciously right-winged government?
[QUOTE=Melnek;44478924]How is Putin involved Do you have any evidence that this is all just a ploy Is it that far-fetched that a nation that has been predominantly [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_relations#Popular_opinion]pro-Russian for years[/url] (approval ratings reaching as high as 96%) to want to break apart from a new, unstable and suspiciously right-winged government?[/QUOTE] [B]YES.[/B] Especially because Ukrainians make a majority of the Donetsk Oblast, and the declaration was made by a committee of a little over 100 people. This is NOT Crimea.
[QUOTE=download;44477428]Next week troops carrying Russian weapons and wearing Russian uniforms without patches will appear in Donetsk.[/QUOTE] Clearly they have always been there, self defense troops! [editline]7th April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=uber.;44477438]If you love Russia so fucking much why don't you move to Russia then.[/QUOTE] I think thats kinda what they are doing, just on a larger scale.
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;44478997][B]YES.[/B] Especially because Ukrainians make a majority of the Donetsk Oblast, [/QUOTE] It's like you couldn't even be bothered to read a 3 sentence post. [QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;44478997]and the declaration was made by a committee of a little over 100 people. This is NOT Crimea.[/QUOTE] That's the entire point of a commitee. It is meant to represent a people. Of course it's only 100. And this: [img]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/74084000/jpg/_74084395_adf38118-34b6-48ed-b9ff-942f357ee9c5.jpg[/img] Proves that the committee is supported by the citizens of Donetsk. Are you implying every single citizen of the Donetsk oblast was secretly planted by Putin? [editline]7th April 2014[/editline] I'm glad you think my posts are amusing, and once again you provide no counter-arguments to any of the points made and instead just go "wow man its putin hes obviously behind all this x)".
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donesk]the city was founded by a welshman of all people lmao[/url]
[QUOTE=Melnek;44479346] That's the entire point of a commitee. It is meant to represent a people. Of course it's only 100.[/QUOTE] Um no, it's not. 100 pro-Russian individuals barricaded in a building and demanding secession for a region whose primary demographic is [I]Ukrainian[/I] is not acceptable. [quote][IMG]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/74084000/jpg/_74084395_adf38118-34b6-48ed-b9ff-942f357ee9c5.jpg[/IMG] Proves that the committee is supported by the citizens of Donetsk.[/quote] Congratulations, you showed an image of a protest happening in an oblast of over 4 million people, 2,744,100 of which are Ukranians. Do you see 4 million people in that picture? [quote]Are you implying every single citizen of the Donetsk oblast was secretly planted by Putin?[/quote] Are you implying every single citizen of Donetsk Oblast, or even a [I]majority[/I], support secession, let alone secession as early as a month? Nope. When did I say that I believe Putin is responsible for the protests?
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;44479625]Wasn't there a vote going on to return Donetsk to Britain :v:.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-26716281"]That was certainly a thing[/URL]. We had a whole thread about it.
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;44478997][B]YES.[/B] Especially because Ukrainians make a majority of the Donetsk Oblast, and the declaration was made by a committee of a little over 100 people. This is NOT Crimea.[/QUOTE] All of the people in the Euromaiden were not an accurate representation of Ukraine as a whole but yet it still dictated national affairs for all Ukrainians, this argument cannot be made exclusively against the pro-Russian protesters.
[QUOTE=Greg25kk;44479651]All of the people in the Euromaiden were not an accurate representation of Ukraine as a whole but yet it still dictated national affairs for all Ukrainians, this argument cannot be made exclusively against the pro-Russian protesters.[/QUOTE] And yet the majority, Russian-speaking Ukrainians in the east included, do [I]not[/I] want the Russians to send in "peacekeeping" forces, nor do they want to secede and join Russia. The majority want closer ties to the West. [url=http://www.iri.org/sites/default/files/2014%20April%205%20IRI%20Public%20Opinion%20Survey%20of%20Ukraine,%20March%2014-26,%202014.pdf]proof[/url] Those policies are in line with what the intern government is trying to do, therefore they have significantly more legitimacy than a hundred dudes who have to barricade themselves in a building to make any sort of declaration.
-snip, double post due to phone-
The Ukrainian Intelligence Service building is 100% separatist free now. There have been no casualties [url]http://ria.ru/world/20140407/1002930695.html#ixzz2yELYh3ED[/url]
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