• Shake-up at Democratic National Committee, Longtime Officials Ousted
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[URL]https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/shakeup-democratic-national-committee-longtime-officials-ousted-n812126[/URL] [QUOTE]WASHINGTON — A shake-up is underway at the Democratic National Committee as several key longtime officials have lost their posts, exposing a still-raw rift in the party and igniting anger among those in its progressive wing who see retaliation for their opposition to DNC Chairman Tom Perez. The ousters come ahead of the DNC's first meeting, in Las Vegas, Nevada, since Perez took over as chairman with a pledge earlier this year that he would unite the party that had become badly divided during the brutal Bernie Sanders-Hillary Clinton 2016 primary. Complaints began immediately after party officials saw a list of Perez' appointments to DNC committees and his roster of 75 "at-large" members, who are chosen by the chair. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE] The removal and demotion of a handful of veteran operatives stood out, as did what critics charge is the over-representation of Clinton-backed members on the Rules and Bylaws Committee, which helps set the terms for the party's presidential primary, though other Sanders and Ellison backers remain represented. Those who have been pushed out include: •Ray Buckley, the New Hampshire Democratic chairman and longtime DNC official who ran against Perez for chair before backing Rep. Keith Ellison, D-Minn., lost his spots on the Executive Committee and DNC Rules Committee; •James Zogby, the president of the Arab American Institute and prominent Sanders backer, is no longer co-chair of the Resolutions Committee and is off the Executive Committee, a spot he has held since 2001; •Alice Germond, the party’s longtime former secretary and a vocal Ellison backer, who was removed from her at-large appointment to the DNC; and •Barbra Casbar Siperstein, the first transgender member of the DNC who supported Ellison and Buckley, was tossed from the Executive Committee. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]The DNC denied any retaliation, saying the changes were an effort to diversify and freshen the party’s leadership and that all the party’s officers had a chance to offer input. They touted new additions like Marisa Richmond, a millennial black transgender activist, and the first DREAMer member, Ellie Perez, to point to the DNC's efforts at diversity.[/QUOTE]
Seems like they're trying to kick out as many anti-perez/pro-bernie members as possible to wriggle out a more "unified" party. Say hello to Trump 2020 I guess
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52796238]Seems like they're trying to kick out as many anti-perez/pro-bernie members as possible to wriggle out a more "unified" party. Say hello to Trump 2020 I guess[/QUOTE] I'm more worried about the 2018 congressional race. The immediate unity of the Democratic Party is pretty crucial if we hope to see the current administration neutered.
So they're trying as hard as they can to be the unelectable corporate shill party. I hope the republicans enjoy their supermajority in 2018.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;52796262]If the dems don't effectively start shunning identity politics and start embracing the "why should the blue collar vote for us", then they're going to stay out of power. If they run another campaign like they did in 2016, they're going to continue losing base and clout. Hell I could have run against hillary and won, that's how piss poor of a performance she had.[/QUOTE] A mentally retarded ape could have won against Clinton... Oh wait.
I'm concerned this and other reports show signs that party disunity is worsening, not slowing down or stopping. I fear in the near or far future a catastrophic event will cause democrats and republicans to split into different parties.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;52796262]If the dems don't effectively start shunning identity politics and start embracing the "why should the blue collar vote for us", then they're going to stay out of power. If they run another campaign like they did in 2016, they're going to continue losing base and clout. Hell I could have run against hillary and won, that's how piss poor of a performance she had.[/QUOTE] Identity politics have nothing to do with it. Stop throwing minorities under the bus. You dont have to completely abandon the people you spend years standing up for in order ro appeal to blue collar voters. The issues is the Dems care the most about their corporate interests and dont understand that fucking nobody wants to vote for them.
I can't blame progressives in the DNC for opposing Perez and his ilk because of this behaviour. They don't seem to understand what's at stake - millions of people will suffer and the US will continue to cede influence to Russia, China and the EU unless they get their shit together, win in 2018 and impeach Trump immediately. Meanwhile, they purge some of their more successful members simply because they supported a different leader. It reminds me of Corbyn's crowd immediately after he won the leadership and all the way up to the 2017 election; thank Christ they got their house in order. Real life is not fucking Game of Thrones and real people are suffering and dying, American politics continues to be unbelievable.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;52796511]words[/QUOTE] Only with conservatives could it require explanation as to why they should treat everyone with respect and give everyone a more equitable healthy life.
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;52796563]Only with conservatives could it require explanation as to why they should treat everyone with respect and give everyone a more equitable healthy life.[/QUOTE] Good job proving his point
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;52796563]Only with conservatives could it require explanation as to why they should treat everyone with respect and give everyone a more equitable healthy life.[/QUOTE] I don't even know where to begin explaining how completely out of touch you are. You're certainly one of the people who are part of the problem and not part of the solution. [editline]20th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=ilikecorn;52796569]then you've got to tell the right why the left matters.[/QUOTE] It's not even about telling the right, but telling the people in the middle.
Alright have fun courting people who actually don't even believe in epistemology. I hope that giving ignorant idiots a chance at getting their ideas shredded might work but when the foundations of their understanding of the nature of knowledge are borked you could see why no one wants to try. We are almost better off waiting for education to progress and the old people to die.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;52796511]Maybe one should explain WHY (trans/LGBTQ/black/latino/etc etc etc) rights and issues actually matter, rather than screaming "why don't you support this, you're such a bigot". I'm not saying screw them over, i'm saying stop pulling the bullshit card of "support this or your a fascist racist sexist pig".[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ilikecorn;52796569]Do you want another trump? No? Then start talking. Less talking down on others, less "look at me with my education, i'm clearly superior".[/QUOTE] So, are these things the [I]Democratic Party[/I] has said, or are these things you've read on Tumblr/seen screencapped somewhere comedically/watched in Tudd's videos? Violently pushing identity politics is a talking point for radical liberals. The DNC, as mentioned in OP, is very elderly and corporatist cares much less about this than Fox News believes. Their problem was not focusing on blue-collar states won over in 2008 on the assumption they'd stay blue. If you're going to preach about ivory tower activists, find one and talk to him about it.
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;52796611]Alright have fun courting people who actually don't even believe in epistemology. I hope that giving ignorant idiots a chance at getting their ideas shredded might work but when the foundations of their understanding of the nature of knowledge are borked you could see why no one wants to try. We are almost better off waiting for education and the old people to die.[/QUOTE] you have to realize that most americans are fucking stupid. Like legitimately. A lot of people just don't know any better, have shit upbringings, etc, and just throwing them in the dirt constantly and yelling that them for this and that without actually explaining anything isn't going to make them want to change their minds. It's clear that it isn't working, you need to take different approaches instead of trying the same shit over and over again.
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;52796611]Alright have fun courting people who actually don't even believe in epistemology. I hope that giving ignorant idiots a chance at getting their ideas shredded might work but when the foundations of their understanding of the nature of knowledge are borked you could see why no one wants to try. We are almost better off waiting for education to progress and the old people to die.[/QUOTE] So you're option is to give up, plug your ears and hope for the best, and just build up walls and burn bridges rather than try to help people understand why things are important and why things have to change. People like you are why Trump has an [I]enormous[/I] power base in the US, because you just turn up your nose at them and walk away .
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;52796511] I'm not saying screw them over, i'm saying stop pulling the bullshit card of "support this or your a fascist racist sexist pig". Here's a perfect example: My mom and dad were completely against allowing trans people into bathrooms of their choosing. After I explained why it matters to trans people, and why denying them isn't actually going to stop them, they changed their tune, and now could care less. Why? Because someone took the time to explain WHY it would be important to those who are affected. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people who flat out dont get it. They don't understand why there's race problems because they live in a small town in podunk nowhere, and everyone's white there. They don't understand how gays have it so hard because they've never met a gay person in their lives. They don't understand trans people because no one has explained it to them. These are your blue collar voters, they're ignorant, and not for choice, but because they flat out don't know. One could use the excuse "but the internet", these guys barely have DSL, they use the internet for sports, or hunting info, or the occasional youtube video. They aren't going and looking at LGBQ rights because they flat out don't care, because no one has told them why it actually matters. [/QUOTE] Can confirm. Escaped that mindset due to prodding by my social studies teacher into seeking out how to defend political stances. He would often play devil's advocate and was well informed on both sides arguments. Later, when the internet became more of a thing and I got more into tech, I found a lot of better reasons to why issues are actually issues. You literally don't see certain problems in some localities. But I escaped that mindset because I had a teacher who gave a damn. Our education system is on average very bad, and plenty of people won't get that experience. They'll rely solely on their family or close friends to influence their politics because obviously they'd be right about an issue. Recent surveying has found a large conservative base still in younger voters(Because guess what, older people still influence younger people), so just "waiting for the old voters to die off" isn't a solution.
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;52796611]We are almost better off waiting for education to progress and the old people to die.[/QUOTE] So is education going to progress with the gop in power while all the people who want education reform are sitting around waiting?
[QUOTE=zakedodead;52796645]So is education going to progress with the gop in power while all the people who want education reform are sitting around waiting?[/QUOTE] Nope, and that should be evidence enough for the right that their party is shit and needs to move further to the left on the spectrum or at least start working to give stuff to their people :v:, but... Look, you guys are right, we should baby them and try and help them learn babby's first politics, but don't be surprised at how many people would rather scoff at them and have nothing to do with them.
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;52796649] Look, you guys are right, we should baby them and try and help them learn babby's first politics, but don't be surprised at how many people would rather scoff at them and have nothing to do with them.[/QUOTE] Why is your only course of action to act like a stuck up jerk? Do you really think that's going to fix issues? Where are you from, geographically? I have some inklings that it's a heavily urbanized area with 24/7 access to centers of education and learning (libraries, schools, colleges, etc.). Something that a large portion of the US does not have. You are literally the problem and the exact people that Trump and company love to make strawmen out of. If you're the representative of the left, then no wonder people vote right.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;52796659]Then those people shouldn't be surprised when they lose elections and cant pass policy.[/QUOTE] Us losing the election has nothing to do with not engaging conservatives, it has more to do with the electoral college (considering we didn't actually "lose" in the way relevant to a discussion on convincing individuals). AFAIK there are more liberals than conservatives anyway, so we really don't need them to win elections, but we can win with convincing moderates who no one would look down upon since they aren't too far gone. [editline]19th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52796666]Why is your only course of action to act like a stuck up jerk? Do you really think that's going to fix issues? Where are you from, geographically? I have some inklings that it's a heavily urbanized area with 24/7 access to centers of education and learning (libraries, schools, colleges, etc.). Something that a large portion of the US does not have. You are literally the problem and the exact people that Trump and company love to make strawmen out of. If you're the representative of the left, then no wonder people vote right.[/QUOTE] Are you offended or something? Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but that's just what happens when you have a shitty ideology V:v:V [editline]19th October 2017[/editline] If the news doesn't already convince conservatives that Trump is shit then I can assure you no discussion ever will. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Rude Shitpost" - Mezzokoko))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;52796669] Are you offended or something? Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but that's just what happens when you have a shitty ideology V:v:V[/QUOTE] You are proving my and corn's point more and more. I voted for Bernie in the primaries, Hillary in the general, and voted blue across the board for local and state elections. When the 2018 elections roll around, I will swallow the bitter pill and vote left, as Rauner has done little for Illinois other than auger us into the dirt economically+politically. What shitty ideology do I have, again?
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52796679]You are proving my and corn's point more and more. I voted for Bernie in the primaries, Hillary in the general, and voted blue across the board for local and state elections. When the 2018 elections roll around, I will swallow the bitter pill and vote left, as Rauner has done little for Illinois other than auger us into the dirt economically+politically. What shitty ideology do I have, again?[/QUOTE] I didn't say you have a shitty ideology, I'm asking why you're acting offended at my shit talking of the conservative ideology. You might be damn right that we should literally be as nice as possible to conservatives so we have a great chance in 2018, but to me it's embarrassing that being "nice" has anything to do with politics or ideology. Yet again, it is no surprise that conservatives get as much hate as they do.
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;52796688]I didn't say you have a shitty ideology[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Tetracycline;52796669] Are you offended or something? Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but that's just what happens when you have a shitty ideology V:v:V[/QUOTE] Really?
Look look, let's just draw this back. I don't think we have a real DISAGREEMENT. I just happen to talk about conservatives like they're absolutely stupid which is not conducive to actually changing anyone's ideology (which is correct), but who's ideology is here to change?
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;52796700]Look look, let's just draw this back. I don't think we have a real DISAGREEMENT. I just happen to talk about conservatives like they're absolutely stupid which is not conducive to actually changing anyone's ideology (which is correct), but who's ideology is here to change?[/QUOTE] So you're admitting to not wanting to actually change things but instead sling mud like a certain orange man. Okay.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52796695]Really?[/QUOTE] I think the confusion is where I said "that's just what happens when you have..." which implies that your "hurt feelings" are "what happens", but what I really intended was that my shit-talking of conservatives was "what happens"
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;52796688]I didn't say you have a shitty ideology, I'm asking why you're acting offended at my shit talking of the conservative ideology. You might be damn right that we should literally be as nice as possible to conservatives so we have a great chance in 2018, but to me it's embarrassing that being "nice" has anything to do with politics or ideology. Yet again, it is no surprise that conservatives get as much hate as they do.[/QUOTE] It's not "playing nice" it's called having a civil discussion and looking to have the country perform better than in previous administrations. That's how politics fucking works, not by sucking yourself off over how dumb you think the other side is.
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;52796700]Look look, let's just draw this back. I don't think we have a real DISAGREEMENT. I just happen to talk about conservatives like they're absolutely stupid which is not conducive to actually changing anyone's ideology (which is correct), but who's ideology is here to change?[/QUOTE] Look look, if you wanna just shit-talk and not actually debate or suggest change, just fucking own it. Don't put up this holier-than-thou horseshit about how you're so much better than them.
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;52796700]Look look, let's just draw this back. I don't think we have a real DISAGREEMENT. I just happen to talk about conservatives like they're absolutely stupid which is not conducive to actually changing anyone's ideology (which is correct), but who's ideology is here to change?[/QUOTE] Yours. Convincing you to stop recruiting for the republicans would be great. Because even on facepunch there are moderates and conservatives. And plenty of people who don't post on subjects. One in particular gets off on people like you reinforcing his victim complex. Your argument is coming from ignorance because you've only met the "bad" republicans. And that's assuming you met any offline. At the end of the day they're humans looking for a way to scrape by just like anyone else. And when they go online, instead of people discussing how to fix the problems in America, they see stupid shit like "Republicans are so dumb lol", decide there's no point in looking further because why would you. Teachers don't teach algebra by going "Hey guys, those of you who know algebra are pretty smart, anyone who doesn't know is a moron and they should feel bad about it."
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;52796727]Look look, if you wanna just shit-talk and not actually debate or suggest change, just fucking own it. Don't put up this holier-than-thou horseshit about how you're so much better than them.[/QUOTE] What are you even on about? You can definitely debate and suggest change all the while being insufferable. [editline]19th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Cliff2;52796740]Yours. Convincing you to stop recruiting for the republicans would be great. Because even on facepunch there are moderates and conservatives. And plenty of people who don't post on subjects. One in particular gets off on people like you reinforcing his victim complex. Your argument is coming from ignorance because you've only met the "bad" republicans. And that's assuming you met any offline. At the end of the day they're humans looking for a way to scrape by just like anyone else. And when they go online, instead of people discussing how to fix the problems in America, they see stupid shit like "Republicans are so dumb lol", decide there's no point in looking further because why would you. Teachers don't teach algebra by going "Hey guys, those of you who know algebra are pretty smart, anyone who doesn't know is a moron and they should feel bad about it."[/QUOTE] Hey you know, I guess you're right, I never really considered how absolutely malleable their positions are such that just being annoying can push them away from ideologies they may otherwise consider.
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