• Wyoming drops federal protection of gray wolves
    34 replies, posted
[URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19445436[/URL] [QUOTE][B]The US government will remove wolves from its endangered species list in Wyoming, allowing the state to shoot the animals on sight in most areas.[/B] The decision by US Fish and Wildlife Service comes after a 20-year programme to grow the wolf population. Environmental groups threatened legal action against the move. There were once almost two million gray wolves in North America, but they were nearly wiped out by fur traders and hunters in the 1930s. In the 1990s, 14 wolves from Canada quickly reproduced after they were released in Yellowstone National Park in north-west Wyoming. There are now thought to be about 270 wolves outside Yellowstone in the western US state. [B] 'Tragic ending' [/B] Under the new rules, Wyoming must maintain at least 10 breeding pairs of wolves and no fewer than 100 animals. But ranchers and farmers in Wyoming have long argued that wolves prey on their livestock and want to be able to control the population. Wyoming Governor Matt Mead said: "The wolf population in Wyoming is recovered, and it is appropriate that the responsibility for wolf management be returned to the state." Gray wolves will continue to be protected in some areas of the state. But Jamie Rappaport Clark, president of Defenders of Wildlife, called it "a tragic ending to what has otherwise been one of America's greatest wildlife conservation success stories". He added that his group would take legal action to ensure protections for wolves are reinstated. The director of the US Fish and Wildlife Service acknowledged there would be opposition to the decision. "You're going to hear, I think, a fair amount of rhetoric of unregulated killing and trapping and open seasons and free-fire zones," Dan Ashe said. Wolves in the Grand Teton and Yellowstone national parks, the John D Rockefeller Jr Memorial Parkway and the Wind River Indian Reservation will be protected from hunting. The new rules will come into effect on 30 September. There are about another 1,100 wolves in the states of Montana and Idaho, and still more in Washington and Oregon. [/QUOTE]
oh great
A couple thousand is not "recovered." While I think the endangered species act is bullshit in a few different ways, it DOES usually protect against abject stupidity like this.
Meanwhile the coyotes are the ones that are generally actually preying on the livestock and the farmers are just blaming wolves. Wolves can certainly take livestock, but the coyotes are the overwhelming majority of the culprits.
[QUOTE=GunFox;37498999]Meanwhile the coyotes are the ones that are generally actually preying on the livestock and the farmers are just blaming wolves. Wolves can certainly take livestock, but the coyotes are the overwhelming majority of the culprits.[/QUOTE] Especially since Coyotes weren't native when they were introduced into multiple states to control the deer population. Including New Jersey.
Should still be protected imo
Poor woofies.
[QUOTE=GunFox;37498999]Meanwhile the coyotes are the ones that are generally actually preying on the livestock and the farmers are just blaming wolves. Wolves can certainly take livestock, but the coyotes are the overwhelming majority of the culprits.[/QUOTE] Would that only be because of their higher population?
How is a couple of thousand recovered? A couple of thousand is a tiny population which could die out very quickly.
Yes, instead of investing in fencing off the areas my livestock dwell in, I'll just shoot whatever animal looks at my cows funny. The government should help farmers and such pay for proper fences tall and strong enough to keep out the wolves, instead of pay to enforce these rules. Or maybe that's just me as an ignorant Dutch person talking. Livestock areas here are fenced off and usually not /that/ huge, so it's easy to do.
why not instead of shoot anywhere, only shoot if on you're own property
[QUOTE=Fangz;37499465]Poor woofies.[/QUOTE] [img]http://facepunch.com/image.php?u=105654&dateline=1338062942[/img] In all seriousness though that is dumb.
[QUOTE=SweetSwifter;37510881]Yes, instead of investing in fencing off the areas my livestock dwell in, I'll just shoot whatever animal looks at my cows funny. The government should help farmers and such pay for proper fences tall and strong enough to keep out the wolves, instead of pay to enforce these rules. Or maybe that's just me as an ignorant Dutch person talking. Livestock areas here are fenced off and usually not /that/ huge, so it's easy to do.[/QUOTE] Because fencing is damned expensive. I think in order to fence off 80 acres, including cross fencing, it's cost close to $10,000. This includes T-posts and the various types of fencing. That's just ignoring repairs that's had to be done over the years. Even then, coyotes/dogs do get in by digging under the fencing.
[QUOTE=viperfan7;37511083]why not instead of shoot anywhere, only shoot if on you're own property[/QUOTE] Because this will still result in the killing of huge numbers of wolves. Farmers absolutely despise these wolves. If they see them put one goddamn paw over their little invisible line which the wolves don't have a clue about, they'll pull the trigger and put a few shotgun shells into them.
Man it is annoying listening to you guys saying "no my ~wolfs~ are going to die out wah" Wyoming is most likely watching this situation closely.
-snip-
surprised theres even wolves left. They were all wiped out on the UK and large parts of europe
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;37511190]Because this will still result in the killing of huge numbers of wolves. Farmers absolutely despise these wolves. If they see them put one goddamn paw over their little invisible line which the wolves don't have a clue about, they'll pull the trigger and put a few shotgun shells into them.[/QUOTE] but it also protects the wolfs that are no where near, unlike how it is now in which they can be killed anywhere, if only allowed to kill them on your own property, you make the farmers happy and still have a good deal of protection for the wolfs not saying that hunting an endangered species is just stupid
[QUOTE=viperfan7;37511460]but it also protects the wolfs that are no where near, unlike how it is now in which they can be killed anywhere, if only allowed to kill them on your own property, you make the farmers happy and still have a good deal of protection for the wolfs[/QUOTE] The big issue is that ranchers up in Wyoming and other northern states like that, tend to have fuck tons of land. I'm talking acreage into the thousands.
[QUOTE=SadisticGecko;37511488]The big issue is that ranchers up in Wyoming and other northern states like that, tend to have fuck tons of land. I'm talking acreage into the thousands.[/QUOTE] good point
[QUOTE=Fangz;37511309]No, using this as a way to invalidate symphony of the rehunting of an endangered species is dumb.[/QUOTE] Um I'm on your side..
[QUOTE=viperfan7;37511495]good point[/QUOTE] That's also part of the reason why the land isn't fenced off. It would simply be too expensive to do so.
God [B]fucking[/B] damnit, there are literally [I]no[/I] goddamn good reasons why wild wolves should be wiped out. Their damage on livestock is minimal, and reimbursed by the government. But they kill smaller predators that kill much more livestock, like coyotes. Wolves are beneficial for the ecosystem and are as good as never a danger to humans. Take it from Canada with its 50,000-60,000 wolf population, where you're still 600 times liklier to be killed by lightning there. They virtually only attack people when they are tame or have rabies, whereas the yellowjacket alone is much more deadly to Canadians. There is an old Inuit story; "Mother Earth first created the People and then realized she must provide food to sustain them. In her infinite wisdom, she reached into an ebony hole in the ice and pulled out the Tuktu (deer) to feed the Inuit people. Soon the tuktu had multiplied to such a level that food became scarce and over-population created a generation of sick and weak animals. Their decline threatened the very existence of the People. The great Mother once again reached into the black hole of ice and pulled out the amarok (the wolf) to whom the task fell to thin the overpopulated herds of the sick and weak thus ensuring a stronger generation so that the People might thrive. " [editline]2nd September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Gareth;37511430]surprised theres even wolves left. They were all wiped out on the UK and large parts of europe[/QUOTE] They are mostly in the Russian tundra, where I think there are still a good 80,000 left, IIRC. And another 60,000 in Canada. The US have had them as good as wiped out, before re-introducing them to places like Yellowstone and Wyoming. Europe other than Russia is as good as void. There are 15 wolves in Norway, up from 7, and another hundred in Sweden. However all this is relative to the fact that just 10,000 years ago they were the apex predator, and reigned in what is estimated as (plural) billions.
Why kill wolves there amlost extinct in most of europe.
The benefits of wolves [I]far[/I] outweigh the few and small drawbacks, and the removal of wolves comes down to misconceptions, myths and farmers who do not understand wolf etiquette. One farmer may loose as much as 20 sheep because he disposes the sheep corpse, leaving wolves with no choice other than finding a new kill. They piss on kills to preserve (and mark) the meat, then return to eat it later. There are many solutions farmers can do to further avoid wolves killing livestock, but compared to other predator's kills, they are less of a problem than human cattle thieves.
[QUOTE=mac338;37511547]God [B]fucking[/B] damnit, there are literally [I]no[/I] goddamn good reasons why wild wolves should be wiped out. Their damage on livestock is minimal, and reimbursed by the government. But they kill smaller predators that kill much more livestock, like coyotes. Wolves are beneficial for the ecosystem and are as good as never a danger to humans. Take it from Canada with its 50,000-60,000 wolf population, where you're still 600 times liklier to be killed by lightning. They virtually only attack people when they are tame or have rabies, whereas the yellowjacket alone is much more deadly to Canadians. There is an old Inuit story; "Mother Earth first created the People and then realized she must provide food to sustain them. In her infinite wisdom, she reached into an ebony hole in the ice and pulled out the Tuktu (deer) to feed the Inuit people. Soon the tuktu had multiplied to such a level that food became scarce and over-population created a generation of sick and weak animals. Their decline threatened the very existence of the People. The great Mother once again reached into the black hole of ice and pulled out the amarok (the wolf) to whom the task fell to thin the overpopulated herds of the sick and weak thus ensuring a stronger generation so that the People might thrive. " [editline]2nd September 2012[/editline] They are mostly in the Russian tundra, where I think there are still a good 80,000 left, IIRC. And another 60,000 in Canada. The US have had them as good as wiped out, before re-introducing them to places like Yellowstone and Wyoming. Europe other than Russia is as good as void. There are 15 wolves in Norway, up from 7, and another hundred in Sweden. However all this is relative to the fact that just 10,000 years ago they were the apex predator, and reigned in what is estimated as (plural) billions.[/QUOTE] The populations are slowly slowly getting nursed again though. I believe a few wolf pairs are in slovakia and they have sometimes been spotted over the border here int he CZ as well. Albeit it's very rare. Though in part it's due to the far higher human population density in Europe compared to the US.
[QUOTE=mac338;37511692]The benefits of wolves [I]far[/I] outweigh the few and small drawbacks, and the removal of wolves comes down to misconceptions, myths and farmers who do not understand wolf etiquette. One farmer may loose as much as 20 sheep because he disposes the sheep corpse, leaving wolves with no choice other than finding a new kill. They piss on kills to preserve (and mark) the meat, then return to eat it later. There are many solutions farmers can do to further avoid wolves killing livestock, but compared to other predator's kills, they are less of a problem than human cattle thieves.[/QUOTE] Except leaving the corpse draws in more predators. When you're talking about ranchers with small herds, even losing one can hurt the pocketbook, especially if the lost animal happens to be a prized breeding male. Good males are hard to find and can be irreplaceable.
Wolves live in the forest behind my house, you can sometimes hear them howling at night it freaks me out
[QUOTE=Zambies!;37511241]Wyoming is most likely watching this situation closely.[/QUOTE] You'd be surprised. I've been active in a lot of wolf-related campaigns and I've noticed that more often than not boils down to a question of money, and not much either. And this is often the decision of politicians who do not understand the benefits of wolves, but are more affected by the myths that have surrounded this creature.
Coyotes are awful, especially the ones around where I live, they're huge because they crossbred with wolves a long time ago Coyote attacks teenager in Cape Breton - Nova Scotia - CBC News Coyotes kill Toronto singer in Cape Breton - Nova Scotia - CBC News Campers rescued after coyotes surround campsite - Cape Breton Post [quote]After a spate of coyote attacks on humans in a Cape Breton national park, including the death of 19-year-old Taylor Mitchell in 2009, an American urban coyote expert was mystified. “In Nova Scotia the coyotes up there are breaking the rules,” Stanley Gehrt told the Star in 2010, noting that coyote attacks in North America are generally rare. Between April 2010 and March 2011, 104 reports of aggressive coyotes were investigated as part of the park’s coyote management program. [/quote] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Mitchell[/url] [img]http://thechronicleherald.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/ch_article_main_image/articles/tk042210nscoyote2.jpg[/img] shit is fucked
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.