• "Do American guns kill Mexicans?" -BBC
    19 replies, posted
[quote] As the grieving families in Newtown, Connecticut were holding funerals for their lost loved ones, Mexico's new Congress was tightening the country's gun laws. The two events were not related. It was not in response to the latest school shootings in the US that Mexican politicians moved to change the legislation. But the timing was certainly symbolic. Ironically for a country awash with hundreds of thousands of illegal firearms, Mexico has some of the most stringent gun laws in Latin America. Mexicans do have the right to own a registered gun in their home, but only the military, police and citizens with federal permits can carry arms outside the home. Obtaining that licence costs $150 (£93) and involves rigorous checks. Consequently, many ordinary Mexicans who want to carry a weapon simply buy on the black market. Since the Mexican government shut down the last private gun shop in the 1990s, there is just one legal gun store in the entire country, located in Mexico City and controlled by the military. [B]'Threat to society'[/B] This latest piece of legislation was aimed at stemming the flow of magazines for automatic weapons into the country by closing a longstanding legal loophole. Senator Arturo Zamora of the ruling PRI party introduced the measure to parliament saying: "The traffic of magazines for high-calibre weapons is in the hands of criminal organisations." "These magazines pose a threat to society. They are not being brought into country with the aim of protecting people but rather to be used in crimes such as extortion, kidnapping and murder." As the US grapples with the implications of the shootings in Newtown, there has been relatively little mention of the impact the country's lax gun laws have had on its southern neighbour. Last year a US Senate report, submitted by the Democratic senator leading the push for greater gun control, Dianne Feinstein, said as many as 70% of the guns in the hands of the Mexican drug cartels came from the US. Two years earlier, the number cited had been even higher, at about 90%. For the pro-gun lobby, however, the statistics were inaccurate and the report fundamentally flawed. The figure was based on some 30,000 guns confiscated by the Mexican authorities and submitted to the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for tracing. Critics of Senator Feinstein's report say there are tens of thousands of weapons which were not handed over for tracing and many more still in circulation in Mexico whose origins are unknown. "The single biggest supplier of firearms to the Mexican criminals is the US government through our sales to the military and the police," argues Robert Farago of the pro-gun online magazine The Truth about Guns. Those firearms are "fully-automatic assault rifles", says Mr Farago, which "then seep to the cartels. They also have weapons coming in from China and Eastern Europe." [B]Fast and Furious[/B] One particular episode involving US weapons in Mexico has created more tension between the two countries over the issue than any other. In a botched sting operation by the ATF called Fast and Furious, US authorities lost track of some 1,400 weapons they were hoping would to lead them to drug kingpins. Instead the guns simply ended up arming Mexican gangs, particularly the Sinaloa Cartel. "Fast and Furious" weapons have turned up in violent crime scenes across Mexico. Now a Republican Senator from Iowa, Charles Grassley, has called for an investigation into whether guns from the bungled operation were used in a shoot-out earlier this year in which a 20-year-old beauty queen, Maria Susana Flores Gomez, was killed. For pro-gun commentator Robert Farago, Fast and Furious is an example of where the problem lies. "The idea that US gun laws are in any way impacting the availability of firearms in Mexico is ridiculous," he says. "It's not United States' gun stores they need to worry about." Nevertheless, the 2011 Senate report concluded that the private sale of military-style weapons was "arming Mexico's drug trafficking organisations at an alarming rate", and called for the Assault Weapons Ban to be reinstated. Those calls have turned into urgent demands from some quarters in the wake of the massacre at Newtown. In Mexico, politicians and members of civil society have long made a link between US gun laws and the firepower of Mexico's cartels. Asked whether greater gun control north of the border would improve security in Mexican communities, PRI Senator Arturo Zamora was emphatic: "Definitely it would, yes. In June, the Defence Ministry stated that in the last six years, it confiscated more than 12 million cartridges of different calibres." Tighter US gun laws, he says, would immediately help to curb the illegal traffic of so many bullets and weapons into Mexico. Needless to say, US gun enthusiasts vehemently disagree. "It's absolutely laughable," says Robert Farago of the senator's argument. "If anything, Mexicans should be copying our gun laws and Second Amendment rights. What Mexicans need are more magazines, more guns, more bullets in the hands of law-abiding citizens." Most law-abiding Mexicans, however, believe more guns are the last thing the country needs. [/quote] [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-20825061]Source (BBC)[/url]
[QUOTE=scout1;38986078] PRI Senator Arturo Zamora was emphatic: "Definitely it would, yes. In June, the Defence Ministry stated that in the last six years, it confiscated more than [B]12 million cartridges[/B] of different calibres." [/QUOTE] thats... a lot of bullets, damn.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;38986236]thats... a lot of bullets, damn.[/QUOTE] Not really, considering how small most of them really are.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;38986243]Not really, considering how small most of them really are.[/QUOTE] what does size have to do with the number?
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;38986266]what does size have to do with the number?[/QUOTE] Sorry, that was kind of vague, let me restate that. Some rounds are very small, and can be held in massive amounts. Others are also in massive surplus, such as Russian or pistol ammo. And there can just be a large variety too.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;38986302]Sorry, that was kind of vague, let me restate that. Some rounds are very small, and can be held in massive amounts. Others are also in massive surplus, such as[B] Russian [/B]or pistol ammo. And there can just be a large variety too.[/QUOTE] Would not trust.
[QUOTE=areolop;38986345]Would not trust.[/QUOTE] Actually, it's the most common and the cheapest to buy. Surprisingly reliable, being that all of it was for military use and properly tested (both in-field and in-laboratory)
Goddamned Mexicans taking all of our honest, hard working American firearms and ammunition
"If anything, Mexicans should be copying our gun laws and Second Amendment rights. What Mexicans need are more magazines, more guns, more bullets in the hands of law-abiding citizens." Christ, I don't they realise how loony they sound to foreigners. It like goes against all logic, and lets be honest the US is not the role model you're looking for.
Because guns are the problem, as opposed to massive demand for illegal drugs.
[QUOTE=Hunt3r.j2;38986769]Because guns are the problem, as opposed to massive demand for illegal drugs.[/QUOTE] That view is just as ignorant as the first. There's not one big fucking [b]problem[/b] that you can just fix with legislation to save Mexico. It's a freakin' clusterfuck of issues right now. And you can't deny that US guns are not another issue. The US is the biggest exporter of weapons now.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;38986367]Actually, it's the most common and the cheapest to buy. Surprisingly reliable, being that all of it was for military use and properly tested (both in-field and in-laboratory)[/QUOTE] It's most other things from Russia you need to watch out for.
[QUOTE=MuTAnT;38986969]That view is just as ignorant as the first. There's not one big fucking [b]problem[/b] that you can just fix with legislation to save Mexico. It's a freakin' clusterfuck of issues right now. And you can't deny that US guns are not another issue. The US is the biggest exporter of weapons now.[/QUOTE] Sure, but guns only flow because of money, and it's money that the drug trade creates, among other things.
[QUOTE=areolop;38986345]Would not trust.[/QUOTE] russian ammo is some of the most reliable out there. I'd take some Soviet surplus over any Winchester or Remington-made ammo any day of the week. [editline]27th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=MuTAnT;38986969]That view is just as ignorant as the first. There's not one big fucking [b]problem[/b] that you can just fix with legislation to save Mexico. It's a freakin' clusterfuck of issues right now. And you can't deny that US guns are not another issue. The US is the biggest exporter of weapons now.[/QUOTE] Russia is currently the biggest exporter, there's no official data for this year or last year for the US
American drug laws are what kills Mexicans. The Drug cartels own most of Mexico, especially Northern Mexico, and exist mostly because of the drug laws in America which create a very strong black market. These cartels are ruthless. The weapons aren't the root cause.
[QUOTE=Valnar;38987463]American drug laws are what kills Mexicans. The Drug cartels own most of Mexico, especially Northern Mexico, and exist mostly because of the drug laws in America which create a very strong black market. These cartels are ruthless. The weapons aren't the root cause.[/QUOTE] Have you ever even been to northern Mexico? Or even California, Texas, or Arizona for that matter? Not all of it is some giant ravaged wasteland filled with nothing but drugs and murder. Also you seriously think it's a good idea to legalize every drug under the sun? They don't just run on Marijuana you know.
[QUOTE=Valnar;38987463]American drug laws are what kills Mexicans. The Drug cartels own most of Mexico, especially Northern Mexico, and exist mostly because of the drug laws in America which create a very strong black market. These cartels are ruthless. The weapons aren't the root cause.[/QUOTE] Actually I think the Mexicans are killing the Mexicans. Nobody can deny the cartels are a huge problem, maybe one of the biggest, but if America legalized drugs it wouldn't solve the problem. Even if you could buy heroin from CVS, the cartels would turn to their other methods of income and we'd be dealing with slavers or gunrunners instead of drug dealers.
"Do american guns kill mexicans?" My thoughts when reading this title, supported by evidence from the article: A country with one legal gun shop, which is controlled by the military (Country A), is situated directly next to a country where the right to own a gun is guaranteed in its highest form of law (Country B). Where are the criminals in Country A getting their guns?
[QUOTE=JXZ;38994704]"Do american guns kill mexicans?" My thoughts when reading this title, supported by evidence from the article: A country with one legal gun shop, which is controlled by the military (Country A), is situated directly next to a country where the right to own a gun is guaranteed in its highest form of law (Country B). Where are the criminals in Country A getting their guns?[/QUOTE] It's a well known fact that the cartels ship drugs north and guns south.
What the fuck, it feels like it's implying that every American has "full auto" 'assault rifles', when really most of us just have semi auto rifles. The requirements to get your hands on a full automatic weapon legally is insane. Key word being legally.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.