• Marine Le Pen takes poll lead for next French presidential election
    62 replies, posted
Fun times ahead: [URL]http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/europe/38803-140731-france-marine-le-pen-a-presidential-favorite-poll-shows[/URL] [QUOTE]Were the French presidential election held now, controversial far-right leader Marine Le Pen would be the firm favorite, a poll showed on Thursday. With 26 percent of all votes Le Pen came ahead of mainstream contestants President Francois Hollande and Prime Minister Manuel Valls, each of whom gathered 17 percents, according to pollster IFOP. She secured just under 18 percent of the national vote in the first round of the presidential elections two years ago and indications are rife she is growing in popularity. Le Pen's Front National, rebranded as more than just an anti-immigrant party, won control of 11 towns and more than 1,400 municipal seats nationwide in recent local elections, easily its best ever performance at the grassroots level of French government. The next presidential election in France is in 2017. Le Pen took over the FN leadership in 2011 and set about broadening the appeal of a party regarded as taboo by many voters in light of her father's repeated convictions for Holocaust denial and inciting racial hatred. As well as trying to "detoxify" the FN's image, she has attempted to make it less of a single-issue party by campaigning on unemployment, costs of living and crime. Past FN attempts at running local councils have often failed as a result of the eccentric personalities involved, but Le Pen has been eager to show that the party is capable of prudent governance. "We want to become apparent as a big political force," she has repeatedly said.[/QUOTE]
Another reason never to set foot in France.
It's important to mention that in all the Run-Off polls Le Pen is far behind her opponents though.
With such a shitty Parti Socialiste President (left-wing) and such a corrupt UMP (right-wing), that was to be expected.
Yeah French politics are pretty shitty at the moment.
FT article on the same subject (more detailed): [URL="http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6a09af64-18a7-11e4-a51a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz38zwBNl32"]http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6a09af64-18a7-11e4-a51a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz38zwBNl32[/URL]
[QUOTE=_Axel;45561674]Yeah French politics are pretty shitty at the moment.[/QUOTE] I for one think it has never been so interesting. Watching the PS and the UMP trainwreck is hilarious, they're the ones who shat on De Gaulle's legacy and have little to no ideology left. The NPA is a bunch of violent assholes who often raid colleges and right-wing student associations, thanks to the Anti-Fascists movement. The Front de Gauche's leader is currently on a breakdown, last time we heard of him he sounded like an old depressed man (almost fell bad for him). The Modem/UDI has absolutely nothing new to propose and just decided to go with the UMP to try and save the sinking ships that are their 2 parties. The UPR really has a point, but will never get elected. DLR is hilariously bad, slogans are cheesy and their leader seems to forget he has been at the UMP for all the past years, silently approving every EU treaty. So now what, "sorry guys I fucked up vote for me?". The FN is really on a streak and could possibly win in 2017 if some major economic catastrophe happens in the next 3 years. Fun Fact : the party isn't really far-right wing anymore, but a left-wing one on most aspects (including economy). While every other party spits on them, they're the last one somewhat true to De Gaulle's principles. So yeah, when you add up to all of that social turmoil with a growing communautarism and an all time high unemployement rate, this is going to be very interesting.
Far right seems to be gaining a lot of power throughout europe. I'm personally completely and utterly opposed to right wing ideological ideas. This is quite worrying to me. I don't know a huge amount about french politics but it seems to be that both sides are complete and utter dickheads.
[img]http://puu.sh/aA995/ca61c2910e.png[/img] Why am I not surprised headshotter is liking this.
[QUOTE=headshotter;45561761]I for one think it has never been so interesting. Watching the PS and the UMP trainwreck is hilarious, they're the ones who shat on De Gaulle's legacy and have little to no ideology left. The NPA is a bunch of violent assholes who often raid colleges and right-wing student associations, thanks to the Anti-Fascists movement. The Front de Gauche's leader is currently on a breakdown, last time we heard of him he sounded like an old depressed man (almost fell bad for him). The Modem/UDI has absolutely nothing new to propose and just decided to go with the UMP to try and save the sinking ships that are their 2 parties. The UPR really has a point, but will never get elected. DLR is hilariously bad, slogans are cheesy and their leader seems to forget he has been at the UMP for all the past years, silently approving every EU treaty. So now what, "sorry guys I fucked up vote for me?". The FN is really on a streak and could possibly win in 2017 if some major economic catastrophe happens in the next 3 years. Fun Fact : the party isn't really far-right wing anymore, but a left-wing one on most aspects (including economy). While every other party spits on them, they're the last one somewhat true to De Gaulle's principles. So yeah, when you add up to all of that social turmoil with a growing communautarism and an all time high unemployement rate, this is going to be very interesting.[/QUOTE] I understand that the full names of those parties would be in French and I couldn't make sense of them at all, but could you please (for those like me and others), explain what the "UDI", "UPR" and so on, who they are and what they stand for?
[QUOTE=headshotter;45561761]I for one think it has never been so interesting. Watching the PS and the UMP trainwreck is hilarious, they're the ones who shat on De Gaulle's legacy and have little to no ideology left. The NPA is a bunch of violent assholes who often raid colleges and right-wing student associations, thanks to the Anti-Fascists movement. The Front de Gauche's leader is currently on a breakdown, last time we heard of him he sounded like an old depressed man (almost fell bad for him). The Modem/UDI has absolutely nothing new to propose and just decided to go with the UMP to try and save the sinking ships that are their 2 parties. The UPR really has a point, but will never get elected. DLR is hilariously bad, slogans are cheesy and their leader seems to forget he has been at the UMP for all the past years, silently approving every EU treaty. So now what, "sorry guys I fucked up vote for me?". The FN is really on a streak and could possibly win in 2017 if some major economic catastrophe happens in the next 3 years. Fun Fact : the party isn't really far-right wing anymore, but a left-wing one on most aspects (including economy). While every other party spits on them, they're the last one somewhat true to De Gaulle's principles. So yeah, when you add up to all of that social turmoil with a growing communautarism and an all time high unemployement rate, this is going to be very interesting.[/QUOTE] Who said that adhering to De Gaulle's principles was a good thing though?
God forbid she ever get a modicum of power over the whole country.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45561900][img]http://puu.sh/aA995/ca61c2910e.png[/img] Why am I not surprised headshotter is liking this.[/QUOTE] Probably because I never hid the fact I voted, will probably keep voting FN (nothing's set in stone) and explained why multiple times.
[QUOTE=headshotter;45561761] The FN is really on a streak and could possibly win in 2017 if some major economic catastrophe happens in the next 3 years. Fun Fact : the party isn't really far-right wing anymore, but a left-wing one on most aspects (including economy). While every other party spits on them, they're the last one somewhat true to De Gaulle's principles.[/QUOTE] getting real hitlery vibes right here
Today's France is not 1960 France, headshotter.
Most of the parties he mentioned are obscure side parties with close to no actual weight on current politics because most of them (including the FN) have no real grasp on how politics work. Ideals can't pull a country back on its feet. The only reason the National Front is getting more popular compared to all these other parties is because the media keeps putting them in the front line, and because the FN is designed around complete and utter demagogy. Like, literally, the FN has no real political plan (none that are actually doable anyway, "let's kick all the immigrants out and give France back to the French" doesn't count) other than "fuck Europe let's pull out that'll totally work right guys", and they advertise themselves as the only viable party in the midst of shitty "traitor" parties like the UMP (right wing), the PS (left wing), because they know people don't like the situation. You'll also notice most of their supporters are either old people who basically only vote for the FN because Marine Le Pen and her father (especially her father) never stop blabbering about French traditions or young toe-headed adults who are rarely in a shitty economical situation, are more than often Christian, and hate everything that's dark skinned because "muh French identity". That and they also count a pretty high number of people who regularly protest against abortion, gay marriage (they want the law removed and were out in the street when it was being voted), etc. So yeah, fuck the FN. Even if it had some good ideas, it's still a haven for all sort of extremist shitheads. And they don't even have good ideas, all of their policies are demagogic shitshows that can't possibly work without pissing off the court of human rights. Oh and as far as his political career goes, De Gaull has done a literal fuckton of mistakes, he was put there by a literal fucking coup d'etat and when the youth started going out in the street to ask for modernization of extremely backward policies (notably the ban on contraception and abortion), he literally left Paris in a helicopter for fear of being attacked by terrorists. Because he enforced French sovereignty at a time where it needed it doesn't change the fact that he did a ton of stupid crap, and that even the policies he is known were mostly motivated by sheer paranoia as well as a massive hate-boner for the US (he pulled out of NATO because he didn't want America to control France, and refused the UK's entry in the EU for all of his political career because he thought it'd mean the US could enter as well while disguised as the UK, and he commissioned the constructions of tons of nuclear plants to, again, stay away from the US).
Why are you guys beating him up about his political opinions?
[QUOTE=headshotter;45561761]The FN is really on a streak and could possibly win in 2017 if some major economic catastrophe happens in the next 3 years. Fun Fact : the party isn't really far-right wing anymore, but a left-wing one on most aspects (including economy). While every other party spits on them, they're the last one somewhat true to De Gaulle's principles.[/QUOTE] Aren't you worried that the EU or US would employ some dirty trickery to stop her getting elected? She has promised to leave the EU and NATO, they may not like that.
[QUOTE=toaster468;45562008]Why are you guys beating him up about his political opinions?[/QUOTE] We're allowed to do this in the free world, ~~[B]nister[/B].
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;45561905]I understand that the full names of those parties would be in French and I couldn't make sense of them at all, but could you please (for those like me and others), explain what the "UDI", "UPR" and so on, who they are and what they stand for?[/QUOTE] NPA : New Anticapitalist party, far-left wing FDG : Left Wing Front, left-wing party (wrongfully labelled as far-left imo) PS : Socialist Party, Left / Center wing Modem / UDI : Center wing, for a federal European Union, used to be 2 different parties but fused UMP : Popular union movement : right wing / center wing party (leaning towards the center due to the recent talks about teaming up with the Modem/UDI FN : National Front, labelled as Far-Right wing, but hard to really tell where they're at anymore DLR : "Debout la République !" "Republic Stand Up !", has been borrowing everything they can from the FN and is run by Nicolas Dupont-Aignan who used to be an UMP man UPR : Far-right wing party, wants out of Europe plain and simple, ran by Asselineau There's so much to say about every party, but that's the big picture. [QUOTE=_Axel;45561928]Who said that adhering to De Gaulle's principles was a good thing though?[/QUOTE] That's a matter of opinion, but I have a huge respect for someone who had the balls to stand up to the US and their post-WWII plans for Europe and managed to keep the country in a neutral stance. He was the one asking for an European Union built around nations (as opposed to a federal one), his fears and views on this specific subject are fascinating, I suggest you read his biography or listen to some of his speeches. Ideology aside, the man himself was also the most honest of his times, he even paid the Elysée's bills, we're far from a Chirac or Sarkozy who used taxpayer money for their own ends. You may or may not share his views, but the man did everything he did for his country, without ever thinking about himself.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;45562013]We're allowed to do this in the free world, ~~[B]nister[/B].[/QUOTE] [img]http://facepunch.com/fp/flags/se.png[/img] Yes you would know
[QUOTE=toaster468;45562008]Why are you guys beating him up about his political opinions?[/QUOTE] Because Headshotter has been going around endorsing a party about hating everything that's not French (and also hating everyone that's French but not white and Christian) for quite a while. I mean shit in that one thread about riots in Paris he even claimed the people who did the riots were basically not French but nasty arabs that were here to pollute his nice country. [editline]1st August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45562009]Aren't you worried that the EU or US would employ some dirty trickery to stop her getting elected? She has promised to leave the EU and NATO, they may not like that.[/QUOTE] They probably won't stop her, but you have to consider the fact that De Gaulle also left NATO and while he was there the EU was basically frozen because he would veto absolutely everything, and what happened is that the instant he left politics the next guy in charge just stopped the EU constant veto bullshit and joined NATO again. Stupid decisions like isolationism doesn't work beyond one person's mandate, ever.
[QUOTE=Nanamil;45561981]Today's France is not 1960 France, headshotter.[/QUOTE] If you're talking about De Gaulle, an ideology doesn't age much and 50 years ain't much. Read most of his speeches and it could have easily been said by a 2014 politician (except we don't have any politician nearly as bright as he was). [QUOTE=Ganerumo;45561999]Most of the parties he mentioned are obscure side parties with close to no actual weight on current politics because most of them (including the FN) have no real grasp on how politics work. Ideals can't pull a country back on its feet. The only reason the National Front is getting more popular compared to all these other parties is because the media keeps putting them in the front line, and because the FN is designed around complete and utter demagogy. Like, literally, the FN has no real political plan (none that are actually doable anyway, "let's kick all the immigrants out and give France back to the French" doesn't count) other than "fuck Europe let's pull out that'll totally work right guys", and they advertise themselves as the only viable party in the midst of shitty "traitor" parties like the UMP (right wing), the PS (left wing), because they know people don't like the situation. You'll also notice most of their supporters are either old people who basically only vote for the FN because Marine Le Pen and her father (especially her father) never stop blabbering about French traditions or young toe-headed adults who are rarely in a shitty economical situation, are more than often Christian, and hate everything that's dark skinned because "muh French identity". That and they also count a pretty high number of people who regularly protest against abortion, gay marriage (they want the law removed and were out in the street when it was being voted), etc. So yeah, fuck the FN. Even if it had some good ideas, it's still a haven for all sort of extremist shitheads. And they don't even have good ideas, all of their policies are demagogic shitshows that can't possibly work without pissing off the court of human rights.[/QUOTE] What, I mentionned every major French party. This isn't the US (no offense intended), even the smallest of parties have a take on national politics. Take the NPA and FDG, they might now have many deputy seats, might not have many mayors, but have lots of regional counselors (money for the party) and have been of critical use in Hollande's 2012 Victory. "Ideals can't pull a country back on its feet" : then what can? I can't deny the media putting the FN in the front line helps the party, it's true. But that's definitly not the only reason, remember when Mélenchon (FDG) used to be everywhere (especially during the Ayrault's prime minister crisis, when everyone called for Mélenchon to replace him)? It definitly had an impact on the FDG recognition, but hasn't stopped them from suffering big electoral defeats. Besides what's wrong with media coverage all of a sudden? Nobody seemed to be complaining when the PS and UMP was on the spotlights, now that a third party is being covered everyone blames it on TV on journals? Let's be reasonnable for a second here. [QUOTE]Like, literally, the FN has no real political plan (none that are actually doable anyway, "let's kick all the immigrants out and give France back to the French" doesn't count) other than "fuck Europe let's pull out that'll totally work right guys", and they advertise themselves as the only viable party in the midst of shitty "traitor" parties like the UMP (right wing), the PS (left wing), because they know people don't like the situation.[/QUOTE] I'm just tired of you repeating this over and over, this is just wrong. 1/ No they're not kicking all the immigrants out and giving France back to the French. No they're not stopping EVERY immigration like it's the plague or something. 2/ No they're not just pulling out from Europe by a press of a button. This is far more complex than that. I doubt you're into reading if you're still thinking strawmans work on the FN, but here, have this 106 pages long PDF fresh off the Front National's website with all of their propositions : [url]http://www.frontnational.com/pdf/Programme.pdf[/url] Not all of their supporters are "old christian farts who hate the dark skinned and never had a problem" (you realize how stupid that sounds right), for fact, the FNJ (Front National des Jeunes, Youngs from the National Front) are way ahead from the Jeunes Pop (UMP) and Mouvement des Jeunesses Socialistes (PS). Abortion isn't even a debate amongst the Front National anymore, Gay Marriage might still be but most of the electors don't really care about that and are not voting FN for these reasons (hence why Marine Le Pen doesn't usually bring up the gay marriage subject). Still on the gay marriage subject, you might also want to point the finger at the UMP who have been the spearhead of the protests, not the FN. [QUOTE]So yeah, fuck the FN. Even if it had some good ideas, it's still a haven for all sort of extremist shitheads. And they don't even have good ideas, all of their policies are demagogic shitshows that can't possibly work without pissing off the court of human rights.[/QUOTE] Come back when you really want to discuss this subject with facts, not this kind of strawman and prejudice. [QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45562009]Aren't you worried that the EU or US would employ some dirty trickery to stop her getting elected? She has promised to leave the EU and NATO, they may not like that.[/QUOTE] They may not like that, but I'm confident in my country's institutions. Define dirty trickery.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45561900][img]http://puu.sh/aA995/ca61c2910e.png[/img] Why am I not surprised headshotter is liking this.[/QUOTE] What are you trying to achieve with a post like this? "Oh look at this guy everyone, he has a different political standpoint than me, HOW DARE HE!?"
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45562042]Because Headshotter has been going around endorsing a party about hating everything that's not French (and also hating everyone that's French but not white and Christian) for quite a while. I mean shit in that one thread about riots in Paris he even claimed the people who did the riots were basically not French but nasty arabs that were here to pollute his nice country.[/quote] You know you could just tell everyone I'm a racist motherfucker, that was your point right. Here's the thread : [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1411416[/url] Read all of it, then dare tell everyone I said something along the lines of "nasty arabs polluting my nice country". You're full of shit. [QUOTE=Ganerumo;45562042]They probably won't stop her, but you have to consider the fact that De Gaulle also left NATO and while he was there the EU was basically frozen because he would veto absolutely everything, and what happened is that the instant he left politics the next guy in charge just stopped the EU constant veto bullshit and joined NATO again. Stupid decisions like isolationism doesn't work beyond one person's mandate, ever.[/QUOTE] Next guy in charge hasn't "just stopped the EU constant veto bullshit" all of a sudden. Nor did he join NATO again, sarkozy did and it was just a few years ago.
[QUOTE=Hellsten;45562155]What are you trying to achieve with a post like this? "Oh look at this guy everyone, he has a different political standpoint than me, HOW DARE HE!?"[/QUOTE] If you're not French then you probably don't understand how much of a joke supporting the FN makes you.
I'm genuinely interested to see what will come out of the nationalism rebirth trend in Europe. It'll probably be something terrible though
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45562235]If you're not French then you probably don't understand how much of a joke supporting the FN makes you.[/QUOTE] Well obviously at least 26 percents of polled french disagree with you, if not more considering a steadily increasing amount of UMP electors don't reject the FN anymore. Besides all of our discussions concerning the FN have been you pulling a strawman and I forced to fact-check you. If anything that makes you the living joke.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;45562247]I'm genuinely interested to see what will come out of the nationalism rebirth trend in Europe. It'll probably be something terrible though[/QUOTE] there have been nationalist parties ruling in European states for a very long time without causing genocides or any controversy but it's "far right" (even though they mostly arent) so let's just assume its always going to be bad becuze hitler
[QUOTE=Kentz;45562368]there have been nationalist parties ruling in European states for a very long time without causing genocides or any controversy but it's "far right" (even though they mostly arent) so let's just assume its always going to be bad becuze hitler[/QUOTE] Considering the FN was created by nazi sympathizers (the founder of the party resigned like 5 years ago and it's his daughter who's in charge now) I think the concern is legitimate.
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