• Student Accused of Sexual Assault Wins Lawsuit Against UC San Diego for Mistrial
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[url]https://www.yahoo.com/health/court-ruling-highlights-flaws-in-college-sexual-124255316347.html[/url] [quote] [IMG]https://s.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w540/36623e8fa2a829337e109516fb017f0957a34339.jpg[/IMG] [B][I]A male student at UC San Diego who was accused of sexual assault and suspended after a campus investigation filed a countersuit — and won. Here’s a look at if and how this could affect college rape trials across the country.[/I][/B] (Photo: Corbis/Richard Cummins) Experts say a new ruling in a sexual assault case involving two students at UC San Diego should be a wakeup call to schools across the country that sexual misconduct processes can be flawed. The alleged assault happened after the students met at a party early last year, and began having consensual oral sex later that month, the [URL="http://www.latimes.com/local/education/la-me-ucsd-male-student-20150715-story.html#page=1"]Los Angeles Times[/URL] reports. On Jan. 31, the couple went to a fraternity party and returned to the male student’s apartment, where they had sex. That led to a sexual assault complaint, a university investigation, and suspension of the male student. The students have been identified only as “John Doe” and “Jane Roe” because of the sensitive nature of sexual assault cases.) But Doe pursued legal action in court and won, in what is believed to be the first ruling in recent history that found a university failed to give a fair trial in a sexual assault case. In his ruling, Superior Court Judge Joel M. Pressman cited the fact that Doe was prevented from fully confronting his accuser in the trial, as well as insufficient evidence that sexual encounters occurred without Roe’s consent. Pressman also ordered the school to drop its suspension against Doe. Pressman based his decision on the following: Roe filed the complaint four months after the sexual encounter, alleged there were two cases of sexual activity without her consent and one instance of retaliation. She told a campus investigator that the alleged assault had greatly impacted her, but text messages and testimony showed that she continued to spend time with Doe. She also told the investigator that she was too drunk to give consent before the encounters, but statements from 14 witnesses said otherwise. [/quote]
[QUOTE]Pressman based his decision on the following: Roe filed the complaint four months after the sexual encounter, alleged there were two cases of sexual activity without her consent and one instance of retaliation. She told a campus investigator that the alleged assault had greatly impacted her, but text messages and testimony showed that she continued to spend time with Doe.[/QUOTE] So she accuses him of rape for an act of sex but was having fun with him during the period after the sex? Retroactively withdrawing consent is something that I just can't wrap my head around. [QUOTE]“Schools are grappling with how to handle these issues, but they have a lot of information available to them on it,”[/QUOTE] Seems like schools are making kneejerk reactions to these rape accusations. Doesn't help that there is a massive misandrist hate mob making unreasonable demands that would push the burden of proof onto the accused.
This is very good, schools liked to side with the alleged victim because historically it had been a safer choice for the school. This case has changed the precedent and hopefully we can see schools take these issues more far seriously for both the accuser and the accused.
Now THIS is justice.
Pretty clear cut abuse there, I really wish schools would just leave the justice system to the justice system instead of setting up their own puppet courts. These cases are the only thing they actually prosecute in the schools systems, assaults, robbery, they're done outside by the police, why should rape be different, I know title 9, but it never intended for one-sided courts to be established by schools
[QUOTE=Sableye;48228309]Pretty clear cut abuse there, [B]I really wish schools would just leave the justice system to the justice system instead of setting up their own puppet courts. [/B]These cases are the only thing they actually prosecute in the schools systems, assaults, robbery, they're done outside by the police, why should rape be different, I know title 9, but it never intended for one-sided courts to be established by schools[/QUOTE] They are required by law to set these up last I heard.
[QUOTE=Sableye;48228309]Pretty clear cut abuse there, I really wish schools would just leave the justice system to the justice system instead of setting up their own puppet courts. These cases are the only thing they actually prosecute in the schools systems, assaults, robbery, they're done outside by the police, why should rape be different, I know title 9, but it never intended for one-sided courts to be established by schools[/QUOTE] If a crime is serious (aka real) you go to real police. If it's not, you go to uni court. At least that's how I see it. If actual rape was committed, you go to police to report it. Why would you go to university to report crimes?
I've heard too many stories like this. My brothers friend lost 3 years of his life fighting the courts because some bitch said he raped her when in reality she was too afraid to admit to her parents she had sex Another recent one is that this student at a college near me was charged with rape. During the trial, he wasn't allowed to speak, present evidence or have a lawyer. Well now he's suing the shit outta the school with the evidence that shows the girl consented over text and because it was clearly a mistrial. Everything is going to shit and we're along for the ride.
[QUOTE=Squad1993;48229212]I've heard too many stories like this. My brothers friend lost 3 years of his life fighting the courts because some bitch said he raped her when in reality she was too afraid to admit to her parents she had sex Another recent one is that this student at a college near me was charged with rape. During the trial, he wasn't allowed to speak, present evidence or have a lawyer. Well now he's suing the shit outta the school with the evidence that shows the girl consented over text and because it was clearly a mistrial. Everything is going to shit and we're along for the ride.[/QUOTE]Is this what people mean by rape culture? Because in that case they are right, rape culture is real and excuses anyone who lies about it.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48229232]Is this what people mean by rape culture?[/QUOTE] nope
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;48228187](...) She told a campus investigator that the alleged assault had greatly impacted her, but text messages and testimony showed that she continued to spend time with Doe. She also told the investigator that she was too drunk to give consent before the encounters, but statements from 14 witnesses said otherwise.[/QUOTE] I don't know how on earth they could decide to suspend the dude with evidence like this. Countersuit completely deserved.
[QUOTE=Super Muffin;48229636]I don't know how on earth they could decide to suspend the dude with evidence like this. Countersuit completely deserved.[/QUOTE] Because unlike some want to believe, misandry is a real thing.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48228215]So she accuses him of rape for an act of sex but was having fun with him during the period after the sex? Retroactively withdrawing consent is something that I just can't wrap my head around. Seems like schools are making kneejerk reactions to these rape accusations. Doesn't help that there is a massive misandrist hate mob making unreasonable demands that would push the burden of proof onto the accused.[/QUOTE] Well, it doesn't say in the report, but she should be prosecuted for making false accusations.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48229232]Is this what people mean by rape culture? Because in that case they are right, rape culture is real and excuses anyone who lies about it.[/QUOTE] Rape culture is a term for places like the most conservative parts of the middle east where if a woman is raped, you need to have 2 male witnesses or the perpetrator needs to admit in court for it to EVER be considered (just like in to kill a mockingbird) or wherever rape is tolerated like in parts of India. People like to say it's present all over North America but it's simply not true.
[QUOTE=01271;48229769]Rape culture is a term for places like the most conservative parts of the middle east where if a woman is raped, you need to have 2 male witnesses or the perpetrator needs to admit in court for it to EVER be considered (just like in to kill a mockingbird) or wherever rape is tolerated like in parts of India. People like to say it's present all over North America but it's simply not true.[/QUOTE] In fact we have the opposite. We hate rape so much that we'd make a pariah out of anybody even accused of rape. Regardless of whether or not the claim has any basis behind it. As evidence for the rape culture people will usually cite Bill Cosby or the Stuebenville rapes and honestly. Thats not rape culture, its celebrity worship and sports worship. People forgave a guy for having a dogfighting ring and people have been forgiven for domestic abuse and murder. People love athletes and celebrities and have an entirely different set of standards for them.
[quote]UC San Diego officials told the Times that they are considering an appeal.[/quote] Are you fucking serious? Is it really that necessary to continue to ruin this guys life over what was clearly not sexual assault?
[QUOTE=elfbarf;48231304]Are you fucking serious? Is it really that necessary to continue to ruin this guys life over what was clearly not sexual assault?[/QUOTE] As far as I know universities tend to side with women on sexual assault cases due to PR. More women attend universities than men in the U.S. iirc, so they have to do everything to make the school look attractive to the largest audience by creating "safe spaces" and one sided trials.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;48231412]As far as I know universities tend to side with women on sexual assault cases due to PR. More women attend universities than men in the U.S. iirc, so they have to do everything to make the school look attractive to the largest audience by creating "safe spaces" and one sided trials.[/QUOTE] Oh, I know exactly why they do it, but it's ridiculous that they'd go to the length of appealing the decision even though they have to know by now that they're in the wrong. I guess they've convinced themselves that the accused isn't a human being whose life they're ruining for the sake of fucking PR.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48230977]In fact we have the opposite. We hate rape so much that we'd make a pariah out of anybody even accused of rape. Regardless of whether or not the claim has any basis behind it. As evidence for the rape culture people will usually cite Bill Cosby or the Stuebenville rapes and honestly. Thats not rape culture, its celebrity worship and sports worship. People forgave a guy for having a dogfighting ring and people have been forgiven for domestic abuse and murder. People love athletes and celebrities and have an entirely different set of standards for them.[/QUOTE] How are those two examples not rape culture? Rape culture involves any social attitude that condones, normalizes, excuses, or delegitimizes sexual assault. "She got drunk around boys what do you expect?" "Bill Cosby is a great actor, these women are just scheming bitches trying to cash in."
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;48231781] "She got drunk around boys what do you expect?" "Bill Cosby is a great actor, these women are just scheming bitches trying to cash in."[/QUOTE] Its a celebrity and athlete worship problem. We don't have a dog fighting culture but Micheal Vick was convicted of it and forgiven by the American public, etc. If he were anything but an athlete he would be ruined. We don't have a murder culture but OJ Simpson, etc. Like seriously. We have hundreds of thousands of people that would sign a petition to get a bunch of people expelled for telling rape jokes and people who support people who blatantly lie about rape. Its a "Listen and believe" culture that thinks that its completely acceptable to ignore "innocent until proven guilty" when the crime is rape and even have a system where the accused has to [I]prove their innocence[/I]. [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im25MN5AwIc[/url]
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;48231781]How are those two examples not rape culture? Rape culture involves any social attitude that condones, normalizes, excuses, or delegitimizes sexual assault. "She got drunk around boys what do you expect?" "Bill Cosby is a great actor, these women are just scheming bitches trying to cash in."[/QUOTE] Because if it were a regular Joe, they wouldn't let him off the hook.
Being pardoned for crimes due to your status is nothing new and definitely not a rape culture.
[quote]massive misandrist hate mob[/quote] [quote] misandry is a real thing.[/quote] do tell
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;48231781]How are those two examples not rape culture? Rape culture involves any social attitude that condones, normalizes, excuses, or delegitimizes sexual assault. "She got drunk around boys what do you expect?" "Bill Cosby is a great actor, these women are just scheming bitches trying to cash in."[/QUOTE] Remember when Caitlyn Jenner totally killed that one old lady, but now she's seen as some great person and in fact given awards on bravery? Kinda the same concept. It's not rape culture, it's people giving celebrities and athletes a completely different set of standards. [sp]I've seen way too many people outright saying the car crash was "an unfortunate accident" and Caityln shouldn't be charged because "the old woman was going to die anyway, why punish someone for doing it?"[/sp]
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;48232950]Remember when Caitlyn Jenner totally killed that one old lady, but now she's seen as some great person and in fact given awards on bravery? Kinda the same concept. It's not rape culture, it's people giving celebrities and athletes a completely different set of standards. [sp]I've seen way too many people outright saying the car crash was "an unfortunate accident" and Caityln shouldn't be charged because "the old woman was going to die anyway, why punish someone for doing it?"[/sp][/QUOTE] It's people giving celebrities and athletes a completely different set of standards [B]which therefore contributes to rape culture.[/B] And it's not something exclusive to "important" people like celebrities and athletes (though it is more likely to apply to them). Almost every rape victim experiences victim blaming to some degree, no matter the social standing of the perpetrator.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;48233092]Almost every rape victim experiences victim blaming to some degree, no matter the social standing of the perpetrator.[/QUOTE] That's an incredibly massive claim that I'm certain you don't have support for. Also, half the stuff called vicitim blaming is just people trying to give advice to people for the future. For example, you can both say, "Hey, women probably shouldn't go down dark alleys alone in bad areas of a big city," while also not blaming women who do and get mugged/raped.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48233169]That's an incredibly massive claim that I'm certain you don't have support for. Also, half the stuff called vicitim blaming is just people trying to give advice to people for the future. For example, you can both say, "Hey, women probably shouldn't go down dark alleys alone in bad areas of a big city," while also not blaming women who do and get mugged/raped.[/QUOTE] men really shouldn't be doing that, either, tbh
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;48233092]It's people giving celebrities and athletes a completely different set of standards [B]which therefore contributes to rape culture.[/B] And it's not something exclusive to "important" people like celebrities and athletes (though it is more likely to apply to them). Almost every rape victim experiences victim blaming to some degree, no matter the social standing of the perpetrator.[/QUOTE] How is it contributing to rape culture if you can have these situations happen in places that don't have rape culture?
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;48233297]men really shouldn't be doing that, either, tbh[/QUOTE] You're right, they shouldn't, but that doesn't really change the point. I just specified women because of the rape issue.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48233341]You're right, they shouldn't, but that doesn't really change the point. I just specified women because of the rape issue.[/QUOTE] if anything, agreeing that men shouldn't do it as well proves your point even moreso, as it takes away the ability for someone to say that by singling out women you are blaming them
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