Virginia Governor Restores Voting Rights to Felons
28 replies, posted
[URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/us/governor-terry-mcauliffe-virginia-voting-rights-convicted-felons.html"]SOURCE[/URL]
[QUOTE]WASHINGTON — Gov. [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/m/terry_mcauliffe/index.html?inline=nyt-per"]Terry McAuliffe[/URL] of Virginia used his executive power on Friday to restore voting rights to more than 200,000 convicted felons, circumventing the Republican-run legislature. The action effectively overturns a Civil War-era provision in the state’s Constitution aimed, he said, at disenfranchising African-Americans.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]The sweeping order, in a swing state that could play a role in deciding the November presidential election, will enable all felons who have served their prison time and finished parole or probation to register to vote. Most are African-Americans, a core constituency of Democrats, Mr. McAuliffe’s political party.[/QUOTE]
I still can't believe permanent disenfranchisement is legal
This is great. Just because someone commits a crime does not mean they are no longer a person.
The right to vote is linked to citizenship. You can't take that away unless they're no longer a citizen.
[QUOTE=download;50195709]The right to vote is linked to citizenship. You can't take that away unless they're no longer a citizen.[/QUOTE]
apparently in the US that is not true, this is one of those weird cases where they've used something in the constitution for something it wasn't intended for
basically the 14th amendment does give the government the right to take away citizenship as punishment for crimes or rebellion. unfortunately fast forward 110 years to the 1970s and you get states using that clause to justify permanent disenfranchisement, and like the death penalty, these laws were allowed as long as they didn't show a racial motivation or have a racial impact, but lets face it, nobody bothered to check up on that and we end up with 1 in 5 blacks being ineligible to vote in places like virginia because of it.
[editline]24th April 2016[/editline]
today you could make a really good case that these laws have had a racial impact, but nobody's made the argument strong enough and with the court being moderately conservative for the last 10 years you wouldn't see it happen anyways
As far I am concern only not should a en ex - felon should be allowed to vote should a current one as well aka they have votes in the prison them self hell half time should be spend learning about polices and which is best for them aka FUCKING rehabilitate THEM. Most are just people who made mistake not this years Angel of Death that deserve there treatment.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Terrible post, completely illegible" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;50196057]As far I am concern only not should a en ex - felon should be allowed to vote should a current one as well aka they have votes in the prison them self hell half time should be spend learning about polices and which is best for them aka FUCKING rehabilitate THEM. Most are just people who made mistake not this years Angel of Death that deserve there treatment.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand why anyone argues against prisoners being able to vote. It's not like they stop living in the country, and what negative outcome could there possibly be to them voting?
At best you get some politically active citizens and at worst you go to the trouble of supplying ballots and organising a day or two for the voting only to have a really low turnout.
Regardless, not letting felons who have served their sentence vote is absolutely unjust.
[QUOTE=Menien Goneld;50196483]I don't understand why anyone argues against prisoners being able to vote. It's not like they stop living in the country, and what negative outcome could there possibly be to them voting?
At best you get some politically active citizens and at worst you go to the trouble of supplying ballots and organising a day or two for the voting only to have a really low turnout.
Regardless, not letting felons who have served their sentence vote is absolutely unjust.[/QUOTE]
welp look at the shit that dnc pulls alone even if the rules where made in place before berns came to play they really where made to stop giving someone like berns a chance I bet the dnc and gop alone know that most prisoners are not horribly people just low income people whom resort to desperate measures to get by and now what kind of vote they would make hence why they would block it
[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;50196566]welp look at the shit that dnc pulls alone even if the rules where made in place before berns came to play they really where made to stop giving someone like berns a chance I bet the dnc and gop alone know that most prisoners are not horribly people just low income people whom resort to desperate measures to get by and now what kind of vote they would make hence why they would block it[/QUOTE]
i'm not even sure what you're trying to say. i agree that prisoners shouldn't get to vote while serving their sentence, but once they're released they should have at least the right to participate in the government restored, and even though voting is the smallest way you can participate in the government, i believe that we're only making it worse for them to reintegrate into society by permanently stripping that right
I'm glad people are working on reversing the dehumanizing laws put in place for whatever reason.
[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;50196057]As far I am concern only not should a en ex - felon should be allowed to vote should a current one as well aka they have votes in the prison them self hell half time should be spend learning about polices and which is best for them aka FUCKING rehabilitate THEM. Most are just people who made mistake not this years Angel of Death that deserve there treatment.[/QUOTE]
Aww poor violent felons "just made a mistake" like raping people, murder, and armed robbery. Non-violent felons should be able to vote though.
[QUOTE=download;50195709]The right to vote is linked to citizenship. You can't take that away unless they're no longer a citizen.[/QUOTE]
Being a felon is literally being a second-class citizen.
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;50196815]Aww poor violent felons "just made a mistake" like raping people, murder, and armed robbery. Non-violent felons should be able to vote though.[/QUOTE]
to be fair allot of prisoners I was trying to defend was " Non - Violent " Felons like someone trying to smoke a joint I guess you miss " The Angel Of Death Part " aka I was talking about Rapist and Murders in that regard but most are people who made a fuck up in there life that should not make them to lose the right to vote. Not saying they should get a " Get Out Free Jail Card " like you're making it look like it seems
[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;50197018]to be fair allot of prisoners I was trying to defend was " Non - Violent " Felons like someone trying to smoke a joint I guess you miss " The Angel Of Death Part " aka I was talking about Rapist and Murders in that regard but most are people who made a fuck up in there life that should not make them to lose the right to vote. Not saying they should get a " Get Out Free Jail Card " like you're making it look like it seems[/QUOTE]
I never implied you said that.
[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;50196566]welp look at the shit that dnc pulls alone even if the rules where made in place before berns came to play they really where made to stop giving someone like berns a chance I bet the dnc and gop alone know that most prisoners are not horribly people just low income people whom resort to desperate measures to get by and now what kind of vote they would make hence why they would block it[/QUOTE]
sentences, grammar, how do they work?
While inmates don't have the right to vote, I could have sworn that something was still made with their votes..?
Like, all their votes given to someone, or something. Anyone?
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;50198990]While inmates don't have the right to vote, I could have sworn that something was still made with their votes..?
Like, all their votes given to someone, or something. Anyone?[/QUOTE]
Prisoners count towards the population of a district, but are not allowed to vote. It's like the exact same situation which gave rise to the 3/5ths compromise.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;50198990]While inmates don't have the right to vote, I could have sworn that something was still made with their votes..?
Like, all their votes given to someone, or something. Anyone?[/QUOTE]
ACORN was an organization that did some shady stuff with prisoner voting back in 2007-08 and then they got disbanded
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;50196815]Aww poor violent felons "just made a mistake" like raping people, murder, and armed robbery. Non-violent felons should be able to vote though.[/QUOTE]
Okay, so how do voting rights enable those violent felons to continue raping and or murdering people? What does revoking their ability to vote actually accomplish? It is a pointless violation of basic civil liberties.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;50199429]Okay, so how do voting rights enable those violent felons to continue raping and or murdering people? What does revoking their ability to vote actually accomplish? It is a pointless violation of basic civil liberties.[/QUOTE]
Doubles Avocado for a moment here. What does them voting actually accomplish? Violent felons are frequently in jail for extended periods of time, and multiple times as well. What benefits to society exist in them voting? For all intents and purposes they are effectively removed from society for the term of their imprisonment.
I think barring them from voting is stupid, but I don't see why convicted felons serving time for violent crimes [I]need[/I] to be able to vote. I wouldn't complain if they could vote, mind you. I'm just rather apathetic on the matter.
It's simple. Voting is a basic civil right, and felons are still citizens. They have a voice in the political landscape just the same as anybody else. Obviously in prison, some rights are limited to protect society. However, the scope of those limitations must be specific, purposeful, and humane. If our justice system wanted to make felons ineligible to vote, then it should need to have a damn good reason.
Furthermore, if the point of a democracy is to keep a certain balance of power between the people and the government, stripping voting rights from felons upsets that power. If unjust laws or legal persecution exists, then the victims of that wouldn't be unable to fight back with their voting rights revoked. This makes that whole "1-in-13 blacks can't vote due to prior convictions" statistic pretty damn concerning.
I think in the end, not allowing them to vote is basically the same as dismissing someone's logical fucking argument because, say for example, they smell funny. Or because they are convicted felon, a murderer.
After all, voting is about being logical, kinda like making an argument. Generally you have to know who you are voting for, and why. If you really don't, you're an idiot. Technically, many of us here are idiots. I think I'm an idiot. But anyways, just because you're in prison for killing somebody, or something, it doesn't mean you're necessarily an idiot. And every idiot out there is allowed to vote anyway, so where's the logic in that?
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;50199429]Okay, so how do voting rights enable those violent felons to continue raping and or murdering people? What does revoking their ability to vote actually accomplish? It is a pointless violation of basic civil liberties.[/QUOTE]
Duh if we let felons vote they'd make rape and murder legal why don't you see the danger
[QUOTE=Code3Response;50196822]Being a felon is literally being a second-class citizen.[/QUOTE]I'm not sure why everyone is skipping over your post when you're exactly right. It's one of my biggest complaints of the criminal justice system and I'd argue that it creates an environment where felons are forced to remain criminals.
Just because you're a felon, doesn't mean you did anything wrong. You should retain your voting rights and control of the country. Felons, being mostly minority men, deserve priveleges within our democracy. They are the ones who should be making the countries decisions.
[QUOTE=matt_caster;50209023]Just because you're a felon, doesn't mean you did anything wrong. You should retain your voting rights and control of the country. Felons, being mostly minority men, deserve priveleges within our democracy. They are the ones who should be making the countries decisions.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic - yes, felons almost certainly did something wrong. That's not the argument. The argument is whether "doing something wrong" should invalidate your constitutional rights into perpetuity. Should vandalism (or "disturbing public order" which can be felonious) be reason enough to invalidate your right as a citizen to participate in the voting process?
The wealthy don't face this disenfranchisement. If your company fails and you're unable to pay back wages and you go bankrupt - good work, you've officially stolen the labor of multiple employees in the tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. But you won't go to jail. You won't lose your right to vote on a felony conviction - even though someone who stole that same amount of money directly would lose the right to vote permanently in several states. In fact, after bankruptcy and restructuring, you'd likely be able to donate hundreds of thousands to super-PACs to unfairly influence elections in your favor, and you'd be able to afford lobbyists to push laws that would, again, favor your own interests.
Felons are disenfranchised from one of the only ways they can influence the voting process. People who commit crimes with far more influential and far-reaching consequences on the economy and society are rewarded and can influence the democratic process with [i]much much more[/i] than a single vote. Plus they get to use that vote, too.
Fraud is the single least-prosecuted felony of all felonies. It's one of the only ones that will impact the wealthy, and one of the most damaging to society. Drug-related felonies are #1 at nearly 2 million a year. They have almost solely an individual impact and don't particularly damage society or the economy on any level at all. Yet they're the most common. This is disenfranchisement of the poor and of minorities - yes, they did something wrong, but that doesn't mean that you should lose your right to vote.
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;50196815]Aww poor violent felons "just made a mistake" like raping people, murder, and armed robbery. Non-violent felons should be able to vote though.[/QUOTE]
Well what's funny is in the entire state of Texas, the only person the federal courts found to have standing to challenge the voter ID laws is some convicted ex-violent felon who only can vote because big and bad evil racist Texas decided once you serve your sentence you can vote again.
[QUOTE=download;50195709]The right to vote is linked to citizenship. You can't take that away unless they're no longer a citizen.[/QUOTE]
While I agree with you, it leads to the question, should felons be allowed to own firearms? It is a right also. Same goes for those mentally ill, they are citizens and entitled to their rights, but I think almost everyone on both sides of the gun argument agree the mentally ill shouldn't be allowed to own firearms.
[QUOTE=wystan;50212092]While I agree with you, it leads to the question, should felons be allowed to own firearms? It is a right also. Same goes for those mentally ill, they are citizens and entitled to their rights, but I think almost everyone on both sides of the gun argument agree the mentally ill shouldn't be allowed to own firearms.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;50204654]However, the scope of those limitations must be specific, purposeful, and humane. If our justice system wanted to make felons ineligible to vote, then it should need to have a damn good reason.[/QUOTE]
This. You can abuse firearms to [B]kill people[/B]. You can not commit murder with a ballot(or at least not in any way that isn't hilariously inefficient).
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