What do you guys think about an actual pixel wars game?
207 replies, posted
Every now and then I find myself looking at this section of the forum and think "wow, a lot of these guys are pretty creative and talented in the realm of paint art" (as far as I'm concerned at least). I see that the tradition is to make a thread and try to establish a loose rule set and see how it turns out and I think I understand the reason it's so entertaining.
I need a new project to work on in my free time and this seems like it would be a great idea considering the crowd. Sometimes I wish you guys could get into a more legitimate, less restrictive, competition amongst each other to really make "Pixel Wars" come alive.
Essentially, my goal would be to create an online 2D game in which users could login, host or join matches, and turn the current tradition of pixel wars being a slide by slide update deal played on a forum into a fluid real-time battle. I figured the battles could be automatically recorded, saved, shared, or just posted here on the forums.
I've given it some thought and have listed some basic design elements that I think are important (try to bare with me, I have a working system in my head so don't sweat it if you don't see exactly how it will come together):
[b]Basic Design Elements[/b] [i]Excludes Gameplay[/i]
[list]
[*]Basic social networking features, friends list, server list, join friends game, in game chat. Maybe a central website to share sprites.
[*]Account based, you log in, can have basic stats associated with your account like rank and games played, won, lost, ect.
[*]User uploaded armies and maps, upon joining a server, the map will be downloaded and cached, and so will each player's sprite set.
[*]Intuitive, very easy to use map designer and army maker. Map designer will allow for moving entities, simple entity I/O features (like hammer), and maybe gameplay specific things like CTF. Both should have all the features that paint has plus some more (obviously nothing fancy just stuff like pixel materials)
[*]Mostly destructible environment, not quite like worms where you can dig a tunnel, but to the point where you can cause some pretty admirable havok.
[*]Basic moderation tools, the server host will have the ability to glance at a user's sprite set, and choose whether to accept/deny them access to the game if the set doesn't fit the theme or is generally just bogus.
[*]Unit types, infantry, armor, flying, ect. Unit designer will let you assign types.
[*]Unit Arsenal, For infantry you can design their weapons and equipment, for vehicles you can place their weapons and choose the type (rotating turret, bomb dropper, ect)
[*]Game rules, mentioned earlier. Can be determined by the map for non-tradtitional maps and for traditional maps stuff like last man standing, hold this position, team vs team, base vs base, ect.
[/list]
I'm trying to make the designers and gameplay as simple as possible while still balanced and fun with many possibilities.
[b]Try to keep in mind I kept things general so I don't bore you with specific details[/b]
[b]Gameplay[/b]
[list]
[*]Depending on game rules, each player has a requisition of units, they may only have a certain number of squads/vehicles on the field. (game rules may up the limit for a player if they capture a point, ect)
[*]Squad control, you can control any squad at any time with your movement keys and mouse (aiming). Any squad you are not controlling at a given time will default to their AI state (which you can set at any time) which may be defend, pursue, patrol, return fire only, ect.
[*]Fog of war setup for strategy, not line-of-sight reveal but rather a radial reveal where things like doors, and contiguous objects (like walls) will block view. Distance and unit type are factors.
[*]Depending on game rules, players may drop units off from a designated starting area, from a base, or from a captured point. Players may also send units back or swap units.
[/list]
Also trying to keep this basic, I realize artists work best with tools that are flexible and simple.
[b]Army Designer[/b]
[u]Infantry[/u] [i]Things you must design are denoted by [highlight][b]*[/b][/highlight], otherwise there are defaults available[/i]
[list]
[*]Infantry units can have 1 primary weapon and 1 special piece of equipment be that armor, grenade, rocket shoes, glow stick, cocaine, ect.
[*]Commando/Hero unit can have 1 primary weapon, 1 secondary weapon, and 2 special equipments
[*]Each player designs their own things like explosions, projectiles, smoke trails, bullet trails, ect. Defaults will be provided if they don't feel like customizing everything (there will be fail safes to detect attempts to cheat like invisible bullet trails and a server admin will be notified upon joining a server).
[*][highlight][b]*[/b][/highlight]Infantry require idle, walking, running, jumping, and crouching sprites at the very minimum. The ability to add 1 or 2 custom emotes will be allowed too. Aiming will be accomplished by designing the left and right hands separately and aligning them to your character with the designer.
[*]You may design your death animation if you like. Currently there are two death types: normal death (like bullet) and explosive death (rpg, grenade, ect). [highlight][b]*[/b][/highlight]The server may require you to have a normal death animation/sprite if persistent bodies is enabled (bodies stay on floor for entire match), otherwise the default is just to turn into a cloud of blood that falls to the floor.
[*]A bounding box is automatically generated and you will be flagged if your bounding box result is too small or too large (this doesn't mean you'll be kicked, just flagged for review)
[*]You may design weapons, ammunitions, and so on then associate them with an infantry unit. Effects get assigned to ammunitions. Ammunitions are assigned to weapons. Weapons are assigned to infantry units.
[/list]
Vehicles are more tricky for me to balance will still allowing creative freedom because there's a large realm of things to consider because vehicles are of differing size, ability, speed, health, purpose, ect.
[u]Vehicle[/u]
[list]
[*]Every vehicle unit has a type which is flying, hover, sea, or land.
[*]Compartmental design, a vehicle consists of the critical mass (chassis/body), addons, and detail components.
[*][highlight][b]*[/b][/highlight]You must design both the critical mass and the critical components (wheel, engine, rotor, ect) and place them in a legitimate place. You aren't required to animate them, but you will be given a minor flag if they aren't animated.
[*]The main bounding polygon (notice not a box) is automatically computed and the critical component(s) must attach to it. The critical components are considered your vehicles weakest spots and must also be on the bounding polygon edge. Again, if the area of the polygon is too small, too large your vehicle will be flagged. If your vehicle forms acute angles it will be split into multiple polygons, in which case the total area is considered. Too many acute angles and you may have to revise your design to be more plausible (this rarely happens and usually looks bad anyways if it does).
[*]After reading the above point you might've thought "Well what if I want a wheel in the middle of my vehicle for some unicycle thingymabob?". In that case use detail props which do not contribute to the bounding box and are usually used for things like antenna, grates, ect. The detail prop can form the cover over the wheel and form the bottom of the chassis [i]visually[/i] while the bounding polygon is actually not considering it.
[*]Vehicles have addon points which are used to place things like turrets, supply drops, armor plates, cargo holds, missles, and other functional things. Each addon will take up a certain amount of points depending on how powerful it is. Some have recharge times ect. Certain addons that are meant to be externally placed (like a turret) will be checked for bullet traces [b]before[/b] the main bounding polygon. You can still make it [i]visually[/i] to be guarded. If your vehicle contains an external addon that is deemed to be completely invisible pixel wise or placement wise, it will be flagged.
[*]Vehicles have vehicle points that are used to attribute things like overall hitpoints and speed. There is a speed limit though. Other things may be added later.
[*]Possible AI states depend on the addons given and type of vehicle
[*]Might've forgetten something will add later if I have
[/list]
[b]Map Designer[/b]
[list]
[*]Map base is a large png image.
[*]Collision is automatically detected
[*][highlight][b]*[/b][/highlight]Mapper must design both the visual layer (png image) and the material layer which is a color coded png image that tells the engine what pixel is what material. (wood provides poor cover and may be destructible depending on what the artists masks it as while metal is good cover and usually indestructible)
[*]Entities are placed that can range from detail entities to functional entities.
[*]Detail entities make up small details that should be drawn in the foreground or background and do not block bullet traces or visibility.
[*]Functional entities make up things that move and are alive like doors, switches, lights, trams, ect. Water is also a functional entity.
[*]Trigger entities are simply invisible boxs or polygons that make something happen, do damage, ect. Gameplay elements also factor into this category such as capture zones, drop off zones, ect.
[*]Map rules and properties configure stuff like overall lighting, pixel material mask properties, and other things.
[*]Tools for making everything is there, including MS paint functionality and then some.
[/list]
Absolutely everything on these lists may be subject to change and are open to your suggestions.
[b]User Suggestions[/b] [i]Keep these in mind as you post; do you like them or dislike them?[/i]
[list]
[*]Simple game rule programing. Made in an easy to understand language like lua or maybe a custom one. This way you can make your own gametypes completely instead of having just toggable options when you make a server (like a zombie wars gametype or something)
[*]Unit user created special abilities, programmable maybe with lua for creating things like sandbags and so on. (Maybe a toggle option for server owners if they want to allow/disallow this)
[/list]
I realize that making an actual game out of this, even while very dynamic, will still restrict you from having absolute control over events like painting each frame individually. Despite this, I feel that it creates more possibilities and adds more overall than it takes away. You still have control over practically everything from your armies looks to their behavior which gives you a solid sense character and the ability to compete in a balanced environment amongst other designers.
What do you guys think, if I could design this to be exactly the way you want it, would you use it? Already done before? Too much? Too little?
I would love it. If you could make your own armies and animate them.
Would it be Isometric or side view?
Also there should be code people can add. Like some units can make turrets or sand bags.
[editline]10:30PM[/editline]
If you need a mapper ask me. I best spartan apples would be up to it as well.
Some parts do seem a little complicated, though I would not mind trying it out still.
This is a perfect Idea!
I was already making animated sprites for one of my characters, this came at the perfect time :D
Its like a 2D Side scrolling shooter with multiple characters on each team.
you should make it so you can have one character only as well, as an option A melee animation should be [I]allowed[/I] as well, not required of course, but it would be good for infections and "middle age" armies. or maybe just someone with a melee weapon.
Maybe a way to insert your sprites either individually or as a sheet if you already have one and don't want to make a new army? Like say, a way to copy a sprite from an MSPaint document and paste it in the editor?
[QUOTE=kevinseven;21495826]I would love it. If you could make your own armies and animate them.
Would it be Isometric or side view?
[/quote]
It would be like pixel wars is now, side view.
[QUOTE=kevinseven;21495826]Also there should be code people can add. Like some units can make turrets or sand bags.
[/quote]
Interesting, maybe I can add unit specializations where every unit can create one object and make an object designer along with the two other designers. I'll have to think on this, it does seem important.
[QUOTE=kevinseven;21495826]If you need a mapper ask me. I best spartan apples would be up to it as well.[/QUOTE]
It may be a while till I need any defaults just yet, but I'll definitely keep you on the list when I do.
[QUOTE=Shadowcat123;21495900]Some parts do seem a little complicated, though I would not mind trying it out still.[/QUOTE]
I'm trying to keep it as simple as I can while still keeping it possible and balanced. Could you point out which parts seemed complicated? My wording may make it seem more than it is.
Vehicles in general seem like they may be a pain to make from scratch. infantry seem to be some what the same as regular PW.
[QUOTE=Icebrigade;21496019]you should make it so you can have one character only as well, as an option A melee animation should be [I]allowed[/I] as well, not required of course, but it would be good for infections and "middle age" armies. or maybe just someone with a melee weapon.[/quote]
Intersting, I was thinking about making a basic game rule programming feature, maybe done so people could design game rules in lua. I will add this if enough people want it. I will however, allow for melee characters, good suggestion.
[QUOTE=Icebrigade;21496019]Maybe a way to insert your sprites either individually or as a sheet if you already have one and don't want to make a new army? Like say, a way to copy a sprite from an MSPaint document and paste it in the editor?[/QUOTE]
Well its easier than that actually. The army editor saves each unit you design separately (can import or design directly in the editor). You then assemble your army as a whole by selecting which units you want to be in a given army. Things like explosions, bullets, effects, ect will be automatically loaded. The sprite sheet is then automatically generated and sent to other players all behind the scenes.
[QUOTE=Shadowcat123;21496129]Vehicles in general seem like they may be a pain to make from scratch. infantry seem to be some what the same as regular PW.[/QUOTE]
I understand. Server owners can choose to make no vehicle servers. It's merely an option for those who do want to make vehicles.
Its a good idea.
But do you or anyone here have experience in coding?
[QUOTE=A Zombie;21496297]Its a good idea.
But do you or anyone here have experience in coding?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, notice in the OP I mentioned I'm looking for my "next project" (sort of implies a history). But yeah, I've been coding for a few years now and I also have an internship as a programmer. C/C++, web development, scripting, the works.
Ah, alright.
What were your previous projects?
[QUOTE=A Zombie;21496374]Ah, alright.
What were your previous projects?[/QUOTE]
Well I've made a lot of bare bones stuff, sort of like what Garry is doing with his game engine. I've made a networked 2d side scroller before, though its was more for learning than an actual product or anything. I'm sure I could find it on my old hard drive if you'd like to see it.
Played around with the unreal engine, still learning about it eventually I'll do something with it.
I worked with a few guys trying to make a source mod. We got pretty far, it was one of my earlier projects, but we never ended up finishing. It was supposed to be a coop mod with a bunch of cool features added to it.
As for web stuff, I've made a few web templates and for class I've made a movie database that lets you login, search, and rate movies. Never really went live since it would just drown amongst the many other movie websites.
Awesome.
It would be awesome if like, in game you could upload your own armies, and then select the poses and stuff, or put paint itself into the game.
[editline]08:08PM[/editline]
And will you have to design aim up and aiming down as a requirement?
[QUOTE=Mcpawz;21497417]It would be awesome if like, in game you could upload your own armies, and then select the poses and stuff, or put paint itself into the game.[/quote]
I'll take this into consideration, I see what you're saying.
[QUOTE=Mcpawz;21497417]
And will you have to design aim up and aiming down as a requirement?[/QUOTE]
I suppose I should be more specific, I'll adjust that section now.
My plan was to have the arms and the body separate (right and left arm would each be separate as well), the designer would take you through it.
For crouching/idling its easy, the designer will just ask you for the arm socket position which you can line up by eye. For running/walking/jumping you'll have to go by each frame and pick the socket position, still fairly simple. From there, the engine will just adjust the arms for you.
So it's going to be incredibly similar to Cortex Command?
[QUOTE=40kplayer;21497748]So it's going to be incredibly similar to Cortex Command?[/QUOTE]
Although I do like CC and there are similarities, the underlying goal and design basis is very different and I don't plan to make the environment quite that destructible. Plus I don't like the physically simulated motion he has on characters never felt stable.
The goal here is to let users put their creations into motion and in competition against one another which will hopefully result in an entertaining and fluid battle scene as well as some good ol' competition.
Plus cortex command is a pain in the ass to mod.
The properly biggest problem I see would be how you design units, there wouldn't there be problems in designating the units weaponry and armor type?
And it'd remove all the crazy shit included in regular pw, like ships crashing though bunkers and stuff.
Keep in mind that you're dealing with a game that where the map can change in just about any way imaginable. You can get anything from a simple hole in the ground to a building collapsing.
That too, especially the collapsing buildings part.
[QUOTE=ReconUnit;21497856]The properly biggest problem I see would be how you design units, there wouldn't there be problems in designating the units weaponry and armor type?[/quote]
Well what do you mean exactly? Armor only really applies to tanks. Otherwise armor would just be an infantry stat, you can choose to visually represent the armor or not. As for weapons, that will be apart of the infantry designer. Actually give me a moment to edit the OP, I want to add more to the infantry designer list to include specifics about weapons and effects.
[QUOTE=ReconUnit;21497856]And it'd remove all the crazy shit included in regular pw, like ships crashing though bunkers and stuff.[/QUOTE]
That's why I'm trying to allow semi-controled destruction. The goal for the map designer is to let the mapper choose what can be destroyed and what cannot. If a bunker is to be destroyed, the mapper may have to design gibs as well as the background of the destroyed bunker. So ultimately you can still have that, the only limits would be those set forth by the map designer.
[editline]04:52AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Aredbomb;21497900]Keep in mind that you're dealing with a game that where the map can change in just about any way imaginable. You can get anything from a simple hole in the ground to a building collapsing.[/QUOTE]
Well a decision has to be made. While I'm all for destruction. How does one handle players who may try to do stupid things like dig holes just for the fun of it? Should I allow free form destruction similar to cortex command? I could make it difficult to blow holes in the ground. Like certain materials will only give way if something very powerful hits it, like a ship crashing.
The thing with this is, the mapper may have to design another layer (the destroyed layer) to show up when parts of the map are destroyed.
Guess that's a valid solution, but, I bet we're gonna see 3 frame animations everywhere due to lazy people.
(For you unknowing, a 2d animation is made out of several "frames" of the same picture, a 3 frame animation would be like,
*Unit stand with left foot foward* > *Lifts left foot* > *stands like the first frame*)
[QUOTE=ReconUnit;21497987]Guess that's a valid solution, but, I bet we're gonna see 3 frame animations everywhere due to lazy people.
(For you unknowing, a 2d animation is made out of several "frames" of the same picture, a 3 frame animation would be like,
*Unit stand with left foot foward* > *Lifts left foot* > *stands like the first frame*)[/QUOTE]
Haha, that will most likely happen, but you can always boot players who have crap sets. Wouldn't you be willing to spend more time on something you know other people are going to be seeing though? I'd say about 4-6 frames would be good.
Either way, if I do something like CC where you design the limbs and the engine makes the animation for you then you'll loose that custom feel. Not to mention it will limit people to human animations instead of crazy shit like aliens.
Aka my aliens armies would walk silly compared to their bodies. :v:
Awesome can I be a tester?
Its not even been developed yet, its currently just an idea.
like turnbased cortex command?
This isn't turnbased, its in real time.
I don't believe you have enough experience to do this, especially on your own. However, go ahead and I will support you as much as everyone else. I'll attempt to read your thread when time isn't throttling me.
Also, XCIV note that PW isn't just guns, its everything from ancient to future.
[editline]08:39PM[/editline]
[QUOTE='[ApS] Elf;21502036']I don't believe you have enough experience to do this, especially on your own. However, go ahead and I will support you as much as everyone else. I'll attempt to read your thread when time isn't throttling me.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't underestimate him.
Wouldn't work that well really. You're better off making just another 2d rts.
What you are doing is essentially taking the most boring armies (the men with guns kind) and shoving them into a game.
If you had somehow managed to allow the players to make different armies, like, an army of butterflies that simply suck the juices out of you, or a giant archanid that spawns smaller spiders.
IF you somehow managed to capture the spirit of pw in an .exe or similar, then I salute you.
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