Justices, 5-4, Tell California to Cut Prisoner Population by more than 30,000
109 replies, posted
[quote]WASHINGTON — Conditions in California’s overcrowded prisons are so bad that they violate the Eighth Amendment’s ban on cruel and unusual punishment, the Supreme Court ruled on Monday, ordering the state to reduce its prison population by more than 30,000 inmates. Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, writing for the majority in a 5-to-4 decision that broke along ideological lines, described a prison system that failed to deliver minimal care to prisoners with serious medical and mental health problems and produced “needless suffering and death.”
Justices Antonin Scalia and Samuel A. Alito Jr. filed vigorous dissents. Justice Scalia called the order affirmed by the majority “perhaps the most radical injunction issued by a court in our nation’s history.” Justice Alito said “the majority is gambling with the safety of the people of California.”
The majority opinion included photographs of inmates crowded into open gymnasium-style rooms and what Justice Kennedy described as “telephone-booth-sized cages without toilets” used to house suicidal inmates. Suicide rates in the state’s prisons, Justice Kennedy wrote, have been 80 percent higher than the average for inmates nationwide. A lower court in the case said it was “an uncontested fact” that “an inmate in one of California’s prisons needlessly dies every six or seven days due to constitutional deficiencies.”
Monday’s ruling in the case, Brown v. Plata, No. 09-1233, affirmed an order by a special three-judge federal court requiring state officials to reduce the prison population to 110,000, which is 137.5 percent of the system’s capacity. There have been more than 160,000 inmates in the system in recent years, and there are now more than 140,000.
Prison release orders are rare and hard to obtain, and even advocates for prisoners’ rights said Monday’s decision was unlikely to have a significant impact around the nation.
“California is an extreme case by any measure,” said David C. Fathi, director of the American Civil Liberties Union’s National Prison Project, which submitted a brief urging the justices to uphold the lower court’s order. “This case involves ongoing, undisputed and lethal constitutional violations. We’re not going to see a lot of copycat litigation.”
State officials in California will have two years to comply with the order, and they may ask for more time. Justice Kennedy emphasized that the reduction in population need not be achieved solely by releasing prisoners early. Among the other possibilities, he said, are new construction, transfers out of state and using county facilities.
At the same time, Justice Kennedy, citing the lower court decision, said there was “no realistic possibility that California would be able to build itself out of this crisis,” in light of the state’s financial problems.
The court’s more liberal members — Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen G. Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan — joined Justice Kennedy’s opinion.
The special court’s decision, issued in 2009, addressed two consolidated class-action suits, one filed in 1990, the other in 2001. In 2006, Arnold Schwarzenegger, then governor, said conditions in the state’s prisons amounted to a state of emergency.
The majority seemed persuaded that the passage of time required the courts to act.
Justice Scalia summarized his dissent, which was pungent and combative, from the bench. Oral dissents are rare; this was the second of the term. Justice Kennedy looked straight ahead as his colleague spoke, his face frozen in a grim expression.
The decision was the fourth 5-to-4 decision of the term so far. All four of them have found the court’s more liberal members on one side and its more conservative members on the other, with Justice Kennedy’s swing vote the conclusive one. In the first three cases, Justice Kennedy sided with the conservatives.
On Monday, he went the other way. This was in some ways unsurprising: in his opinions and in speeches, Justice Kennedy has long been critical of what he views as excessively long and harsh sentences.
“A prison that deprives prisoners of basic sustenance, including adequate medical care, is incompatible with the concept of human dignity and has no place in civilized society,” Justice Kennedy wrote on Monday. In his dissent, Justice Scalia wrote that the majority opinion was an example of the problem of courts’ overstepping their constitutional authority and institutional expertise in issuing “structural injunctions” in “institutional-reform litigation” rather than addressing legal violations one by one. He added that the prisoners receiving inadequate care were not necessarily the ones who would be released early.
“Most of them will not be prisoners with medical conditions or severe mental illness,” Justice Scalia wrote, “and many will undoubtedly be fine physical specimens who have developed intimidating muscles pumping iron in the prison gym.”
In his statement from the bench, Justice Scalia said that the prisoners to be released “are just 46,000 happy-go-lucky felons fortunate enough to be selected.” (The justices used varying numbers in describing the number of affected prisoners. California’s prison population has been declining.)
Justice Kennedy concluded his majority opinion by saying that the lower court should be flexible in considering how to carry out its order.
Justice Scalia called this concluding part of the majority opinion “a bizarre coda” setting forth “a deliberately ambiguous set of suggestions on how to modify the injunction.”
“Perhaps,” he went on, “the coda is nothing more than a ceremonial washing of the hands — making it clear for all to see, that if the terrible things sure to happen as a consequence of this outrageous order do happen, they will be none of this court’s responsibility. After all, did we not want, and indeed even suggest, something better?”
Justice Clarence Thomas joined Justice Scalia’s dissent.
In a second dissent, Justice Alito, joined by Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., addressed what he said would be the inevitable impact of the majority decision on public safety in California.
He summarized the decision this way, adding italics for emphasis: “The three-judge court ordered the premature release of approximately 46,000 criminals — the equivalent of three Army divisions.”
Justice Alito acknowledged that “particular prisoners received shockingly deficient medical care.” But, he added, “such anecdotal evidence cannot be given undue weight” in light of the sheer size of California’s prison system, which was at its height “larger than that of many medium-sized cities” like Bridgeport, Conn.; Eugene, Ore.; and Savannah, Ga.
“I fear that today’s decision, like prior prisoner-release orders, will lead to a grim roster of victims,” Justice Alito wrote. “I hope that I am wrong. In a few years, we will see.”[/quote]
Source: [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24scotus.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp[/url]
This is a surprising ruling, not only just because of a more conservative member joining the liberal side, but also because the majority of the court feels that it is better to let prisoners go than to subject them to cruel and unusual punishment. I agree with this ruling.
So rather than create more prisons, they would rather criminals just be let go? That doesn't seem very logical.
[QUOTE=HolyCrusade;30017336]So rather than create more prisons, they would rather criminals just be let go? That doesn't seem very logical.[/QUOTE]
In case you haven't realized, California's going bankrupt. The last thing we need is MORE prisons anyhow.
I would definitely rather have all the people with non-violent drug convictions go free than have them in a broken prison system.
[QUOTE=HolyCrusade;30017336]So rather than create more prisons, they would rather criminals just be let go? That doesn't seem very logical.[/QUOTE]
as if most people in jail are actually dangerous
[QUOTE=Lazor;30017434]as if most people in jail are actually dangerous[/QUOTE]
i seriously doubt they would let out high risk offenders anyways
I think the president should pardon all non violent drug offenders from prison.
[QUOTE=Lazor;30017434]as if most people in jail are actually dangerous[/QUOTE]
The majority are. Yes, there are a bunch of minor drug offenders and petty criminals in prisons, but they never have long sentences.
[QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;30017566]The majority are. Yes, there are a bunch of minor drug offenders and petty criminals in prisons, but they never have long sentences.[/QUOTE]
Uh, that isn't close to true. They give people insane sentences for drug related charges sometimes just because they can.
Scalia dissenting on a civil rights case? Wow, next someone's going to tell me there's 24 hours in a day.
[QUOTE=CjienX;30017588]Uh, that isn't close to true. They give people insane sentences for drug related charges sometimes just because they can.[/QUOTE]
Yes, once in a while to "make an example", but it just doesn't happen as often as it is perpetuated.
[QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;30017566]The majority are. Yes, there are a bunch of minor drug offenders and petty criminals in prisons, but they never have long sentences.[/QUOTE]
7.9% of sentenced prisoners in federal prisons on September 30, 2009 were in for violent crimes. 52.4% of sentenced prisoners in state prisons at year end 2008 were in for violent crimes. 21.6% of convicted inmates in jails in 2002 (latest available data by type of offense) were in for violent crimes. Among unconvicted inmates in jails in 2002, 34% had a violent offense as the most serious charge. 41% percent of convicted and unconvicted jail inmates in 2002 had a current or prior violent offense; 46% were nonviolent recidivists.
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States]Source[/url]
Overall (including both federal and state prisons together), it looks like you're wrong
Just set up tents in the middle of nowhere and have them live there.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];30018335']Just set up tents in the middle of nowhere and have them live there.[/QUOTE]
or stop jailing people for minor drug offenses
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30018312]7.9% of sentenced prisoners in federal prisons on September 30, 2009 were in for violent crimes. 52.4% of sentenced prisoners in state prisons at year end 2008 were in for violent crimes. 21.6% of convicted inmates in jails in 2002 (latest available data by type of offense) were in for violent crimes. Among unconvicted inmates in jails in 2002, 34% had a violent offense as the most serious charge. 41% percent of convicted and unconvicted jail inmates in 2002 had a current or prior violent offense; 46% were nonviolent recidivists.
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States]Source[/url]
Overall (including both federal and state prisons together), it looks like you're wrong[/QUOTE]
So you're assuming that because they weren't convicted for a violent crime they aren't dangerous? Ever heard of plea deals? Not to mention that some hard drug addict going through withdrawals and trying to keep his habit alive is just as dangerous as any convicted murderer.
[QUOTE=HolyCrusade;30017336]So rather than create more prisons, they would rather criminals just be let go? That doesn't seem very logical.[/QUOTE]
They'll probably let go of like, the...least...violent of offenders? Like marijuana users or something
Looks like it's time to take ol' sparky out of retirement. :clint:
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30018375]or stop jailing people for minor drug offenses[/QUOTE]
or ANY nonviolent crimes for that matter. incarceration should only be used as a last resort
when will america realize this
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30018312]52.4% of sentenced prisoners in state prisons at year end 2008 were in for violent crimes.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the info Zeke.
Here JDK721 here is your citation.
[QUOTE=Canesfan;30018433]Not to mention that some hard drug addict going through withdrawals and trying to keep his habit alive is just as dangerous as any convicted murderer.[/QUOTE]
no, not really
[QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;30018516]Thanks for the info Zeke.
Here JDK721 here is your citation.[/QUOTE]
52% is pushing the envelope of what one would actually consider a true majority. You could let nearly half the prison population free and still have not released a single person that was sentenced for a violent crime.
[QUOTE=OvB;30018550]52% is pushing the envelope of what one would actually consider a true majority. You could let nearly half the prison population free and still have not released a single person that was sentenced for a violent crime.[/QUOTE]
How is 52% not a majority.
Last I checked a quorum was 51%.
[QUOTE=Canesfan;30018433] Not to mention that some hard drug addict going through withdrawals and trying to keep his habit alive is just as dangerous as any convicted murderer.[/QUOTE]
ummmmmm
no
question: do you actually know anything?
[QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;30018516]Thanks for the info Zeke.
Here JDK721 here is your citation.[/QUOTE]
Did you not read the rest
The total number would be less than 50%
[QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;30018568]How is 52% not a majority.
Last I checked a quorum was 51%.[/QUOTE]
did you even read his post or what
[QUOTE=Lazor;30018581]did you even read his post or what[/QUOTE]
He seems to think that federal prisons don't count for some reason
for that 7.9% to not bring the total down below 50% there'd have to be only like 1000 people in federal prisons
[QUOTE=Lazor;30018581]did you even read his post or what[/QUOTE]
Of course not.
[QUOTE=JDK721;30018502]or ANY nonviolent crimes for that matter. incarceration should only be used as a last resort
when will america realize this[/QUOTE]
I've disagreed with a lot of things you've said, but wow. Last resort? So lowlives that steal cars, property, etc. or drink and drive putting the lives of EVERYONE around them at risk should just be fined and slapped on the hand? Look at a couple nonviolent crimes-
[QUOTE=http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=485073]
28-BURGLARY, STRUCTURE
29-BURGLARY, DWELLING
32-BURGLARY/TRESPASS, OTHER
33-GRAND THEFT, OTHER
34-GRAND THEFT, AUTOMOBILE
35-STOLEN PROPERTY
36-FORGERY/COUNTERFEITING
37-WORTHLESS CHECKS
38-FRAUDULENT PRACTICES
39-OTHER THEFT/PROPERTY DAMAGE
40-DRUGS, MANUFACTURE/SALE/PURCHASE
41-DRUGS, TRAFFICKING
42-DRUGS, POSSESSION/OTHER
46-ESCAPE
48-DUI, NO INJURY
50-TRAFFIC, OTHER
51-RACKETEERING
52-POLLUTION/HAZARDOUS MATERIALS[/QUOTE]
I mean what's so bad about racketeering, DUI, and car theft? Just fine em and "rehabilitate" em, right? There are a couple cases here where prison is extreme, yes, but saying ALL nonviolent crimes should be punished with prison only as a last resort is probably the dumbest idea i've heard in a long time. Prison, unlike the death penalty, is undeniably a deterrent. The day America "realizes this" is the day I leave.
[QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;30017566]The majority are. Yes, there are a bunch of minor drug offenders and petty criminals in prisons, but they never have long sentences.[/QUOTE]
Statistically, drug offenders spend more time in jail than rapists, murderers, and theives. You can get a severe sentence for being a repeat offender by just "possessing". You can get your life ruined for that. You sell it to anyone, even in a minor sense like a dimebag to a friend or something, you can get an even worse sentence now that you're a drug trafficker.
Fuck sakes.
[quote]I've disagreed with a lot of things you've said, but wow. Last resort? So lowlives that steal cars, property, etc. or drink and drive putting the lives of EVERYONE around them at risk should just be fined and slapped on the hand? Look at a couple nonviolent crimes-[/quote]
hey guess what genius boy
we don't live in a world constructed of false dichotomies like the one you just presented. there's another alternative known as REHABILITATION and is far more effective than sticking someone in a fucking jail cell
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