• Former senior military officers: No war crimes found to be committed by Israel in 2014 conflict "Pro
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[url]http://blog.unwatch.org/index.php/2015/06/12/key-findings-of-the-high-level-international-military-group-on-the-gaza-conflict/[/url] [img]http://i.imgur.com/Vfeg8eB.png[/img] Key preliminary findings on the 2014 Gaza Conflict by a high level international military group as submitted to the UN Human Rights Council’s Commission of Inquiry, which is expected to issue its report next week. [url]http://blog.unwatch.org/index.php/2015/06/12/key-findings-of-the-high-level-international-military-group-on-the-gaza-conflict/[/url] [quote]From 18th – 22nd May 2015, the High Level International Military Group, [b]made up of 11 former chiefs of staff, generals, senior officers, political leaders and officials from the United States, Germany, the United Kingdom, Holland, Spain, Italy, Australia and Colombia [/b]visited Israel for a fact-finding mission on the 2014 Gaza conflict. We were led by General Klaus Naumann, former Chief of Staff of the Bundeswehr and Chairman of the NATO Military Committee, the most senior officer in the Alliance, and Giulio Terzi, former Foreign Minister of Italy. Also in the group were Ambassador Pierre-Richard Prosper, formerly US State Department Ambassador at Large for war crimes issues; and Mr Rafael Bardaji, former National Security Adviser to the Government of Spain. This was part of a longer term project by our group, whose principal concern is how civilian lives can be protected and military forces can fight effectively when operations must be conducted in a densely packed civilian area. We will be producing a full report this autumn. Our findings lead us to the opposite conclusion. [b]We examined the circumstances that led to the tragic conflict last summer and are in no doubt that this was not a war that Israel wanted. In reality Israel sought to avoid the conflict and exercised great restraint over a period of months before the war when its citizens were targeted by sporadic rocket attacks from Gaza.Once the war had begun, Israel made repeated efforts to terminate the fighting. The war that Israel was eventually compelled to fight against Hamas and other Gaza extremists was a legitimate war, necessary to defend its citizens and its territory against sustained attack from beyond its borders.[/b] We were briefed on the IDF’s strict procedures and standards for confirming the validity of a military target and the presence or absence of civilians, and the stringent requirements for both military and legal authorisation to attack a target. We were briefed on some cases where the IDF declined to attack known military targets due to the presence of civilians, risking, and in some instances costing, Israeli lives. Measures taken to warn civilians included phone calls, SMS messages, leaflet drops, radio broadcasts, communication via Gaza-based UN staff and the detonation of harmless warning explosive charges, known as “knock on the roof”. Where possible the IDF sought also to give guidance on safe areas and safe routes. We were briefed on the IDF’s proportionality principles and calculations used in circumstances where an attack was likely to result in civilian deaths. We believe that in general Israeli forces acted proportionately as required by the laws of armed conflict and often went beyond the required legal principles of proportionality, necessity and discrimination. [/quote] [url=http://www.israeltoday.co.il/Default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=26792]This article is the same thing[/url], except easier to read. But I didn't want to post it because it's "IsraelToday" which isn't exactly the epitome of journalistic balance. Nevertheless, the fucking UN posted this. If this doesn't sway your opinion about this conflict even the least bit, nothing will.
Using a pro-Israel advocacy blog as a source? Anyways, lets cut through the bullshit and look at the 1st page of the 6 page (lol) pdf. First of all it's not UN led. [quote]The following members of the High Level International Military Group visited Israel to examine the conduct of the 2014 Gaza conflict from 18–22 May 2015. [b]This is a project sponsored by the Friends of Israel Initiative[/b][/quote] [url]http://blog.unwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/HLIMG-report-cover-letter-to-Judge-Mary-McGowan-Davis-UNHRC-31-May-2015.pdf[/url] Sounds partial, a report that was put together by the "Friends of Israel Initiative". The fact that they're former military-men doesn't mean anything when they've been carefully hand-selected by an organization with an agenda.
also [QUOTE]UN Watch is a non-governmental organization based in Geneva whose mandate is to monitor the performance of the United Nations by the yardstick of its own charter. UN Watch is [B]affiliated[/B] with the [B]American Jewish Committee[/B].[/QUOTE] UN Watch is not an organ of UN
I think we can get an accurate assessment of what happened if we combine this report from the Friends of Israel Initiative with the one from the Friends of Hamas Initiative, the biases should cancel out.
[QUOTE=Lamar;48014451]I think we can get an accurate assessment of what happened if we combine this report from the Friends of Israel Initiative with the one from the Friends of Hamas Initiative, the biases should cancel out.[/QUOTE] So will the facts.
What a world of corruption we live in...
[QUOTE=Lamar;48014334]Using a pro-Israel advocacy blog as a source? Anyways, lets cut through the bullshit and look at the 1st page of the 6 page (lol) "report". First of all it's not UN led. [url]http://blog.unwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/HLIMG-report-cover-letter-to-Judge-Mary-McGowan-Davis-UNHRC-31-May-2015.pdf[/url] Sounds partial, a report that was put together by the "Friends of Israel Initiative". The fact that they're military-men doesn't mean anything when they've been carefully hand-selected by an organization with an agenda.[/QUOTE] lmao what the fuck UN watch is being discredited now as an "advocacy blog" because they're partially funded by some jews? (no shit, it's a non-profit organization that relies entirely on donations as well as having "the fight against antisemitism" as its [u]openly[/u] stated co-goal so obviously they're going to focus more on the israeli-palestinian conflict) UN watch isn't some shady backwater blog nobody listens to, they are an actual world-renowned two decade old organization inseparable to the UN. anywhere the UN goes, they go. they are present in almost every UNHRC hearing. they were partially responsible for uncovering the whole UN rape fiasco where UN soldiers went around raping, abusing and exploiting entire villages across africa several years ago. they were the ones that went against the swiss minaret ban some years ago which basically meant the banning of all mosques so they are more partial than most other organizations with an alleged "agenda" in mind. just lmao at this forum seriously [editline]21st June 2015[/editline] everything is a lie, all these former and current military men were carefully hand-picked by the jewish reptilians to try and sway the public opinion of israel, the home of the aforementioned reptilians. these same military men probably did 9/11 too!
people from their current countries cant defend their countries sometimes you are from australia, you are not allowed to discuss australia ever, you are as biased as you could possibly be do you hear how retarded this sounds
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;48014875]When discussing war crimes relating to a conflict your country is heavily criticised and you post third party information, present it at first party information and then weave a narrative to say "yeah nothing wrong you lot are morons for not agreeing" you shouldn't be surprised when people think you are a cunt [editline]21st June 2015[/editline] Same reason Russians get told off for sucking putins dick and defending them fucking up Ukraine while also denying Russia has any involvement[/QUOTE] Because Israel is just like Russia :rolleyes: Israel doesn't have rigged elections, journalists aren't gunned down for speaking out against the government, the Israeli government doesn't seize the assets of foreign owned companies, the country isn't run by Mossad, do I need to go on? They're not comparable in any way.
[QUOTE=download;48015114]Because Israel is just like Russia :rolleyes: Israel doesn't have rigged elections, journalists aren't gunned down for speaking out against the government, the Israeli government doesn't seize the assets of foreign owned companies, the country isn't run by Mossad, do I need to go on? They're not comparable in any way.[/QUOTE] But he wasn't comparing the countries? He's comparing the people that blindly defend their country's bad actions using the recent Russian conflict as an example.
[QUOTE]and the detonation of [B]harmless [/B]warning explosive charges, known as “knock on the roof”. [/QUOTE] Haven't there been at least 5 SH threads (that I can remember) detailing people killed by the warning rockets?
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;48015298]You really don't ever read do you, as elec said I'm comparing those that blindly defend their country and enforce their own bias in stupid situations. Like yourself in the gun debate, and somewhat like myself in the gun debate. Everyone has bias, the idea is not to let it influence you to a degree that makes you push your views on others which sadly OP has attempted to do.[/QUOTE] implying i blindly defend my country i'm one of the biggest critics of my own country, the living cost is fucking ridiculous, the immigration is an increasing problem as well as a burden, the lack of feasible perspectives for a proper future is exhausting. i could write pages about shit like this. but you fucking know what? after being pro-palestine, and being pro-israel, then going back to palestine back and forth for years i finally learned that our fucking hands are tied in this conflict and anyone who believes that israel does what it does out of pure spite, hatred or some form of coherent evil is flat out retarded. they are the same caliber of people who don't eat meat because they watched some 2x4 pixel video of some cow being slaughtered. the same people who choose emotions over fact because it's more convenient and makes them look holier to everyone else around them. it's bullshit, because it's simply not true. but then people like me get lumped in with stupid shit like the JIDF and tell me i'm biased because i'm from here, but fuck you, i don't resort to posting shitty articles and shitty arguments like this for the sake of it, but rather because people like you force my hand with your dumb fucking rhetoric of absolutely unproportionate, ridiculous, almost fantasy-like standards that you apply to israel. put any other damned country in israel's position, in its 70 year conflict, and you start to feel really, really dumb for thinking israel is handling it worse than they could on purpose. i'm not even mad or flaming here, i'm just trying to get through to you.
UN Watch is not "UN-led" as the title previously suggested and to consider UN Watch as credible in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is akin to saying Israel's internal investigations are genuine entity in assessing whether Israel has committed war crimes. While "UN Watch" has done work in other fields, they are first and foremast an Israel-advocacy organization. Their Chair, Alfred H. Moses was the president of the American Jewish Committee and their Executive Director was the Supreme Court clerk for the Israeli Supreme Court. They are not impartial. [editline]20th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Melnek;48014748]everything is a lie, all these former and current military men were carefully hand-picked by the jewish reptilians to try and sway the public opinion of israel, the home of the aforementioned reptilians. these same military men probably did 9/11 too![/QUOTE] Stop posting like this.
[QUOTE=Melnek;48015470]implying i blindly defend my country[/QUOTE] I can sympathize with you after reading all that, it must be difficult for you, living in Israel while reading the SH section with its views extremely skewed in both directions and with little middle ground. However, it was still a major mistake to label this declaration as a direct product of the UN when it wasn't. Even if UN Watch is "inseparable" from the UN, that doesn't make it the UN. What happened here is that an organization which appears primarily sympathetic to Israel (nothing inherently wrong with that) has funded and carried out its own inquiry with the cooperation of officials from mostly NATO nations (also highly sympathetic to Israel for good reason) which have compiled a report which they will send to the UN for review, as the latter organization is preparing its own report. Even if UN Watch is biased, that doesn't make it automatically wrong or untrustworthy. However, acting as if their conclusions are indisputable, as you seemed to imply with the line "If this doesn't sway your opinion about this conflict even the least bit, nothing will," was an incendiary statement. Those of us in the middle on this issue are still waiting for the final report.
[QUOTE=Melnek;48014748] everything is a lie, all these former and current military men were carefully hand-picked by the jewish reptilians to try and sway the public opinion of israel, the home of the aforementioned reptilians. these same military men probably did 9/11 too![/QUOTE] This makes you look pretty damn silly just so you know
[QUOTE=Melnek;48015470]implying i blindly defend my country[/QUOTE] Implying you don't when it comes to Israel's foreign policy. You're constantly trying to vindicate your government's actions and it just isn't working. [quote]i'm one of the biggest critics of my own country, the living cost is fucking ridiculous, the immigration is an increasing problem as well as a burden, the lack of feasible perspectives for a proper future is exhausting. i could write pages about shit like this.[/quote] These are all problems that affect you directly and are practically unrelated to Gaza/Palestine
[QUOTE=Morbo!!!;48016080]These are all problems that affect you directly and are practically unrelated to Gaza/Palestine[/QUOTE] It is disingenuous when Israelis claim they "criticize" their government while debating Israel's policies in the occupied territories. They are against their government when it directly affects themselves only; not when it oppresses other people.
[QUOTE=Melnek;48015470]implying i blindly defend my country i'm one of the biggest critics of my own country, the living cost is fucking ridiculous, the immigration is an increasing problem as well as a burden, the lack of feasible perspectives for a proper future is exhausting. i could write pages about shit like this. but you fucking know what? after being pro-palestine, and being pro-israel, then going back to palestine back and forth for years i finally learned that our fucking hands are tied in this conflict and anyone who believes that israel does what it does out of pure spite, hatred or some form of coherent evil is flat out retarded. they are the same caliber of people who don't eat meat because they watched some 2x4 pixel video of some cow being slaughtered. the same people who choose emotions over fact because it's more convenient and makes them look holier to everyone else around them. it's bullshit, because it's simply not true. but then people like me get lumped in with stupid shit like the JIDF and tell me i'm biased because i'm from here, but fuck you, i don't resort to posting shitty articles and shitty arguments like this for the sake of it, but rather because people like you force my hand with your dumb fucking rhetoric of absolutely unproportionate, ridiculous, almost fantasy-like standards that you apply to israel. put any other damned country in israel's position, in its 70 year conflict, and you start to feel really, really dumb for thinking israel is handling it worse than they could on purpose. i'm not even mad or flaming here, i'm just trying to get through to you.[/QUOTE] Are you for real Oooooh boy where do we even start. So far you have: Tried to pass a 3rd party Israeli-led UN watch group group as an official affiliate of the UN. Straw-manned everyone opposing you into conspiracy theorists . Refused to acknowledge nationalism as a possible factor at all (while simultaneously complaining about immigration, might I add). Insulted vegans and vegetarians for choosing not to eat meat on a moral basis as if it's somehow a bad thing (where the fuck did this even come from). And finally, refuse to criticize Israel for war crimes because "they are doing the best they can". I'm feeling we got a bit of a nationalist here...
melnek is facepunch's anti-lamar , his posting history makes that quite obvious. [sp]although lamar at least tends to use legit and trustworthy sources[/sp] :v:
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;48016750]melnek is facepunch's anti-lamar , his posting history makes that quite obvious. [sp]although lamar at least tends to use legit and trustworthy sources[/sp] :v:[/QUOTE] I thought monkah had that title, surprised he isn't here yet it's always genuinely interesting to see two blinded sides fight
[QUOTE=Lamar;48014334]Using a pro-Israel advocacy blog as a source? Anyways, lets cut through the bullshit and look at the 1st page of the 6 page (lol) pdf. First of all it's not UN led. [url]http://blog.unwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/HLIMG-report-cover-letter-to-Judge-Mary-McGowan-Davis-UNHRC-31-May-2015.pdf[/url] Sounds partial, a report that was put together by the "Friends of Israel Initiative". The fact that they're former military-men doesn't mean anything when they've been carefully hand-selected by an organization with an agenda.[/QUOTE] but [quote]the High Level International Military Group, made up of 11 former chiefs of staff, generals, senior officers, political leaders and officials from the United States, Germany, the United Kingdom, Holland, Spain, Italy, Australia and Colombia [/quote] [editline]21st June 2015[/editline] I know facepunch hates israel because facepunch is full of liberal-beyound-common-sense people, but wow.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;48017473]but [editline]21st June 2015[/editline] I know facepunch hates israel because facepunch is full of liberal-beyound-common-sense people, but wow.[/QUOTE] but [QUOTE=Lamar;48014334]The fact that they're former military-men doesn't mean anything when they've been carefully hand-selected by an organization with an agenda.[/QUOTE]
The fact this article repeatedly refers to these people as "the High Level International Military Group" as if they are not some charade completely made-up on the spot by Friends of Israel is amusing. Almost as amusing as the fact that half of them come from nations that have condemned Israel's actions in the Gaza Strip, irrespective to what these hand-picked individuals believe.
Straight from wiki if some of you were lazy [QUOTE]Agence France-Presse has described UN Watch both as "a lobby group with strong ties to Israel"[17] and as a group which "champion[s] human rights worldwide".[/QUOTE] While not all bad, it can't be trusted to provide unbiased information when talking about Israel, just like starpluck said earlier
this just in, a group of pro-israel military officials support Israel.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;48014811]Oh hey an Israel flag You are literally as biased as you could possibly be, stop trying to push this shit with a third party UN watching group.[/QUOTE] He's probably using a Vpn to make it look like he's in Israel in order to troll better.
[QUOTE=coldroll5;48018462]He's probably using a Vpn to make it look like he's in Israel in order to troll better.[/QUOTE] Or he lives in Israel.
[QUOTE=Lone Wolf807;48018821]Or he lives in Israel.[/QUOTE] Whatever you say fellow american.
[QUOTE=coldroll5;48019511]Whatever you say Schöggeler.[/QUOTE] Rude.
[QUOTE=PsiSoldier;48019678]Rude.[/QUOTE] I was originally going to use a Swiss vpn but it wasn't working.
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