North Korea nuclear crisis: Putin warns of planetary catastrophe
18 replies, posted
[quote]The Russian president, Vladimir Putin, has warned that the escalating North Korean crisis could cause a “planetary catastrophe” and huge loss of life, and described US proposals for further sanctions on Pyongyang as “useless”.
“Ramping up military hysteria in such conditions is senseless; it’s a dead end,” he told reporters in China. “It could lead to a global, planetary catastrophe and a huge loss of human life. There is no other way to solve the North Korean nuclear issue, save that of peaceful dialogue.”
On Sunday, North Korea carried out its sixth and by far its most powerful nuclear test to date. The underground blast triggered a magnitude-6.3 earthquake and was more powerful than the bombs dropped by the US on Hiroshima and Nagasaki during the second world war.
Putin was attending the Brics summit, bringing together the leaders of Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa. Speaking on Tuesday, the final day of the summit in Xiamen, China, he said Russia condemned North Korea’s provocations but said further sanctions would be useless and ineffective, describing the measures as a “road to nowhere”.
Foreign interventions in Iraq and Libya had convinced the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-un, that he needed nuclear weapons to survive, Putin said.
“We all remember what happened with Iraq and Saddam Hussein. His children were killed, I think his grandson was shot, the whole country was destroyed and Saddam Hussein was hanged ... We all know how this happened and people in North Korea remember well what happened in Iraq.
“They will eat grass but will not stop their [nuclear] programme as long as they do not feel safe.”
A US bid for the United Nations security council to vote on 11 September on new sanctions is “a little premature,” Vassily Nebenzia, Russia’s UN ambassador, said on Tuesday. Russia is a permanent member of the security council and has veto power.
The US’s top diplomat acknowledged that more sanctions on North Korea are unlikely to change its behaviour, but insisted that they would cut off funding for its ballistic missile and nuclear programmes.
“Do we think more sanctions are going to work on North Korea? Not necessarily,” Nikki Haley, the US ambassador to the UN, told a thinktank in Washington. “But what does it do? It cuts off the revenue that allows them to build ballistic missiles.”[/quote]
[url]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/05/south-korea-minister-redeploying-us-nuclear-weapons-tensions-with-north[/url]
[QUOTE]Foreign interventions in Iraq and Libya had convinced the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-un, that he needed nuclear weapons to survive, Putin said.[/QUOTE]
if he wants to survive, maybe he shouldn't treat his people like human garbage and exercise constant aggression towards other countries. if NK proved to mommy and daddy that they're a good child and can actually be responsible, none of this would be happening.
[QUOTE=milktree;52651245]if he wants to survive, maybe he shouldn't treat his people like human garbage and exercise constant aggression towards other countries[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's weird. There are tons of countries out there without nukes that seem to get along just fine with the West. Surely we're just singling out NK for persecution!
What I want to know is if we should take Putin's word at face value or not. For all we know it's Russia pulling Kim's strings.
Putin is leaning towards NK just because it annoys the West.
Putin's diplomacy and reactions are all geared towards maximum West annoyance even if it's not his personal opinion. Throwing rocks in the gearbox.
Since when did Putin give a singular shit about human life?
Maybe you shouldn't have aided their nuclear program then you evil piece of shit.
I agree with Putin's statement, at the very least, more sanctions do nothing, as this forum has been saying again and again, and an escalation will be catastrophic.
Putin knows what he's talking about, even if his actions are pure bullshit.
We need to talk NK down and help their people and bring them into the light rather than kill everyone around them while sending the country back to the stone age.
How can we not see this, why are people so ready for violence in such a short time after WWII.
[QUOTE=Steel & Iron;52651258]What I want to know is if we should take Putin's word at face value or not. For all we know it's Russia pulling Kim's strings.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't trust Putin with anything.
If he was given the chance, he'd probably anex everything he could.
[QUOTE=Faunze;52651636]I agree with Putin's statement, at the very least, more sanctions do nothing, as this forum has been saying again and again, and an escalation will be catastrophic.
Putin knows what he's talking about, even if his actions are pure bullshit.
We need to talk NK down and help their people and bring them into the light rather than kill everyone around them while sending the country back to the stone age.
How can we not see this, why are people so ready for violence in such a short time after WWII.[/QUOTE]
Because we have tried this time and time again and jack shit has happened. Peoples lives are on the line. This game of talk and action has to end at some point, we must draw the line in the sand somewhere and respond if it's crossed. We simply can't tolerate it anymore.
[QUOTE=Faunze;52651636]I agree with Putin's statement, at the very least, more sanctions do nothing, as this forum has been saying again and again, and an escalation will be catastrophic.
Putin knows what he's talking about, even if his actions are pure bullshit.
We need to talk NK down and help their people and bring them into the light rather than kill everyone around them while sending the country back to the stone age.
How can we not see this, why are people so ready for violence in such a short time after WWII.[/QUOTE]
Lol dude stop falling for Putin's mindgames. He isn't even being subtle with it.
North Korea is a threat and won't respond to diplomacy. If they did they would've stop being a problem decades ago.
Do you really think we should let this brutal and insane dictatorship to continue to exist and terrorize millions of innocent people while also becoming an armed nuclear threat to the world?
By that logic we should just leave ISIS alone to avoid any bloodshed and become an wealthy and power islamic state.
I'm not really versed in all that stuff going on there, so maybe I'm getting something wrong, but I still don't understand all that hysteria caused by their missile program. I mean, sure there is a regional problem developing there, and it's not a good approach to just let them do what they want, but still, they are a very poor country with pretty backwards rocket technology. But even when they finally manage to build a miniaturized warhead(not really buying them saying it's already accomplished until some solid proof is provided) and a reliable delivery system, that won't change much since it's not only about developing something, it's all about the ability to mass produce those ICBMs, which is most likely too expensive and complicated for a country like North Korea.
I think the most dangerous thing they can do is to simply launch a single rocket with an actual warhead, pretending it's just another test, so probably, just probably, the best solution would be to intercept all the rockets coming from NK just for the sake of everyone's security. Better safe than sorry, you know.
[QUOTE=antianan;52651794]I'm not really versed in all that stuff going on there, so maybe I'm getting something wrong, but I still don't understand all that hysteria caused by their missile program. I mean, sure there is a regional problem developing there, and it's not a good approach to just let them do what they want, but still, they are a very poor country with pretty backwards rocket technology. But even when they finally manage to build a miniaturized warhead(not really buying them saying it's already accomplished until some solid proof is provided) and a reliable delivery system, that won't change much since it's not only about developing something, it's all about the ability to mass produce those ICBMs, which is most likely too expensive and complicated for a country like North Korea.
I think the most dangerous thing they can do is to simply launch a single rocket with an actual warhead, pretending it's just another test, so probably, just probably, the best solution would be to intercept all the rockets coming from NK just for the sake of everyone's security. Better safe than sorry, you know.[/QUOTE]
The problem is they keep threatening to wipe SK, Japan, USA off the map.
I don't know much in how it works, but I think it's fairly difficult to intercept a missile. Japan seemed pretty helpless about the one that flew over Hokkaido.
Also don't forget those rumored underground tunnels and recent nuclear tests make North Korea missles must more unexpecting and dangerous then thought of before.
[editline]5th September 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=antianan;52651794]I'm not really versed in all that stuff going on there, so maybe I'm getting something wrong, but I still don't understand all that hysteria caused by their missile program. I mean, sure there is a regional problem developing there, and it's not a good approach to just let them do what they want, but still, they are a very poor country with pretty backwards rocket technology. But even when they finally manage to build a miniaturized warhead(not really buying them saying it's already accomplished until some solid proof is provided) and a reliable delivery system, that won't change much since it's not only about developing something, it's all about the ability to mass produce those ICBMs, which is most likely too expensive and complicated for a country like North Korea.
I think the most dangerous thing they can do is to simply launch a single rocket with an actual warhead, pretending it's just another test, so probably, just probably, the best solution would be to intercept all the rockets coming from NK just for the sake of everyone's security. Better safe than sorry, you know.[/QUOTE]
Not only would that not work out well for SK and japan but don't forget about the millions of koreans that continues to live in an god awful 1984 soviet hellhole that the world don't seem to care much about.
[QUOTE=Flapjacks;52651809]I think it's fairly difficult to intercept a missile. [/QUOTE]
Oh, I thought it's pretty simple to intercept it on the initial phases of the flight, and it's hard to do that mostly during re-entry. I guess now I can see the problem more clearly.
[QUOTE=Sky King;52651837] but don't forget about the millions of koreans that continues to live in an god awful 1984 soviet hellhole that the world don't seem to care much about.[/QUOTE]
I totally understand your point, but let's get it straight: there will always be places where people live bad. It gets even more interesting when you realize that some of those places are not ruled by fat dictators refusing to accept foreign aid, it's just those countries are plain dirt poor and backwards(see lots of african republics and so on). And yet nobody really cares about people dying there(at least on the international level). This makes all those sentiments about north koreans "living in a hellhole" sound a bit hypocritical to me.
[QUOTE=Faunze;52651636]We need to talk NK down[/quote]
We've been trying that for going on 30 years now and it's gotten fuck all done. They purposefully stonewall any attempts at dialogue and literally tell us to piss off if we keep pestering them with diplomacy. Sanctions, we all agree on their uselessness.
There's really only one course of action left here. It's just a matter of scale. Do we send spec-ops in there to do it quiet in the night? Do we let the USMC roll in there with their tanks balanced on the ends of their erections? Or do we just phone some submarines that are in the area? Mix of the three? Maybe get the USAF in on the action?
That's the only course of action that's going to do anything useful at this point. They actively shun any and all attempts at dialogue. You can't have diplomacy with a country that outright refuses to negotiate, and the closer they get to working, reliable, megaton-class-warhead armed ICBMs the worse it's gonna be.
My vote is we send spec ops in, with USAF on call to provide backup if needed. Minimizes the chances of any external casualties in Seoul or Japan....hell, if Spec-Ops play their cards right the Norks won't get a single shot off...and we can go about rebuilding [i]without[/i] having any cities forcefully unincorporated.
[quote]and help their people and bring them into the light[/quote]
That's not going to happen as long as the current regime holds power and you know it. [quote] rather than kill everyone around them[/quote]
Mm, yes, sending the USMC north from SK would cause quite a panic, and so would glassing a few cities. But spec-ops could get the job done with minimal civilian casualties, and the USAF is pretty damned good at hitting what they want to hit these days.
[quote] while sending the country back to the stone age.[/quote]
[i]The regime hasn't let them leave it yet.[/i]
[quote]How can we not see this[/quote]
Some of us aren't naive enough to think we can talk to someone who actively refuses to talk. [quote]why are people so ready for violence in such a short time after WWII.[/QUOTE]
1: Because there is no other path that will succeed
2: It's been...what, three, four generations? Your average Westerner has not lived through a major conflict in the world and probably never will. Even if things do go full scale on the Korean Peninsula again it won't be a massive clusterfuck like WW2 was. It'd...well, be like the Korean war was, where the effect back home is minimal at best.
[i]You know, kinda like how the war we've been in since 2001 has been.[/i]
[QUOTE=antianan;52651925]Oh, I thought it's pretty simple to intercept it on the initial phases of the flight, and it's hard to do that mostly during re-entry. I guess now I can see the problem more clearly.
I totally understand your point, but let's get it straight: there will always be places where people live bad. It gets even more interesting when you realize that some of those places are not ruled by fat dictators refusing to accept foreign aid, it's just those countries are plain dirt poor and backwards(see lots of african republics and so on). And yet nobody really cares about people dying there(at least on the international level). This makes all those sentiments about north koreans "living in a hellhole" sound a bit hypocritical to me.[/QUOTE]
Hypocritical?
You can want North Koreans not be tortured and living in a dictatorship while also want those starving africans fed too.
What makes you thinks anybody has to choose just one?
[editline]5th September 2017[/editline]
Also "there will always be shitty places" is not a excuse not to try to make those places better.
By that logic we shouldnt even brother having a civilized society anywhere.
great so why has russia propped NK up all these years by buying its slave labor, selling them military technology and oil, as well as joining china in opposing sanctions or failing to help in multilateral negotiations?
[editline]5th September 2017[/editline]
Remember, if North Korea has a missile capable of hitting the US who has a balistic missile shield for this sort of thing, then it sure as shit can hit china and russia already
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;52651662]I wouldn't trust Putin with anything.
If he was given the chance, he'd probably anex everything he could.[/QUOTE]
Who wouldn't?
[editline]6th September 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sableye;52652174]great so why has russia propped NK up all these years by buying its slave labor, selling them military technology and oil, as well as joining china in opposing sanctions or failing to help in multilateral negotiations?[/QUOTE]
The same reason why the Chinese have done this. They don't want an American-allied state in their back yard.
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