[img]http://libcom.org/files/imagecache/article/images/blog/cc.JPG[/img]
[quote]Following a four day shutdown of hundreds of factories by strikes and a series of violent confrontations involving tens of thousands of people, Bangladeshi garment workers have forced the bosses into a 77% rise to the minimum wage, although it is still the lowest minimum wage in the world. This victory will hopefully be a catalyst to other garment workers in India, China, Cambodia, and Laos, who are being held back from confrontation by the boss’s threats of relocation and dismissals.[/quote]
[url]http://libcom.org/blog/bangladeshi-garment-workers-win-77-pay-rise-14112013[/url]
“The proposed wage for an unskilled newcomer would increase their production cost significantly and destroy the industry in a fiercely competitive global market.”
but if i can't pay my workers a couple cents per shirt how will i make obscene profits???
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42895591]but if i can't pay my workers a couple cents per shirt how will i make obscene profits???[/QUOTE]
Maybe they should get some skills then.
That's a whole extra three cents!
In the long term it's better.
With higher wages, workers will be able to buy more, thus driving more industries to expand to cater to a growing consumer base.
[editline]17th November 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=avincent;42895614]Maybe they should get some skills then.[/QUOTE]
These are like farmers or the children of farmers who have recently moved into the cities.
[QUOTE=avincent;42895614]Maybe they should get some skills then.[/QUOTE]
Let me just shit out that several thousand dollar skill development training/education as a poor third world worker then. haha what was i thinking.
maybe i can pay for it on my one-cent-per-day wage
[QUOTE=avincent;42895614]Maybe they should get some skills then.[/QUOTE]
"just pull yourself up by your bootstraps!"
GO ON COP! BEAT THAT OLD HAG!
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42895671]In the long term it's better.
With higher wages, workers will be able to buy more, thus driving more industries to expand to cater to a growing consumer base.[/QUOTE]
Truth; if more people can pay for your products, you in turn make more money, and you're able to pay your bills and pay for more things to make more products, which in turn promotes a healthier economy and generally better state of play.
[QUOTE=avincent;42895614]Maybe they should get some skills then.[/QUOTE]
Good luck getting skills, in Bangladesh, when your parents can't sustain you past your 6 years of age and you have to work 12 hours a day for a dollar.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42895671]In the long term it's better.
With higher wages, workers will be able to buy more, thus driving more industries to expand to cater to a growing consumer base.
[editline]17th November 2013[/editline]
These are like farmers or the children of farmers who have recently moved into the cities.[/QUOTE]
it pushes the country towards becoming a bourgeois state but what happens when all the states become bourgeois?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42895913]it pushes the country towards becoming a bourgeois state but what happens when all the states become bourgeois?[/QUOTE]
There is a gradual rise in living standards, economic growth, technological advance, and general quality of all. All of the points mentioned are further boosted if the country also happens to be a strong democracy.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42895913]it pushes the country towards becoming a bourgeois state but what happens when all the states become bourgeois?[/QUOTE]
Robots will be the new "Proletariat"
It will be ages before all states become Bourgeois. When that does happen, the upper class will just find people within those countries to exploit, and not entire countries.
[editline]17th November 2013[/editline]
Or robots
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42895913]it pushes the country towards becoming a bourgeois state but what happens when all the states become bourgeois?[/QUOTE]
Who the hell still uses the word bourgeois?
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;42896027]Who the hell still uses the word bourgeois?[/QUOTE]
It's a word referring to middle class people, originally having derived from the name of Medieval towns with a charter allowing them to hold fairs, tax, trade, etc.
Bourgeois is a sort of outdated term, but really it just means "middle class".
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42895671]In the long term it's better.
With higher wages, workers will be able to buy more, thus driving more industries to expand to cater to a growing consumer base.[/QUOTE]
but wouldn't the increased amount of people able to purchase a good mean increased demand, which would lead to an increased price, and thus make the pay gain effectively useless? it's a question i've seen thrown around a lot, and i'm not sure whether or not it holds any water.
But guys violence isn't the answer!!
Once the nobility and clergy were cast out as the upper class, the bourgeois became the highest class, though.
The original meaning of the word is no longer relevant, it now represents the richest portion of the population.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42895591]but if i can't pay my workers a couple cents per shirt how will i make obscene profits???[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42895913]it pushes the country towards becoming a bourgeois state but what happens when all the states become bourgeois?[/QUOTE]
god this stuff just makes you really wet doesn't it
good for them though anyway, even though the pay raise is probably next to nothing
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;42895973]Robots will be the new "Proletariat"[/QUOTE]
Prepare for the robot uprising!
Nah lets just program the robots to like being exploited.
Kinda like how society does with people
[QUOTE=person11;42896228]Once the nobility and clergy were cast out as the upper class, the bourgeois became the highest class, though.
The original meaning of the word is no longer relevant, it now represents the richest portion of the population.[/QUOTE]
this isn't what i mean when i say "bourgeois state"
refer to my reply to sobotnik:
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42896075]It's a word referring to middle class people, originally having derived from the name of Medieval towns with a charter allowing them to hold fairs, tax, trade, etc.
Bourgeois is a sort of outdated term, but really it just means "middle class".[/QUOTE]
more specifically, when i say "bourgeois state" i am talking about states that have an economy that is built upon retail, service, and high skill jobs. idk what a better term for this is. "service economy"? idk.
china is becoming a bourgeois state because lately more people and economic activity have been present in the service and retail industries rather than manufacturing or agriculture.
[editline]17th November 2013[/editline]
i don't think the term "bourgeois state" is actually related to marxist analysis, i think the root might predate marx. the manufacturing or agricultural states are not "proletariat" states as far as i know. it's sorta like sobotnik says, a "middle class". even the most poverty-stricken employed people in the usa are still better off than sweatshop workers in se asia by A LOT. we are a relative "middle class" of countries.
[editline]17th November 2013[/editline]
bourgeois state: very powerful retail and service industries where most people are employed. generally import manufactured goods to meet consumer demands. they are highly developed and their populace is generally relatively affluent.
other states: more focused on exports. their economies are generally based around manufacturing goods or growing food to export to other countries. their population is relatively destitute.
My mistake, but yeah anyway the global economy seems dependent on countries being not all having the same types of economies
[QUOTE=person11;42897120]My mistake, but yeah anyway the global economy seems dependent on countries being not all having the same types of economies[/QUOTE]
idk for a lot of things. i believe that if we paid foxconn workers american minimum wage, the retail price of goods like ipods and ipads would only increase by <30%. it's a common conception that there needs to be a group of exploited manufacturing states in order to supply products to the bourgeois states, but i know that isn't exactly true for some specific industries and goods.
i have no idea how much shirts would cost if these manufacturing states began paying their workers american minimum wage, so idk if there needs to be an exploited state to supply westerners with cheap shirts.
[editline]17th November 2013[/editline]
i can only hope that sobotnik is right and these economies will eventually be able to move closer to becoming a "bourgeois state". i'm not holding out for it though. we tend to be pretty complacent and used to getting very cheap goods from these exploited areas.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42897198]i can only hope that sobotnik is right and these economies will eventually be able to move closer to becoming a "bourgeois state". i'm not holding out for it though. we tend to be pretty complacent and used to getting very cheap goods from these exploited areas.[/QUOTE]
Well actually not that much would change really. Prices would initially rise, but this would force employers to do one of the following:
1: Cut costs by moving elsewhere/legal loopholes/etc.
2: Build better machinery.
Generally, a bit of both happens. Long term, we will see these peoples lives improve and prices drop (as in, over the course of decades).
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42895913]it pushes the country towards becoming a bourgeois state but what happens when all the states become bourgeois?[/QUOTE]
You really like that word, don't ya?
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;42897467]You really like that word, don't ya?[/QUOTE]
bourgeois actually rolls of the tongue rather nicely. bourgeois state is still applicable, and i in fact do not know a better term for what i was trying to describe.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;42897467]You really like that word, don't ya?[/QUOTE]
would you prefer he replace it with "capital-owning social class"?
making fun of perfectly valid economic terms instead of addressing the argument is very bad form fyi.
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;42896027]Who the hell still uses the word bourgeois?[/QUOTE]
french people???
[QUOTE=avincent;42895614]Maybe they should get some skills then.[/QUOTE]
yeah they should take that three dollars a week and use it to go to harvard or something and stop being so useless
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