• Get ready for more massacre: Hamas threatens to resume fighting tomorrow
    68 replies, posted
[QUOTE]A spokesman for Hamas's armed wing, the Ezzedine al-Qassam Brigades, warned Thursday of renewed fighting with Israel if talks in Cairo to extend a 72-truce in Gaza collapsed. "We appeal to the Palestinian delegation to not accept a ceasefire, unless it satisfies the demands of our people," a spokesman using the nom-de-guerre Abu Obeida said in a televised address, adding that Hamas fighters were "ready to return to battle."[/QUOTE] Basically Hamas says they will start shooting tomorrow morning unless they get every single thing they want today. [URL="http://news.yahoo.com/hamas-resume-fighting-talks-israel-fail-spokesman-185958194.html"]Source[/URL].
Oh for fuck sake, just leave it alone! You finally got your ceasefire, you finally have Israel pulling back. Do you really need to keep fighting and jeopardizing even more civilians lives?
I'm not entirely sure how their rockets work - but I assume they would have reloaded all available launchers over the last 3 days? I'm kinda half expecting a seriously large barrage of rockets at 8.01 trying to overwhelm the Iron Dome.
Am I correct to assume Hamas' present set of demands are as impractical and unacceptable as the last four?
What exactly are the demands of Hamas? It doesn't name them in the article.
[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;45623611]Oh for fuck sake, just leave it alone! You finally got your ceasefire, you finally have Israel pulling back. Do you really need to keep fighting and jeopardizing even more civilians lives?[/QUOTE] They're not fighting for a ceasefire. They're resisting the blockade and are using rockets as leverage. If they weren't so indiscriminate and were used against civilians then I think its a pretty legitimate resistance to it. [editline]7th August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Explosions;45623681]What exactly are the demands of Hamas? It doesn't name them in the article.[/QUOTE] The original ones for this bought of fighting was to get Israel to lift the blockade on Gaza. Since its currently undergoing significant hardship since Egypt closed down their tunnels. [quote=bbc]Outsiders may not see things that way, but it is important to understand that the Gaza militants will not see themselves as a losing side in the run-up to these talks, and that will influence their approach. Hamas wants an opening of Gaza's borders to both Israel and Egypt to relieve the miserable economic conditions in which the people of Gaza were living, even before this latest round of fighting.[/quote]
The demands would be perfectly reasonable if Gaza were demilitarized. Don't know them all off the top of my head but they include opening the crossings, making a seaport + airport, extending the fishing zones + others. The issue is if these are put in place then Hamas will just use it to arm itself significantly more - and seeing how they're all for the destruction of Israel and killing of Jews it's something thats never going to happen.
[QUOTE=Jonzky;45623711]The issue is if these are put in place then Hamas will just use it to arm itself significantly more - and seeing how they're all for the destruction of Israel and killing of Jews it's something thats never going to happen.[/QUOTE] are you late by like a decade? Hamas frequently said that they're willing to cooperate with Israel if they stopped settling Palestinian lands and enforcing blockades. I'm pretty sure they now realize the 'death to israel' rhetoric simply isn't going to work in the present day. What I would be worried about if the blockades was lifted and normality was returned to Palestine is that the more hardline islamist groups that still grasp onto the death to Israel mantra might take advantage of this.
[QUOTE=Jonzky;45623711]The demands would be perfectly reasonable if Gaza were demilitarized. Don't know them all off the top of my head but they include opening the crossings, making a seaport + airport, extending the fishing zones + others. The issue is if these are put in place then Hamas will just use it to arm itself significantly more - and seeing how they're all for the destruction of Israel and killing of Jews it's something thats never going to happen.[/QUOTE] I can understand not wanting to demilitarize, though. Israel isn't exactly the nearest nation to sit next to, and it would be surrendering a lot of leverage. [editline]8th August 2014[/editline] And to be frank, most of those demands are basically "stop breaking international law and abusing himan rights". They would also enable Hamas which is shit and Israel has no reason to accept while the US defends them from any prosecution over their war crimes, but that doesn't change the fact that they should have never blockaded.
[QUOTE=Jonzky;45623711]The demands would be perfectly reasonable if Gaza were demilitarized. Don't know them all off the top of my head but they include opening the crossings, making a seaport + airport, extending the fishing zones + others. The issue is if these are put in place then Hamas will just use it to arm itself significantly more - and seeing how they're all for the destruction of Israel and killing of Jews it's something thats never going to happen.[/QUOTE] They won't demilitarize. Israel has negotiated in bad faith before, and Gazans know that if they give up all the rockets, Israel will just start evicting them and building settlements again. It's the only thing Gaza has, really. Why would they accept terms that are basically an unconditional surrender to Israel's mercy?
alright well clearly israel should just accept these rockets because israel is bad
[QUOTE=sYnced;45624689]alright well clearly israel should just accept these rockets because israel is bad[/QUOTE] Clearly Israel should actually try to alleviate the reasons why young, angry, misguided Palestinians want to launch them in the first place. But that is simply goes against what Israel wants to achieve.
[QUOTE=Gentry;45624825]Clearly Israel should actually try to alleviate the reasons why young, angry, misguided Palestinians want to launch them in the first place. But that is simply goes against what Israel wants to achieve.[/QUOTE] im going to try an analogy here because i honestly don't understand your mentality. when the twin towers were hit, were the americans crying that the USA caused civilian casulities in the middle east? no, because no other countries would allow their country to be bombed. were we crying when USA bombed nagasaki and hirashima? not really because we were being attacked. hamas already claimed they want the jews dead so im not sure if u feel differently since u defend them consistently.
[QUOTE=sYnced;45624988]im going to try an analogy here because i honestly don't understand your mentality. when the twin towers were hit, were the americans crying that the USA caused civilian casulities in the middle east? no, because no other countries would allow their country to be bombed. were we crying when USA bombed nagasaki and hirashima? not really because we were being attacked. hamas already claimed they want the jews dead so im not sure if u feel differently since u defend them consistently.[/QUOTE] shit analogy. Because many people were against the USA causing civilian casualties in the middle east. People involved in the Manhattan project petitioned strongly against the weapons use over japan, and others involved in the bombing even commited suicide over it and this 'Hamas just want jews dead' is such a retarded simplification that its funny you're building your entire worldview over it. So retarded, and so simple that you'll never be part of any solution to the problem.
[QUOTE=Gentry;45625024]shit analogy. Because many people were against the USA causing civilian casualties in the middle east. People involved in the Manhattan project petitioned strongly against the weapons use over japan, and others involved in the bombing even commited suicide over it and this 'Hamas just want jews dead' is such a retarded simplification that its funny you're building your entire worldview over it. So retarded, and so simple that you'll never be part of any solution to the problem.[/QUOTE] hamas is going to attack israel tomorrow, where's the solution, help me here
[QUOTE=Gentry;45623760]are you late by like a decade? Hamas frequently said that they're willing to cooperate with Israel if they stopped settling Palestinian lands and enforcing blockades. I'm pretty sure they now realize the 'death to israel' rhetoric simply isn't going to work in the present day. What I would be worried about if the blockades was lifted and normality was returned to Palestine is that the more hardline islamist groups that still grasp onto the death to Israel mantra might take advantage of this.[/QUOTE] Except the fact that Hamas stopped give a shit about 'palestinian land', ever since we withdrew from Gaza in 2005. You do realize that Hamas and the Palestinian Authority are two entirely separate entities with an entirely different set of ideals and goals, right? And did you know that we actually proposed a plan a few years ago to Hamas? A plan that would effectively lift the blockade on Gaza entirely. [url=http://d26e8pvoto2x3r.cloudfront.net/uploadImages/systemFiles/Artificial%20Islands%20off%20the%20Gaza%20Coast.pdf]We proposed building an artificial island off the coast of Gaza[/url]. This island would have a sea port, and airport, and some other stuff like power plants and water treatment facilities. The island would be internationally accessible, and entirely run by the people of Gaza. They could import and export anything, and Israel was willing to pay for the construction of the island. This plan came with a single condition -- the bridge that would connect Gaza and the island would have a single, solitary Israeli checkpoint at its center. You know, so they don't try to smuggle in weapons of any kind, obviously. This island would be a life-saver for Gaza, and could very much help kick-start their economy. But then Hamas decided to be the usual shits that they are and reject the plan altogether. You can probably guess why. Who needs economic stability and progress if you can't smuggle in weapons, right? There's no reasonable negotiation with these people. As it was previously mentioned almost a hundred times now, until Hamas is out of the picture, Gaza will suffer. There is literally no way around this fact.
[QUOTE=sYnced;45625087]hamas is going to attack israel tomorrow, where's the solution, help me here[/QUOTE] I guess I was right to call your understanding simple.
[QUOTE=Gentry;45625133]I guess I was right to call your understanding simple.[/QUOTE] you're such an inspiration, keep loving hamas bro
[QUOTE=Melnek;45625108]Except the fact that Hamas stopped give a shit about 'palestinian land', ever since we withdrew from Gaza in 2005. You do realize that Hamas and the Palestinian Authority are two entirely separate entities with an entirely different set of ideals and goals, right? And did you know that we actually proposed a plan a few years ago to Hamas? A plan that would effectively lift the blockade on Gaza entirely. [URL="http://d26e8pvoto2x3r.cloudfront.net/uploadImages/systemFiles/Artificial Islands off the Gaza Coast.pdf"]We proposed building an artificial island off the coast of Gaza[/URL]. This island would have a sea port, and airport, and some other stuff like power plants and water treatment facilities. The island would be internationally accessible, and entirely run by the people of Gaza. They could import and export anything, and Israel was willing to pay for the construction of the island. This plan came with a single condition -- the bridge that would connect Gaza and the island would have a single, solitary Israeli checkpoint at its center. You know, so they don't try to smuggle in weapons of any kind, obviously. This island would be a life-saver for Gaza, and could very much help kick-start their economy. But then Hamas decided to be the usual shits that they are and reject the plan altogether. You can probably guess why. Who needs economic stability and progress if you can't smuggle in weapons, right? There's no reasonable negotiation with these people. As it was previously mentioned almost a hundred times now, until Hamas is out of the picture, Gaza will suffer. There is literally no way around this fact.[/QUOTE] "A spokesman for the West Bank-based Palestinian Authority described the idea as "pure fantasy" and an attempt by Israel "to divert attention from the real problems of Gaza resulting from the Israeli siege". " Sounds accurate. "Israeli Transportation Minister Israel Katz’s $5 billion artificial island project is actually a decent idea when packaged within a comprehensive solution to the conflict. When presented as a stand-alone proposal to ease the blockade, however, it is nothing more than a dangerous regression to the [URL="http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gyv0VpRA4kI7sR9BN0KpQh-2RbuA"]“economic peace” plan[/URL] proposed by Binyamin Netanyahu before his election to Israel’s premiership. " Basically every source I'm reading up on this plan said it was an awful idea that no one would accept.
Your link is giving a 404, just so you know.
I'm not linking anything. Just richtext copy and paste.
[QUOTE=Gentry;45625156]"A spokesman for the West Bank-based Palestinian Authority described the idea as "pure fantasy" and an attempt by Israel "to divert attention from the real problems of Gaza resulting from the Israeli siege". " Sounds accurate. "Israeli Transportation Minister Israel Katz’s $5 billion artificial island project is actually a decent idea when packaged within a comprehensive solution to the conflict. When presented as a stand-alone proposal to ease the blockade, however, it is nothing more than a dangerous regression to the [URL="http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gyv0VpRA4kI7sR9BN0KpQh-2RbuA"]“economic peace” plan[/URL] proposed by Binyamin Netanyahu before his election to Israel’s premiership. " Basically every source I'm reading up on this plan said it was an awful idea that no one would accept.[/QUOTE] You're reading shit sources, then. [quote]Just as “economic peace” was rejected by the world two years ago as a half-measure, the idea of “giving” the Gaza Strip an economic lifeline to the outside world is doomed to be seen for what it really is – an inadequate attempt to avoid peacemaking by distracting the world with feel-good improvements to the suffering of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.[/quote] This is just a load of idiocy. Distracting the world with feel-good improvements? Does this guy expect peace to be achieved overnight? This island would have been a step in the right direction. It was meant to be something to build and expand upon, a stepping stone to some kind of an improvement, or at worst just to see what would happen if we had tried this, because clearly the way things are going it's best we try anything. If any measure no matter how small is rejected by the world because it's a "half-measure", then there's really nothing we can do about this whole conflict. Any step towards peace would be rejected because people don't seem to realize peace is a long fucking process that usually starts with a small change (aka half-measure) rather than some guy just pulling the "PEACE" lever.
Maybe the Palestinians are sick of conceding to half measures that have gotten them nowhere. Maybe they just want Israel to fuck off back to its boarders, and rightly so.
[QUOTE=Gentry;45625312]Maybe the Palestinians are sick of conceding to half measures that have gotten them nowhere. Maybe they just want Israel to fuck off back to its boarders, and rightly so.[/QUOTE] When you say Palestinians it'd help if you actually told me which individual Palestinian group you're talking about. You know, because they're not a single solidified entity.
the palestinians as a people
[QUOTE=Gentry;45625312]Maybe the Palestinians are sick of conceding to half measures that have gotten them nowhere. Maybe they just want Israel to fuck off back to its boarders, and rightly so.[/QUOTE] Or Hamas could fuck off too, just saying.
[QUOTE=ExplosiveCheese;45625463]Or Hamas could fuck off too, just saying.[/QUOTE] Why would they when Israel drives young, angry disillusioned Palestinians into their arms? Hamas's popularity has only gone up because of all this. And can you honestly blame them?
The only solution is for Gaza and Hamas to be destroyed. Israel will not accept peaceful terms, nor will Hamas.
[QUOTE=Gentry;45625420]the palestinians as a people[/QUOTE] Utterly meaningless statement. The PLO wants one thing. Fatah wanted another. Hamas wants something else entirely. Gaza has absolutely no relation to the West Bank politically. Both of those areas are entirely different to one another with their own problems and their own set of circumstances. Some Palestinians hate Hamas, others hate the PLO, etc. It's idiotic to make such blanket-statements. Either speak of specific Palestinian groups or don't speak at all. Don't lump everyone together, especially when you pretend like all Palestinians want is to stop Israeli 'oppression'.
At this point there most likely won't be a peaceful end to this conflict. If either side gives up, the other will just use that to further destroy them.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.