• UK: 850,000 to be eligible for free weight loss surgery to cut down on type 2 diabetes risk
    60 replies, posted
[B]An expansion of weight loss surgery in England is being proposed to tackle an epidemic of type 2 diabetes. [/B]Diabetes UK estimates 850,000 people could be eligible for surgery. The surgery can cost between £3,000 and £15,000 and the move by NICE has raised concerns that the NHS will not be able to afford the treatment, even if there are savings in the longer term. [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-28246641[/url]
[quote]But NICE's Prof Mark Baker, who drafted the guidelines, said it was "ridiculous" to think so many people would be operated on. He told the BBC's website: "The first line of attack will be diet and exercise and we would expect clinicians to consider the risks and benefits of surgery for patients." He said some would not be operated on because of age, concluding: "It would be between 5,000 and 20,000 operations a year, but we haven't done the modelling." And speaking to the Today programme, he said evidence showed that "relatively early bariatric surgery in the course of [overweight people's] disease can make their diabetes much easier to manage, and in a proportion of cases actually reverse the diagnosis".[/quote] I'll just leave this here.
for the love of fuck no... prevent people from becoming fatlords in the first place, show them how to lose weight and stop gaining it. the NHS exists to help people who really need it, not people who got themselves into this mess by over eating
My mother had this surgery done awhile ago, I can confirm it isn't easy either with private insurance. You have to do so much work that you might as well just lose weight the good old fashion way by the time your done. Its pretty good if you got type 2 though, for some reason that they don't fully understand yet it can reverse the effect almost immedtiatley.
I dont understand human beings that become so fat that they develope Diabetes type 2. I understand that you might get a bit overweight when you become older, but becoming a train of fatness is to me, an incredible achievement.
If a person doesn't take care of his car, buying a new car will not fix the problem The same thing applies to healthcare. 70+ % of healthcare visits are self-afflicted problems which could easily have been avoided by taking care of your body and exercising, and making it free will not help, it will solely burden the system and lazy people takes advantage of that
[QUOTE=freaka;45359165]I dont understand human beings that become so fat that they develope Diabetes type 2. I understand that you might get a bit overweight when you become older, but becoming a train of fatness is to me, an incredible achievement.[/QUOTE] Some people do have genuine problems that might lead to this, though. However, most of the time it just boils down to poor discipline regarding what we eat.
[QUOTE=Kentz;45359196]If a person doesn't take care of his car, buying a new car will not fix the problem The same thing applies to healthcare. 70+ % of healthcare visits are self-afflicted problems which could easily have been avoided by taking care of your body and exercising, and making it free will not help, it will solely burden the system and lazy people takes advantage of that[/QUOTE] I don't know, my healthcare visit was a self-inflicted fractued rib, which I got from jitsu, which I took up to improve my health. Maybe some us are just doomed.
[QUOTE=freaka;45359165]I dont understand human beings that become so fat that they develope Diabetes type 2. I understand that you might get a bit overweight when you become older, but becoming a train of fatness is to me, an incredible achievement.[/QUOTE] Because there are many many systems in the human body that all evolved to prevent us from going without eating, and all of these give a pleasure response when satisfied. We don't have nearly the same amount of these systems to prevent over-eating, only really will power and stomach distention. Thus, with all the systems saying "it's okay to eat", and not nearly enough controlling how much, it's easy to see why obesity is common
Yeah would be better if they just made the fat people that over ate made aware of their over eating habits then given a plan for change. That alone would fix the problem, though if the doctors are to be held to customer service standards then this would fall to the wayside by the people not wanting to hear how they are affecting their own bodies in the wrong way.
[QUOTE=Kentz;45359196]If a person doesn't take care of his car, buying a new car will not fix the problem The same thing applies to healthcare. 70+ % of healthcare visits are self-afflicted problems which could easily have been avoided by taking care of your body and exercising, and making it free will not help, it will solely burden the system and lazy people takes advantage of that[/QUOTE] Humans aren't so simple. If the case was that they spiraled out of control and lost hope of recovery because of being too big, then removing the mass would allow them to exercise more.
[QUOTE=rsa1988;45359298]Yeah would be better if they just made the fat people that over ate made aware of their over eating habits then given a plan for change. That alone would fix the problem, though if the doctors are to be held to customer service standards then this would fall to the wayside by the people not wanting to hear how they are affecting their own bodies in the wrong way.[/QUOTE] Don't worry. A lot of people already don't give a shit about how they maintain their own bodies. I can confirm this because I almost always just get told to fuck off if I try to get people with rotten livers to stop drinking for the sake of their continued good health.
[QUOTE=freaka;45359165]I dont understand human beings that become so fat that they develope Diabetes type 2. I understand that you might get a bit overweight when you become older, but becoming a train of fatness is to me, an incredible achievement.[/QUOTE] Poor discipline and knowledge. Fast food is GREAT at making you intake absolutely huge amounts of calories without being aware of it. If fast food is a staple in your diet, you're looking at quite a bit of exercise to burn that excess shit out. There's also sodas and shit people drink.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;45359324]Don't worry. A lot of people already don't give a shit about how they maintain their own bodies. I can confirm this because I almost always just get told to fuck off if I try to get people with rotten livers to stop drinking for the sake of their continued good health.[/QUOTE] Can't help those who don't want to be helped.
[QUOTE=rsa1988;45359298]Yeah would be better if they just made the fat people that over ate made aware of their over eating habits then given a plan for change. That alone would fix the problem, though if the doctors are to be held to customer service standards then this would fall to the wayside by the people not wanting to hear how they are affecting their own bodies in the wrong way.[/QUOTE] One can be aware of the receptors lining their mouth, throat, stomach, and the whole rest of their GI tract, but it may take more than a conscious effort on the patients part, because dopamine is king as far as the brain is concerned. They would have to [I]somehow[/I] receive more pleasure from abstaining from eating as much then they would get from eating it. Someone would have to either 100% control their diet, they'd have to be conditioned with drugs, or somehow identify the full workings of the reward systems of eating and limit them
[QUOTE=freaka;45359165]I dont understand human beings that become so fat that they develope Diabetes type 2. I understand that you might get a bit overweight when you become older, but becoming a train of fatness is to me, an incredible achievement.[/QUOTE] You don't have to be fat to get type 2 diabetes. My friend was 11.5 stone and 6"1", not fat looking, and got it. They think it was mainly because of his sedentary lifestyle. [editline]11th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Antlerp;45359129]for the love of fuck no... prevent people from becoming fatlords in the first place, show them how to lose weight and stop gaining it. the NHS exists to help people who really need it, not people who got themselves into this mess by over eating[/QUOTE] Actually the NHS exists to help people regardless of whether they cause their health problem themselves. That is part of the point of it - it's supposed to be there to help people irrespective of the cause.
[QUOTE=JustExtreme;45359389]You don't have to be fat to get type 2 diabetes. My friend was 11.5 stone and 6"1", not fat looking, and got it. They think it was mainly because of his sedentary lifestyle. [/QUOTE] There are also genetic factors. You don't have to be fact to have insulin resistance, but there is a correlation.
[QUOTE=JustExtreme;45359389]You don't have to be fat to get type 2 diabetes. My friend was 11.5 stone and 6"1", not fat looking, and got it. They think it was mainly because of his sedentary lifestyle[/QUOTE] Does anyone else in his family have that? As sloppy joes said, it can be genetic.
[QUOTE=Antlerp;45359129]for the love of fuck no... prevent people from becoming fatlords in the first place, show them how to lose weight and stop gaining it. the NHS exists to help people who really need it, not people who got themselves into this mess by over eating[/QUOTE] if you wanna pass judgement on people from afar that's totally your decision but using weight-loss surgery to lower the rates of obesity almost certainly seems like it would save money in the long run considering just how many health problems obesity causes.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45359463]if you wanna pass judgement on people from afar that's totally your decision but using weight-loss surgery to lower the rates of obesity almost certainly seems like it would save money in the long run considering just how many health problems obesity causes.[/QUOTE] risks and benefits. Also, even if they're eligible they'll have to consent to surgery in the first place.
My dad developed type 2 diabetes when he was 52 or something, he had a beer belly but looking at him you wouldnt say that he was obese. His diet wasnt even that bad, I think the main thing was beer consumption (He brews). He would never get surgery for this though, when he was diagnosed with diabetes the doctor said he would be dead in less than 10 years if he didnt make some lifestyle changes...He cut down his sugary/fatty food intake and went to stay in his apartment in Turkey for 3-4 months where they mainly eat salad and low calorie foods and he had dropped 15-20kg by the time he came back.
[QUOTE=Cushie;45359494]My dad developed type 2 diabetes when he was 52 or something, he had a beer belly but looking at him you wouldnt say that he was obese. His diet wasnt even that bad, I think the main thing was beer consumption (He brews). He would never get surgery for this though, when he was diagnosed with diabetes the doctor said he would be dead in less than 10 years if he didnt make some lifestyle changes...He cut down his sugary/fatty food intake and went to stay in his apartment in Turkey for 3-4 months where they mainly eat salad and low calorie foods and he had dropped 15-20kg by the time he came back.[/QUOTE] Well by our definition a beer belly is obese, so there you have it.
[QUOTE=Antlerp;45359129]for the love of fuck no... prevent people from becoming fatlords in the first place, show them how to lose weight and stop gaining it. the NHS exists to help people who really need it, not people who got themselves into this mess by over eating[/QUOTE] The NHS doesn't exist only to help people who really need it, it exists to improve the health of everyone in the country, it already offers a huge amount of preventative measures for free. If this stops people from developing more serious problems I'm all for it.
Like I said it isn't easy If you weigh 600lb you have to loose 10 percent of your body weight which is 60lb on top of a strict eating regimen and constant blood tests to make sure you aren't lying. You also have to submit to full psychiatric evaluation and visit a consular every week on top of visiting a nurse and a dietitian and tell them your life problems. Basically some of the surgeries are useful to conform if food is your worst enemy. Since you can't eat that much anymore after you've had your surgery.
How do you even move if you weight 600lbs?
[QUOTE=itisjuly;45359546]How do you even move if you weight 600lbs?[/QUOTE] you get carried around by some other poor bastards.
When I went as the support person for my mother at her first meeting there was like some women who weighed like 800lb, it was pretty sad. Most of them where just overly self conscious women who couldn't cope that they were getting old.
[QUOTE=Saxon;45359576]When I went as the support person for my mother at her first meeting there was like some [B]women who weighed like 800lb,[/B] it was pretty sad. Most of them where just overly self conscious women who couldn't cope that they were getting old.[/QUOTE] Are you sure? that's weight of a small European car [editline]11th July 2014[/editline] Actually I was thinking kilograms, never mind
How many people in this thread have overweight parents? As a kid it's easy to stay fit. Once you get a full time job and have children to take care of you can lose time for exercise. It's not impossible to stay fit, but it's definitely harder. Just something to keep in mind before you spout off about how all these old fat people are pieces of shit.
[QUOTE=Kentz;45359196]The same thing applies to healthcare. 70+ % of healthcare visits are self-afflicted problems which could easily have been avoided by taking care of your body and exercising, and making it free will not help, it will solely burden the system and lazy people takes advantage of that[/QUOTE] bruh i had to go to the hospital the other day because my hand was crushed with 200 pounds of patio slab at work. are you saying i could have prevented this by exercising? bruh? bruh. bro
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.