[b]Because Garry set a new thread autolock limit,[/b] [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1048278]the old thread[/url][b] has been relocated to here.[/b]
___[img]http://i.imgur.com/ZNvxB.png[/img]
[img]http://www.espen.com/graphics/pcjrfamily.jpg[/img]
[quote="Linus Torvalds"]Do you pine for the days when men were men and wrote their own device drivers?[/quote]
[code]What is retrocomputing?[/code]
In short, retrocomputing is the hobby of collecting and using old computers. Most frequently collected are machines from the 80s and early 90s, including computers made by Commodore, Kaypro, Tandy, Acorn, IBM, and early Apples.
[code]What is NOT retrocomputing?[/code]
It changes every day as computers get older but at current time you can obviously work with computers as old as you can find. The newest computer that is still considered retrocomputing runs a Pentium 1 233 MMX. For macs this would be the PowerPC 603. For other CPU types it would be the MIPS R10000 and AMD K6 to name two other commonly used processors.
Systems that run these or older processors in groups are also considered part of Retrocomputing.
For the newer stuff, I recommend posting over in CIPWTTKT&GC.
[code]Why would you want to do that?[/code]
It's fun. Old computers typically have a variety of idiosyncracies, different processor architectures, awesome communities (yes, even in 2011), and "personality". Programming an old machine is a great way to learn the basics of assembly language, and they are certainly a challenge to program, given the comparatively small amounts of memory and slow processing speeds that they possess.
[code]How do I get started?[/code]
Well, you could check eBay, craigslist, flea markets, thrift stores, or your closet for older systems. There are also dedicated trading sites for retrocomputing enthusiasts, such as AmiBay. If one cannot afford this, one could always emulate an older system.
[code]What do you have?[/code]
Gathered from the last megathread (or at least the ones who posted pictures):
[code]RepoOne - SGI Indy, Commodore Amiga 1200, Generic 486 Machine
Wingless - Commodore 64
Lapsus - Toshiba T6400DXC, Olivetti M15
raBBish - IBM PS/2 model P70
Mr. Massacre - IBM PS/2 model P70, Seequa Chameleon
f1lm - IBM 5160 XT, TRS-80 Model I, Apple eMate 300
FlashStock - Macintosh Classic II
SPESSMEHREN - IBM PS/2 model 56sx
Corey_Faure - IBM 5170 AT
[EG] Pepper - Toshiba T1100+
bigdoggie - Commodore C386SX-LT
Fallingwater - Compaq Portable II
CrumbleShake - Atari 1040ST
Elgar - Copies of MS-DOS and Netware
Genericenemy - Commodore Amiga 600 (not working)
RoboChimp - Atari Portfolio
Bambo. - Atari 520ST
MIPS - Just about everything you can imagine
[/code]
[code]Do other people actually do this?[/code]
Yep. The Commodore machines have absolutely massive communities, and new hardware and software is still being developed.
The Amiga is a great example of this. Entirely new Amiga systems are being made, such as the Natami and AmigaOne X1000. Another person created an Amiga 500 on an FPGA, called the Minimig.
The Commodore 64 still has some new things being developed for it, one of which is called the SuperCPU, which is
an accelerator that allows the machine to do a lot more than it originally could.
[code]Notable Videos[/code]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc3kGyYyqgQ[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chwQnTQyGY0[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSj6kvv7_Sg[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJVU-7WinQc[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCLCUHrHcG8[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1p1im_2uf4[/media]
[code]Notable Pictures[/code]
[thumb]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/Computer%20related/Cray.png[/thumb]
[img]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/Computer%20related/Disk_Pack.png[/img]
[thumb]http://www.vintage.org/pictures/LARGE/VCF%207.0%20Exhibitor%20-%20Pavl%20Zachary.JPG[/thumb]
[img]http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17ma9j848w8hvjpg/original.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.cca.org/d/vax-dave.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.rewindmuseum.com/images3/popularsciencepet.gif[/img]
[url=http://s11.beta.photobucket.com/user/ballsandy/library/Computer%20related]MIPS has a photobucket. He's adding new photos all the time.[/url]
You should add a non-working to my Amiga 600 listing MIPS. Anyway, I sort of consider late 90s machines to be retro to me at least because there the sorts of machines I remember being about 4 or 5 years old. But I wouldn't collect them as they are just fucking boring, no variation whatsoever.
My girlfriends grampa has an old BBC Micro that he's offered to give me at some point! Exciting!
My dad had one years ago which he sold so we're gonna have a play around with it. We might even have some old games in a box in the attic.
Trouble is, they found loads of old data for the beeb (he designed boats) that they have no other way of accessing so it might be a while before I get it...
I've put my C64C in a drawer... not much to do with it :v:
Also, I've discovered that it has a Breadbin C64's keyboard. Drean quite literally made them out of whatever parts they could find for cheap, and rumor has it, they used boards that didn't pass QC in the US.
Damn I always thought my G3 iMac (Its blue but not bondi-blue IIRC, haven't used it for [B]ages[/B]) was old, some of the stuff mentioned in the OP is seriously old. I feel disappointed!
Although there is apparently a ZX Spectrum in the attic right above me, I should find it one day and use it. I dunno why but old computers have always fascinated me, even though I haven't really used much. Maybe its because my first exposure to computing was on a BBC thing when I was at primary school in the late 90s.
I remember using a seriously old Mac at home as well, but it got given away to someone (damn not having foresight!!). If I remember it was a Classic or a Classic II (or maybe an older one but it is that product category). Such a shame it was given away, I wonder MIPS (as you are the best person to answer this) are there many of these things out there still? They were awesome.
On a side note, I have an unused copy of NT4 Workstation (with COA!) does that count as retrocomputing? (lol)
[QUOTE=Jsm;39744103]I remember using a seriously old Mac at home as well, but it got given away to someone (damn not having foresight!!). If I remember it was a Classic or a Classic II (or maybe an older one but it is that product category). Such a shame it was given away, I wonder MIPS (as you are the best person to answer this) are there many of these things out there still? They were awesome.[/QUOTE]
Crackerbox Macintoshes are getting harder to come by and more expensive. I had a couple of them in the late 90s, and they all met some terrible fate. A common problem with them is that the HV board for the internal CRT killed itself due to poor quality soldering, or overheating (usually both.) This more often than not resulted in the entire machine catching on fire and burning to a smoldering hulk. If you ever find a crackerbox Mac and turn it on to only see something like jail bars, TURN THAT SHIT OFF until you can disassemble it to repair the HV board.
The overheating can be attributed to Steve Jobs. He was more or less directly involved in the development of the original Macintosh and the subsequent models that used the same case. His eccentricity refused to allow the case to have any vent holes because it altered the design, or even have a fan because it produced noise. Unsurprisingly, all of the earlier crackerbox Macintoshes (original Mac, the rebranded 128k, the later 512K and 512Ke and the Plus) suffered from severe overheating and failure that lead to fires and other nasty problems.
Later crackerbox Macs introduced vent slits on the sides and top that caused convection cooling, but it still really wasn't enough. I think they finally relented around the Macintosh SE, because I had an SE/30 with a factory fan. The SE/30 was a "high end" version of the SE with a 16/25 MHz 68030, a 68881 or 68882 FPU and four additional RAM slots on a PDS card. There was an even more expensive SE/30 FDHD that replaced one of the 800k floppies with a 10/20 MB hard drive and the remaining 800k disk drive with a 1.44 MB high density floppy drive. I don't totally remember what happened to this one, I think it may have been the one my mum crushed by dropping something heavy on it.
But this thermal death issue lead to mass binnings of those old things in the late 90s, and more binnings when the internal CRT started to fail, since it was difficult or impossible to get a replacement.
It's amazing how a half connected SCSI cable can break a system so badly. v:v:v
[img]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/Computer%20related/CRW_8188.jpg[/img]
What is the generally accepted time span before a computer can be called "retro". I've seen people call the iBook G4 a retro computer.
I still use mine, and it works better than my netbook.
On the topic, I found a loose Windows 95 disc with USB support and "CD Sampler with Free Games" Only half of the programs I tried running work on Vista. Might try it with Virtual PC, as I have no actual hardware lying around.
The back has a lot of light scratches, but I still am terrified to try and fix it.
[QUOTE=Durrsly;39822394]What is the generally accepted time span before a computer can be called "retro". I've seen people call the iBook G4 a retro computer.
I still use mine, and it works better than my netbook.
On the topic, I found a loose Windows 95 disc with USB support and "CD Sampler with Free Games" Only half of the programs I tried running work on Vista. Might try it with Virtual PC, as I have no actual hardware lying around.
The back has a lot of light scratches, but I still am terrified to try and fix it.[/QUOTE]
imo anything before the Pentium era
[QUOTE=Durrsly;39822394]What is the generally accepted time span before a computer can be called "retro". I've seen people call the iBook G4 a retro computer.
I still use mine, and it works better than my netbook.
On the topic, I found a loose Windows 95 disc with USB support and "CD Sampler with Free Games" Only half of the programs I tried running work on Vista. Might try it with Virtual PC, as I have no actual hardware lying around.
The back has a lot of light scratches, but I still am terrified to try and fix it.[/QUOTE]
Personally, I've considered it "At least 10 years or so", but I'm not really stingy with this kind of thing either way. It depends a bit on the form factor, though, IMO. PDAs have evolved a lot faster, for example, than desktops did.
[quote="From the OP"]It changes every day as computers get older but at current time you can obviously work with computers as old as you can find. The newest computer that is still considered retrocomputing runs a Pentium 1 233 MMX. For macs this would be the PowerPC 603. For other CPU types it would be the MIPS R10000 and AMD K6 to name two other commonly used processors.
Systems that run these or older processors in groups are also considered part of Retrocomputing.
For the newer stuff, I recommend posting over in CIPWTTKT&GC.[/quote]
I usually tinker around with my grandparent's old Amiga when I go to visit, but there honestly isn't much use to it. I dumped most of their old software and use an emulator.
[QUOTE=MIPS;39737460]
[t]http://www.vintage.org/pictures/LARGE/VCF%207.0%20Exhibitor%20-%20Pavl%20Zachary.JPG[/t]
[/QUOTE]
The Magnum PI computer lab :v: .
[img]http://i.dbastatic.dk/images/3/94//90264994_07032013095045_0509_3.jpg[/img]
What is this, should I buy it, what can I do with it, is it even worth anything. I like retro computers and I saw this listing but I don't know much about what you can do with them (Unless they can run dos)
[editline]12th March 2013[/editline]
Also lol at the description:
"Super gaming computer, runs games like spacewars at max resolution. Selling it because I purchased a Mac, to try something new"
[QUOTE=MIPS;39824947][/QUOTE]
So, based on that, my pentium 166 from when I was... 4 or 5 is considered retrocomputing?
[QUOTE=Warship;39886845][img]http://i.dbastatic.dk/images/3/94//90264994_07032013095045_0509_3.jpg[/img]
What is this, should I buy it, what can I do with it, is it even worth anything. I like retro computers and I saw this listing but I don't know much about what you can do with them (Unless they can run dos)
[editline]12th March 2013[/editline]
Also lol at the description:
"Super gaming computer, runs games like spacewars at max resolution. Selling it because I purchased a Mac, to try something new"[/QUOTE]
Frankly, I'd buy it just for the keyboard. One has to one-up a Model M somehow.
Looks like a terminal, though, considering it's just a screen. Do you know how you're going to link it up to a server? Does it handle VT-XXX control characters, so you don't have to spend sleepless nights fiddling with termcap?
Oh, it's kinda expensive. But I am pretty sure it's a computer since the listing said it was 1MHz and had 64k ram
[QUOTE=Warship;39889804]Oh, it's kinda expensive. But I am pretty sure it's a computer since the listing said it was 1MHz and had 64k ram[/QUOTE]
It probably has something like a 6502, 680x or a Z80. It likely runs a variant of CP/M, which is a precursor to DOS.
I like my BBC Master's like I like my women
[img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2692549/test/IMG_20130314_134712.jpg[/img]
Stacked
Them MVS cartridges <3
You think modern DRM is bullshit? How about...
[b]THE DRM FROM HELL[/b]
[url]http://www.6502lane.net/2011/08/09/the-end-of-an-era/[/url]
I hope for the sake of keeping a backup someone made a cracking utility. That's fucking painful if the hard drive goes.
[QUOTE=MIPS;39927911]Them MVS cartridges <3
You think modern DRM is bullshit? How about...
[b]THE DRM FROM HELL[/b]
[url]http://www.6502lane.net/2011/08/09/the-end-of-an-era/[/url]
I hope for the sake of keeping a backup someone made a cracking utility. That's fucking painful if the hard drive goes.[/QUOTE]
That was a pretty cringe worthy read. My mom had Quark Express on her old Mac Performa, but I don't think it was nearly that draconian.
[QUOTE=MIPS;39952095][IMG]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/Computer%20related/DPP_0022.jpg[/IMG]
Fuck.[/QUOTE]
I got like an entire box full of those ranging from 4 MB to 64 MB.
Sucks that the motherboard uses SIMMs because you have to install them in pairs to get the required 64 bit bus width.
No, not the ram. I got enough matched 32mb SIMMS to fill it and four more systems. It's the fucking PSU that overlaps the slots.
Hey, did you guys hear about MS-DOS 4.0? ...No, not the hideously glitchy one -- [URL="http://www.os2museum.com/wp/?p=1769"]The Other MS-DOS 4.0[/URL]!
Been doing a bit of work on my still sadly non-functional Amiga 600, never got round to asking this but would anyone know why there is an overly blue tint on the screen?
[t]http://i.imgur.com/Yp9VPQM.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=Amiga OS;40014484]Are you using the RF modulator for that?
The picture quality is awful.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I've got a crappy composite cable somewhere but I can't find it so the RF will have to do. Rest assured if I do get it going I will by it a lovely scart cable. Also my phone camera seems to hate that screen.
[QUOTE=Amiga OS;40014627]That might be the issue then, the picture quality with a D-Sub to SCART/Component cable is flawless.[/QUOTE]
I'll have to check it through that then, cheers.
My "just barely retro" Compaq Armada desktop, bought in 1997 and upgraded to Windows 98SE sometime in 1998 before being unused for 12 years is finally dead. The hard drive, among other things, is dead and it is not a style of connector that I've ever seen before.
Whether or not I am able to replace it, there are capacitors burnt out on the motherboard in one section of it. I'm not savvy enough to replace them myself and it's not worth it to pay someone to repair it (if I can find anyone that could). Rest in peace, computer
[QUOTE=FFStudios;40026278]My "just barely retro" Compaq Armada desktop, bought in 1997 and upgraded to Windows 98SE sometime in 1998 before being unused for 12 years is finally dead. The hard drive, among other things, is dead and it is not a style of connector that I've ever seen before.
Whether or not I am able to replace it, there are capacitors burnt out on the motherboard in one section of it. I'm not savvy enough to replace them myself and it's not worth it to pay someone to repair it (if I can find anyone that could). Rest in peace, computer[/QUOTE]
Laptops in the 90s tended to use exotic cabling and connectors to connect drives to the motherboard. Under the mess of caddies, ribbon cables and adapters is usually just a plain old 2.5" IDE drive. Removing the drive can be problematic, but finding an old replacement drive shouldn't be too hard.
The capacitors would be a tad more difficult though, since they're probably SMD and not through-hole.
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