• Indiana just banned abortion if the fetus has Down syndrome
    198 replies, posted
[URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/03/24/indiana-just-banned-abortion-if-the-fetus-has-down-syndrome/?tid=hybrid_collaborative_1_na"]SOURCE[/URL] [QUOTE]Indiana Gov. Mike Pence (R) signed a controversial abortion bill Thursday that, among other things, would ban the procedure if it is sought because the fetus was diagnosed with a disability or defect such as Down syndrome.[/QUOTE]
That's only slightly fucked up.
They can fuck off honestly.
People should not be especially forced to carry a baby to term just because it has some sort of defect If a parent isn't prepared either emotionally or financially for the stress of raising such a child then they should be not only allowed but encouraged to abort it
[QUOTE=Bazsil;50006457]People should not be especially forced to carry a baby to term just because it has some sort of defect If a parent isn't prepared either emotionally or financially for the stress of raising such a child then they should be not only allowed but encouraged to abort it[/QUOTE] People should also not be able to terminate a person because they're differently abled.
They should but they shouldn't be encouraged or discouraged. I think the professional thing to do would be to be neutral in a situation like that.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006468]People should also not be able to terminate a person because they're differently abled.[/QUOTE] Why should you be making that choice for them?
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006468]People should also not be able to terminate a person because they're differently abled.[/QUOTE] See, here's where you get into the very sticky topic of where the rights of the mother end and the rights of the fetus begin. And that's a minefield where nobody comes out with legs.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006468]People should also not be able to terminate a person because they're differently abled.[/QUOTE] A fetus isn't a person.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006468]People should also not be able to terminate a person because they're differently abled.[/QUOTE] You try raising a severely disabled child and having to take care of him for your entire life. Once you've done that and consider it easy, THEN you can make blanket statements like that.
At first I thought this said India and wasn't surprised at all When your social policies are on the same level as something India would put forward maybe you should step back and reconsider what you're doing
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006468]People should also not be able to terminate a person because they're differently abled.[/QUOTE] Being able to terminate them BECAUSE they're disabled was never the issue. Before you could abort regardless of disability or defect, there was no extra freedom or incentive to do it because of disabilities. There is absolutely no reason for this legislation to go through, it's completely backwards logic that a baby should be especially protected against abortion because it's disabled.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006468]People should also not be able to terminate a person because they're differently abled.[/QUOTE] Yes it's totally fair for someone who does not want to deal with a disabled child who is and would be very difficult to take care of because of said condition to be forced to raise said child
I think all children should be aborted, it would end humanity but think of how much less annoying the world would be for that last century
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;50006487]You try raising a severely disabled child and having to take care of him for your entire life. Once you've done that and consider it easy, THEN you can make blanket statements like that.[/QUOTE] By that logic we should perhaps cull all disabled people away from civilization because they put too much of a burden upon society, perhaps into camps of some sort so that they aren't a burden to anyone. I remember a gentleman in Germany a long time ago with a sentiment very similar to the ones a majority of all of you hold in this particular matter, and if I recall correctly it didn't end well for him. [QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;50006486]A fetus isn't a person.[/QUOTE] It's extremely easy to get rid of someone you dislike if you just convince yourself they're not like you or me. Theres a reason soldiers often refer to their enemy in racial or other dehumanizing terms (gook, kraut, etc.) , it makes the act of ending their life very easy if you don't think of them as a human.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006514]By that logic we should perhaps cull all disabled people away from civilization because they put too much of a burden upon society, perhaps into camps of some sort so that they aren't a burden to anyone. I remember a gentleman in Germany a long time ago with a sentiment very similar to the ones a majority of all of you hold in this particular matter, and if I recall correctly it didn't end well for him.[/QUOTE] Yeah because wanting people to not be forced to keep a child they're unable to take care of is the same as wanting to gas the jews and other unwanted.
[QUOTE=zakedodead;50006507]I think all children should be aborted, it would end humanity but think of how much less annoying the world would be for that last century[/QUOTE] why has the human race continued on for the last who-knows-how-long years? because people have chose to breed. so, if we've continued breeding for so long and continue to do it to this day, do you seriously think that abortion poses a legit threat to wipe out the human race?
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006514]By that logic we should perhaps cull all disabled people away from civilization because they put too much of a burden upon society, perhaps into camps of some sort so that they aren't a burden to anyone. I remember a gentleman in Germany a long time ago with a sentiment very similar to the ones a majority of all of you hold in this particular matter, and if I recall correctly it didn't end well for him.[/QUOTE] nice godwin sorry, no, wanting the right to be able to abort a fetus that you know will suffer from downs syndrome and pretty much fuck up your life doesn't make you ~literally hitler~
I am far from your usual internet eugenicist who says that people should not be able to reproduce if they have inheritable defects yada yada, but this is idiotic. So what, if you just don't want kids and your birth control failed, that's fine, but if your kid will have a poor quality of life his entire existence and your life will need to be completely devoted to their care, it's wrong? Utterly backwards. Edit: Like, there's plenty of good reason people should believe that abortion is wrong. That's a reasonable stance in my opinion, or at least one which can be reasonably defended even if I don't agree with it. This is just nonsense. There is no good justification.
I have an aunt that looks after a child with downs syndrome, and I wouldn't wish it on anybody. While I understand the intention (unless this is just an american "fuck abortion" lobby) that this could make this sort of illness look less "wrong" as it were, there are some big problems 1) If you force someone, who really don't want to have a child with this sort of mental illness, to have one, they will not be a good parent to it. You'll see a rise in abuse and poor parenting cases. 2) They'll still be able to put the child up for adoption, meaning that now you have a rise in the number of kids who need to be taken in by a very exceptional kind of foster parent, because of the illness
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006468]People should also not be able to terminate a person because they're differently abled.[/QUOTE] Ok. We will ship all the retarded kids to your home address once they are born.
i believe a person should be allowed to terminate a fetus during pregnancy regardless of the reason. [editline]25th March 2016[/editline] whether downs syndrome or not, if they're in the uterus they're there at the will of the mother
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;50006542]Yeah because wanting people to not be forced to keep a child they're unable to take care of is the same as wanting to gas the jews and other unwanted.[/QUOTE] Oddly enough the rationale behind it is very similar. Hitler saw the Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, disabled as not only a eugenic detriment to his "aryan master race" but as an economic and social millstone weighing down the floundering German economy. Perhaps it's just my way of thinking but when you call a human a burden and advocate for them not to exist in any form, whether it be in a camp or doctor's office something is being taken away or destroyed because someone believed it would be a costly or burdensome thing to be let living.
A pregnant teen should be able to abort a fetus unless the fetus has a disability that will make it exponentially harder to raise:hiddendowns:
[QUOTE=Fapplejack;50006577]A pregnant teen should be able to abort a fetus unless the fetus has a disability that will make it exponentially harder to raise:hiddendowns:[/QUOTE] Then you admit that death is preferable to living in poverty.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006593]Then you admit that death is preferable to living in poverty.[/QUOTE] Turns out it's not all about what the fetus would want.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;50006610]Turns out it's not all about what the fetus would want.[/QUOTE] You didn't answer my question, is death preferable to living in poverty?
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006514]By that logic we should perhaps cull all disabled people away from civilization because they put too much of a burden upon society, perhaps into camps of some sort so that they aren't a burden to anyone. I remember a gentleman in Germany a long time ago with a sentiment very similar to the ones a majority of all of you hold in this particular matter, and if I recall correctly it didn't end well for him.[/QUOTE] one, abortions aren't forced, so "locking them all up in camps" isn't what this can be compared to. two, it isn't that we "don't think of them as people because they have disabilities", they actually aren't physically considered people at that stage. [QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006514]It's extremely easy to get rid of someone you dislike if you just convince yourself they're not like you or me. Theres a reason soldiers often refer to their enemy in racial or other dehumanizing terms (gook, kraut, etc.) , it makes the act of ending their life very easy if you don't think of them as a human.[/QUOTE] so on one hand, we have forcibly killing perfectly normal people because a dictator didn't like them and on the other hand, we have the optional termination of disabled fetuses that would have a horrible quality of life, and who's parents would have a lot of trouble handling. yeah, both are TOTALLY the same
[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50006626]one, abortions aren't forced, so "locking them all up in camps" isn't what this can be compared to. two, it isn't that we "don't think of them as people because they have disabilities", they actually aren't physically considered people at that stage. so on one hand, we have forcibly killing perfectly normal people because a dictator didn't like them and on the other hand, we have the optional termination of disabled fetuses that would have a horrible [B][U][I]quality of life[/I][/U][/B], and who's parents would have a lot of trouble handling. yeah, both are TOTALLY the same[/QUOTE] To a fetus it would seem almost entirely involuntary. But in your second statement, you assert that quality of life is enough to be able to be terminated. I think that seems a bit biased, your quality of life could seem like luxury to a person of a lower station, and that quality of life would be the norm. Where is the cut off line for what you deem a quality life? Why do you or some other individual get to make that delineation?
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50006621]You didn't answer my question, is death preferable to living in poverty?[/QUOTE] death of a clump of unconscious cells, yeah
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