System Building, Upgrading, and Parts Picking - is dis a gud vidya card???
43 replies, posted
[img]http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/172e64921ddaf524c0697346334d74bc.png[/img]
:frogsiren:[b]HERE IS A FAQ PLEASE READ IT BECAUSE THESE QUESTIONS GET ASKED EIGHT TIMES A PAGE[/b]:frogsiren:
[b]Q: What's the best way to future-proof my system/make it run top end games for 5 years?[/b]
A: You can't future-proof, don't even bother trying. To re-emphasize, YOU CANNOT FUTURE-PROOF. Maximize your purchase by getting the best value for your money now, and saving the rest for an upgrade in 2-3 years. PC hardware has a huge diminishing returns curve, and paying more than ~$1k for a complete system today will do nothing to increase its longevity.
For example, if someone tried their hardest to future-proof a system four years ago, they probably would have gotten a top-of-the-line Athlon 64 X2, a pair of Geforce 6800 Ultras, and paid ~$3000 for all of it. Today, it would be slow as hell vs today's $800 "sweet spot" system. Someone who bought midrange back then ($1000) and upgraded again to midrange two years later ($800) would have spent less money and probably would have a C2D E6400 and 8800GTS 320; substantially faster parts that still have some life in them. Buy what you need and set cash aside for upgrades later.
You can never predict the future, but this trend has held true throughout 15+ years of PC hardware technology.
[b]Q: Quad Core or Dual Core?[/b]
A: At this point, more and more games are coming out that are better optimized for more than 2 cores.
If it's within your price range, consider picking up a quad core or tri core.
[b]Q: AMD or Intel?[/b]
A: There are good choices for both right now! Intel is still king of the high end with i7, although that's not what most people need. Intel and AMD have good options in the mid-range (e8400 for Intel, and Phenom II x3 720 for AMD), and AMD wins the extreme budget end right now with the x2 7750.
This is not an opinionated subject, I have zero brand loyalty and just buy the best bang for the buck.
[b]Q:DDR2 or DDR3?[/b]
A: DDR2 all the way. DDR3 is more expensive and give literally zero performance difference for Core 2/AMD chips at this point. Intel's i7 is the only place where DDR3 is really needed.
[b]Q: Should I get SLI/Crossfire?[/b]
A: SLI is usually misunderstood. It does not double your performance, and the actual gains vary wildly from game to game. SLI is good for mainly people who game at obscene resolutions, like 2560x1600 with full AA+AF. A single high end card is a better choice for 1900x1200 and below for almost everybody.
SLI is also a bad upgrade strategy. Two SLI cards of an older generation are typically outperformed by one card of the current generation. So instead of paying a premium for an SLI motherboard, bigger PSU, and a 2nd card, save that money and buy a new card in 1-2 years.
As of now, two 4770s in crossfire is probably the best dual gpu solution ever in terms of cost/performance. It's certainly still not the default recommendation, but this is a somewhat worthwhile solution if you must have SLI.
[b]Q: How much wattage does my PSU need?[/b]
A: Wattage is actually the least important part of a PSU. The fact is, a well made and designed PSU only needs ~ 500w to power a "high end" system. A system with a Geforce GTX280, running under full load, only consumes ~350w TOTAL for the whole box. What you should focus on is amps on the 12v rail, because that's what powers everything important in your system.
Ideally, you should be buying a PSU that A)Has 450-550 watts, and B)supplies at least 30 amps on the +12V rails. You can check this by looking at the +12V listing on a PSU. If there are multiple rails 12V rails (listed as +12V1, +12V2, etc), you can add those amps together (close enough for the layman).
Also, we recommend three PSU manufacturers here: Corsair, Seasonic, and PC Power & Cooling. This is because these companies have a reputation for building quality supplies. The PSU is the only part of your system that can DESTROY EVERYTHING ELSE IN YOUR SYSTEM, so don't cheap out on it. I don't recommend overspending here, but the PSU is one component worth spending a couple extra bucks on to ensure quality.
[b]Q: I want to buy XYZ motherboard, what do you guys think?[/b]
A: As with videocards, buy motherboards based on the features you will use. If you don't need onboard video or RAID (and most of you don't), then don't buy a board that has it. The boards in the quick pick guide are solid, no-gimmick boards with low price points, and unless you have a good reason probably shouldn't spend any more than what those boards cost.
[b]Q: Do I need aftermarket cooling (ie heatsinks, watercoolers, VGA coolers, hard drive fans?[/b]
A: In general, no. Stock cooling is perfectly adequate for stock setups, and most stock cooling can even handle mild overclocking. Aftermarket cooling is mainly for high-end O/C (ie getting 4Ghz out of a 3Ghz chip) or for noise reduction.
[b]Q: Should I go with 15K RPM Hard Drives for maximum speed?[/b]
A: No, 15k drives don't benefit gaming/desktop usage patterns, and you're paying 3-4 times the cost. A better solution is buying hard drives with only 1 or 2 platters inside, which will increase your speed and are nearly identical in price to other drives.
[b]Q: Should I go with RAID-0 for maximum speed?[/b]
A: No, RAID-0 doesn't really speed up your system significantly and is far more risky to your data. RAID 5 and 1 are really more about protecting uptime, and are not a backup solution - it will not replace an external hard drive/archive DVDs/etc.
[b]Q: Should I go with Solid State Drives (SSD) for maximum speed?[/b]
A: Maybe, if you have money to burn and want to put some work into it. The "inexpensive" versions of SSD use low-grade flash memory that can actually hurt performance, so avoid them. While you can get some impressive results from quality SSDs (Intel and OCZ Vertex lines), there can be still some fairly large problems with them. The most common is severely reduced performance with frequent small writes to the disk (something pretty common on a boot/OS drive). If you want one, make sure you read up on proper use/maintenance, otherwise you'll end up with a very expensive platter-drive equivalent.
[b]Recommended Vendor List[/b]
[b]In the U.S.:[/b]
NewEgg
ZipZoomFly
TigerDirect
[b]In Canada:[/b]
NCIX
NewEgg (.ca)
Tigerdirect
[b]In Europe:[/b]
SCAN Computers
[b]In Australia[/b]
Scorptec
Pccasegear
mwave
[b]Helpful Charts and Shit (I didn't make these, I got them off of 4chan's technology board[/b]
[img]http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/314ad939baa8f3a7d5850f39d5414f55.jpg[/img]
[img]http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/88c90023e312db709cc82061ffbb0cca.png[/img]
[img]http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/32d36fb109fd542f56db1fd088477037.png[/img]
Feel free to post about other reputable vendors in your region.
[b]Quick Picks as of 7/23/09[/b]
Here are a list of parts that are generally agreed-upon to be good, solid choices for anyone assembling a new machine.
:frogsiren:[b]THIS IS NOT A COMPLETE LIST, NOR IS IT MEANT TO BE[/b]:frogsiren:
Everyone's needs in a computer are different. This part should be a starting point in your research, not a definitive guide to what you should get.
[img]http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/18922739cca69c67863d5c3437d57f27.png[/img]
* Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 or the slightly slower E7400 great gaming/general desktop chips
* Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400 or Q9550
* Intel Core i7 920 - Only chip worth it out of the i7 lineup as of now (unless you're doing crazy motherfucking shit and have fuckloads of money)
[img]http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/8638de488e6f78eacbf2df7f0920bacf.png[/img]
* Athlon X2 7850 - A good budget chip
* Althon II X2 250 - Midrange Dual Core for light gaming, overclockable to 3.6GHz on stock with decent temps
* Phenom II X2 550 - Only AM3 Dual Core, fuckwin processor if you're lucky to have the other 2 cores unlocked
* Phenom II X3 720 - probably the current best choice for a typical computer
* Phenom II X4 940 - A good Core 2 Quad alternative
* Phenom II x4 955 - i7 920 competitor, on par or better when OC'ed
[img]http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/1600b9d56d312740740b2423a285d9a0.png[/img]
* Gigabyte EP45-UD3L
* Asus P5Q
* Intel P43
[img]http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/f9d58ff14730dafb0367f3e8022f85bb.png[/img]
* Asus M3A78 Plus
* GIGABYTE GA-MA770-UD3
* GIGABYTE GA-MA790X-UD4P
[img]http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/e52d3ef2344c735a95ba09dce958f9cd.png[/img]
* 4 Gigs of DDR2 800
[img]http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/0d095a17eaa90b196e125b3685ed7aa6.png[/img]
* Radeon 4850 - Screen resolutions of 1600x1050 and below
* Radeon 4870 - 1GB Screen resolutions of 1600*1050 and higher
* Radeon 4890 - a powerhouse for 1900x1200
* GeForce GTX260 216 Screen resolutions of 1600*1050 and higher, similar performance to the 4870 1G
* GeForce GTX275
[img]http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/cef0cd026a9db1c6633ac9486f017378.png[/img]
* Western Digital Caviar 640GB (Dual Platter)
* Seagate Barracude 500GB 7000.12 (Single Platter)
[img]http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/7b8fb44f76c7685e35eab77b8f06198c.png[/img]
* DVD Burners
* Blu-ray DVD-ROMs
[img]http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/bacf120eb99fce697619e4ddf139f542.png[/img]
* Antec P183 - (Extremely quiet, a great case if noise is an issue)
* Antec Nine Hundred
* Lian-Li PC-7B
* CoolerMaster Centurion 5
* CoolerMaster Centurion 534
* CoolerMaster 690C
* CoolerMaster HAF 932
* Antec 300
* CoolerMaster Elite Series
[img]http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/ba7a825ad7fbd516cfd8cf574691d805.png[/img]
* Corsair 450W
* Corsair 520W
* PC Power and Cooling 420W
* PC Power and Cooling 500W
* SeaSonic 500W
* CoolerMaster 500W
[img]http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/b235bf227e2167a04285f84718666df7.png[/img]
* Xigmatek S1283 - Make sure to purchase the Backplate as well if you have an Intel chipset
* Xigmatek Dark Knight (Come with backplate)
* Sunbeam Core Contact
* Scythe Ninja Mini - For small clearance cases
* ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro
[img]http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/97d0b700b24c9a23d94377476b4b6755.png[/img]
In general, most LCDs will be fine for the average user, and price is the biggest driver.
[img]http://filesmelt.com/Imagehosting/pics/aa49056e5fbbf524760bdc425b13d45d.png[/img]
* Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium
* Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional
[b]The current Intel Price/Performance "Sweet Spot":[/b]
Gigabyte EP45-UD3L
Core 2 Duo E8400
Corsair XMS 2x2GB DDR2-800 Kit
Radeon HD4870 1GB
OR
[b]The current AMD Price/Performance "Sweet Spot":[/b]
GIGABYTE GA-MA770-UD3
Phenom II X3 720
Corsair XMS 2x2GB DDR2-800 Kit
Radeon HD4870 1GB
Approximately $400 USD
Changes, corrections, additions, and comments are welcome as always.
Don't forget this power supply, great for small budget.
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171031[/url]
[editline]05:47AM[/editline]
The F7P is also good cooling for the price.
[editline]05:49AM[/editline]
The HAF is a great case.
[editline]05:50AM[/editline]
The E8500 isn't worth the money, the E8400 is much better.
[editline]05:51AM[/editline]
Toss GTX 275 onto the list.
[QUOTE=Yumyumbublegum;16213552]Don't forget this power supply, great for small budget.
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171031[/url]
[editline]05:47AM[/editline]
The F7P is also good cooling for the price.
[editline]05:49AM[/editline]
The HAF is a great case.
[editline]05:50AM[/editline]
The E8500 isn't worth the money, the E8400 is much better.
[editline]05:51AM[/editline]
Toss up the GTX 275.[/QUOTE]
Link me the "F7P", can't find it.
FFFFFFFFFFFF-
I don't know whether or not to link all the parts.
[quote]
[b]Q: What's the best way to future-proof my system/make it run top end games for 5 years?[/b][/quote]
A: Learn to lower the res and update drivers seriously my old inspiron pentium M 1.6ghz, 512 DDR2 400mhz ram, 128mb DDR x300 could play TF2 on low at about 40fps (when I put in some 1gb DDR2 533 CAS 3)
[quote][b]Q: Quad Core or Dual Core?[/b][/quote]
A: Quad core, most quads are now the prices of dual cores and out perform them IE intel's E8400 vs a tad more Q9400, AMD 550 X2 vs 720 X3, the dual cores may win in games but it is very slight and you may as well get a quad it will perform better over all unless you got a 9600 X4/9550 X4 or 9150 X4
[quote][b]Q: AMD or Intel?[/b][/quote]
A: depends how much money you have and what is available on the market at the time, LOOK AT THE BENCHMARKS TO DECIDE WHAT YOU SHOULD GET
[quote]
[b]Q:DDR2 or DDR3?[/b][/quote]
A: DDR3 IF you can get the CAS to around 6/5 otherwise the clock speed is a waste SEE
[url]http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=3589[/url]
[b]Q: Should I get SLI/Crossfire?[/b]
A: Depends what performs for the price at the time IE don't buy 2 8800GT's or 2 4670's as the cost will not make up for just going for a GTX275 or 4870 which will out perform them, IF you already have say an 9800GT/4830 and want to upgrade your gpu and have the mobo capable of sli/xfire do so it will save some money [B]BUT READ THE BENCHMARKS OF THE 2 CARDS IN SLI/XFIRE FIRST THEN SEE IF IT IS WORTH IT
[/B]
[quote]
[b]Q: How much wattage does my PSU need?[/b][/quote]
A: Wattage is actually the least important part of a PSU. The fact is, a well made and designed PSU only needs ~ 500w to power a "high end" system. A system with a Geforce GTX280, running under full load, only consumes ~350w TOTAL for the whole box. What you should focus on is amps on the 12v rail, because that's what powers everything important in your system.
Ideally, you should be buying a PSU that A)Has 450-550 watts, and B)supplies at least 30 amps on the +12V rails. You can check this by looking at the +12V listing on a PSU. If there are multiple rails 12V rails (listed as +12V1, +12V2, etc), you can add those amps together (close enough for the layman).
550 watts is the sweet spot, remember don't cheap out on this
[quote][b]Q: I want to buy XYZ motherboard, what do you guys think?[/b][/quote]
A: Don't get a mobo you know you aren't going to use more than half the features IE don't say Hey I want a X58 4way sli, unless you have 3k to drop then get it, or say I want to sli 4 9800GTX+'s no, see how they perform and then use those benchmarks to decide what you should get, So if you are getting a mobo look for things that you will use that will most effect performance, most onboard RAID is bad, some top teir boards are good but you could get a RAID card and save money.
[quote]
[b]Q: Do I need aftermarket cooling (ie heatsinks, watercoolers, VGA coolers, hard drive fans?[/b][/quote]
A: Only for 2 reasons A) the current stock is too loud B) it is not cooling enough for what I need it too do, IE OC, be in heavy use for hours on end, BEFORE YOU ORDER A NEW FAN GET THERMAL PASTE you'll have to buy it anyways if you get a new heat sink, usually MX2 will do the trick
[quote]
[b]Q: Should I go with 15K RPM Hard Drives for maximum speed?[/b][/quote]
A: No, unless you are going to be running a raid setup then no but you can get SSD's in RAID for about the same price as a 15k drive
[quote][b]Q: Should I go with RAID-0 for maximum speed?[/b]
[/quote]
A: ARE YOU RUNNING A SERVER?!? if yes then raid stuff if not then don't raid, gaming doesn't need raid
[quote][b]Q: Should I go with Solid State Drives (SSD) for maximum speed?[/b][/quote]
A: If you got money too burn and want to pay $3~5 bucks per GB as appose to .50c to .05C per gb on a normal HDD and get around the same results SSD's are great for laptops and netbooks but for laptops they ar impracticable
[b]Recommended Vendor List[/b]
[b]In the U.S.:[/b]
NewEgg
tigerdirect
[b]In Canada:[/b]
NCIX
NewEgg (.ca)
[b]In Europe:[/b]
SCAN Computers
Feel free to post about other reputable vendors in your region.
[b]Quick Picks as of 7/23/09[/b]
Here are a list of parts that are generally agreed-upon to be good, solid choices for anyone assembling a new machine.
:frogsiren:[b]THIS IS NOT A COMPLETE LIST, NOR IS IT MEANT TO BE.[/b]:frogsiren:
Everyone's needs in a computer are different. This part should be a starting point in your research, not a definitive guide to what you should get.
[b]Intel CPU[/b]
* Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 or the slightly faster E8500 great gaming/general desktop chips
* Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400
[b]AMD CPU[/b]
* Athlon X2 7850 A good budget chip
* Phenom II X3 720 probably the current best choice for a typical computer
* Phenom II X4 940 A good Core 2 Quad alternative
[b]Intel Motherboard[/b]
* Gigabyte EP45-UD3L
* Asus P5Q
* Intel P43
[b]AMD Motherboard[/b]
* Asus M3A78 Plus
* GIGABYTE GA-MA770-UD3
* GIGABYTE GA-MA790X-UD4P
[b]Memory[/b]
* 4 Gigs of DDR2 1066/DDR3 1xxx CAS 6/5 ram
[b]Graphics[/b]
* Radeon 4850 Screen resolutions of 1600x1050 and below
* Radeon 4870 1GB Screen resolutions of 1600*1050 and higher
* Nvidia GTX 275 - a powerhouse for 1900x1200
* GeForce GTX260 216 Screen resolutions of 1600*1050 and higher, similar performance to the 4870 1G
[b]Hard Drive[/b]
* Western Digital Caviar 640GB (Dual Platter)
* Seagate Barracude 500GB 7000.12 (Single Platter)
[b]Optical[/b]
* DVD Burners
* Blu-ray DVD-ROMs
[b]Case[/b]
* Antec P182se (Extremely quiet, a great case if noise is an issue)
* Lian-Li PC-7B
* CoolerMaster Centurion 5
* CoolerMaster Centurion 534
* CoolerMaster 690C
[b]Power Supplies[/b]
* Coolermaster 500w
* Corsair 520W
* PC Power and Cooling 420W
* PC Power and Cooling 500W
* SeaSonic 500W
[b]Aftermarket Cooling[/b]
CPU:
* Xigmatek S1283 make sure to purchase the Backplate as well if you have an Intel chipset
* Xigmatek Dark Knight (Come with backplate)
* Sunbeam Core Contact
* Scythe Ninja Mini for small clearance cases
VGA:
* Arctic CSolver MX 2
[b]LCDs[/b]
In general, most LCDs will be fine for the average user, and price is the biggest driver.
look for ms response time(lower the better) and contrast ratio (higher the better)
[b]The current Intel Price/Performance "Sweet Spot":[/b]
Gigabyte EP45-UD3L
Core 2 Duo E8400
Corsair XMS 2x2GB DDR2-800 Kit
Radeon HD4870 1GB
OR
[b]The current AMD Price/Performance "Sweet Spot":[/b]
GIGABYTE GA-MA770-UD3
Phenom II X3 720
Corsair XMS 2x2GB DDR2-800 Kit
Radeon HD4870 1GB
Nah you need DDR3 for that board and the ram needs to be 1066
I fix'd it
I wouldn't call the E8500 recommended. It's speed difference to the E8400 is negligible and the E8400 can easily go to the E8500's clockspeed if needed.
I can vouch for Thermaltake being a good brand air cooling solution. I have their power supply as well but not long enough to have a good opinion. They also have great prices.
Does anyone else remember that thread where the guy referred to video cards as "the vidya"?
he was from /v/
[QUOTE=dgjsk3;16213486]:frogsiren:[b]HERE IS A FAQ PLEASE READ IT BECAUSE THESE QUESTIONS GET ASKED EIGHT TIMES A PAGE[/b]:frogsiren:
[b]Q: What's the best way to future-proof my system/make it run top end games for 5 years?[/b]
A: You can't future-proof, don't even bother trying. To re-emphasize, YOU CANNOT FUTURE-PROOF. Maximize your purchase by getting the best value for your money now, and saving the rest for an upgrade in 2-3 years. PC hardware has a huge diminishing returns curve, and paying more than ~$1k for a complete system today will do nothing to increase its longevity.
For example, if someone tried their hardest to future-proof a system four years ago, they probably would have gotten a top-of-the-line Athlon 64 X2, a pair of Geforce 6800 Ultras, and paid ~$3000 for all of it. Today, it would be slow as hell vs today's $800 "sweet spot" system. Someone who bought midrange back then ($1000) and upgraded again to midrange two years later ($800) would have spent less money and probably would have a C2D E6400 and 8800GTS 320; substantially faster parts that still have some life in them. Buy what you need and set cash aside for upgrades later.
You can never predict the future, but this trend has held true throughout 15+ years of PC hardware technology.[/quote]
Don't rag on buying a high-end system. They can have lots of upgradability in them.
[quote][b]Q: Quad Core or Dual Core?[/b]
A: Unless you have specific applications (like video encoding, 3D rendering, or high-end audio work) which specifically benefit from 4 cores, it doesn't make sense to go with Quad Core or i7. You will get better price and performance out of dual core chips for gaming/office/typical desktop computer use.[/quote]
It all depends on budget. 6 months ago, dual core all the way. Right now, new stuff is coming down the pipe very soon that takes advantage of 3/4 cores. This year's holiday games will have more quad-core support than ever.
[quote][b]Q: AMD or Intel?[/b]
A: There are good choices for both right now! Intel is still king of the high end with i7, although that's not what most people need. Intel and AMD have good options in the mid-range (e8400 for Intel, and Phenom II x3 720 for AMD), and AMD wins the extreme budget end right now with the x2 7750.
This is not an opinionated subject, I have zero brand loyalty and just buy the best bang for the buck.[/quote]
A 7750 isn't extreme budget at all. The high-end is also getting crept up upon by AMD with the Phenom IIs, especially the 955.
[quote][b]Q:DDR2 or DDR3?[/b]
A: DDR2 all the way. DDR3 is more expensive and give literally zero performance difference for Core 2/AMD chips at this point. Intel's i7 is the only place where DDR3 is really needed.[/quote]
Unless, of course, you find a good motherboard that supports only DDR3. I'm pretty indifferent myself.
[quote][b]Q: Should I get SLI/Crossfire?[/b]
A: SLI is usually misunderstood. It does not double your performance, and the actual gains vary wildly from game to game. SLI is good for mainly people who game at obscene resolutions, like 2560x1600 with full AA+AF. A single high end card is a better choice for 1900x1200 and below for almost everybody.
SLI is also a bad upgrade strategy. Two SLI cards of an older generation are typically outperformed by one card of the current generation. So instead of paying a premium for an SLI motherboard, bigger PSU, and a 2nd card, save that money and buy a new card in 1-2 years.
5/20/09 EDIT: As of now, two 4770s in crossfire is probably the best dual gpu solution ever in terms of cost/performance. It's certainly still not the default recommendation, but this is a somewhat worthwhile solution if you must have SLI.[/quote]
Don't forget GTX 275 SLI, which outperforms a 295. 4870 1GB Crossfire, which costs $300, comes pretty damn close to a 4870 X2, which costs around $360.
[quote][b]Q: How much wattage does my PSU need?[/b]
A: Wattage is actually the least important part of a PSU. The fact is, a well made and designed PSU only needs ~ 500w to power a "high end" system. A system with a Geforce GTX280, running under full load, only consumes ~350w TOTAL for the whole box. What you should focus on is amps on the 12v rail, because that's what powers everything important in your system.
Ideally, you should be buying a PSU that A)Has 450-550 watts, and B)supplies at least 30 amps on the +12V rails. You can check this by looking at the +12V listing on a PSU. If there are multiple rails 12V rails (listed as +12V1, +12V2, etc), you can add those amps together (close enough for the layman).[/quote]
I don't disagree with anything here.
[quote]Also, we recommend three PSU manufacturers here: Corsair, Seasonic, and PC Power & Cooling. This is because these companies have a reputation for building quality supplies. The PSU is the only part of your system that can DESTROY EVERYTHING ELSE IN YOUR SYSTEM, so don't cheap out on it. I don't recommend overspending here, but the PSU is one component worth spending a couple extra bucks on to ensure quality.[/quote]
And Antec, Cooler Master, and OCZ, among others.
[quote][b]Q: I want to buy XYZ motherboard, what do you guys think?[/b]
A: As with videocards, buy motherboards based on the features you will use. If you don't need onboard video or RAID (and most of you don't), then don't buy a board that has it. The boards in the quick pick guide are solid, no-gimmick boards with low price points, and unless you have a good reason probably shouldn't spend any more than what those boards cost.[/quote]
You also might want a board with better overclocking features, extra cooling, or other tidbits, so don't always cheap out.
[quote][b]Q: Do I need aftermarket cooling (ie heatsinks, watercoolers, VGA coolers, hard drive fans?[/b]
A: In general, no. Stock cooling is perfectly adequate for stock setups, and most stock cooling can even handle mild overclocking. Aftermarket cooling is mainly for high-end O/C (ie getting 4Ghz out of a 3Ghz chip) or for noise reduction.[/quote]
By mild, you mean OCing on stock voltages, right?
Because I'm not going to overvolt shit without a nice aftermarket cooler.
[quote][b]Q: Should I go with 15K RPM Hard Drives for maximum speed?[/b]
A: No, 15k drives don't benefit gaming/desktop usage patterns, and you're paying 3-4 times the cost. A better solution is buying hard drives with only 1 or 2 platters inside, which will increase your speed and are nearly identical in price to other drives.[/quote]
I don't totally disagree with this, but I'd suggest RAID 0 over a single fast hard drive.
[quote][b]Q: Should I go with RAID-0 for maximum speed?[/b]
A: No, RAID-0 doesn't really speed up your system significantly and is far more risky to your data. RAID 5 and 1 are really more about protecting uptime, and are not a backup solution - it will not replace an external hard drive/archive DVDs/etc.[/quote]]
This is getting pathetic.
RAID 0 can provide a great speed improvement, and RAID 1 is nice if you don't want to go through the pain of backing up your shit.
[quote][b]Q: Should I go with Solid State Drives (SSD) for maximum speed?[/b]
A: Maybe, if you have money to burn and want to put some work into it. The "inexpensive" versions of SSD use low-grade flash memory that can actually hurt performance, so avoid them. While you can get some impressive results from quality SSDs (Intel and OCZ Vertex lines), there can be still some fairly large problems with them. The most common is severely reduced performance with frequent small writes to the disk (something pretty common on a boot/OS drive). If you want one, make sure you read up on proper use/maintenance, otherwise you'll end up with a very expensive platter-drive equivalent.[/quote]
Newer SSDs don't have the decreased performance issue, and while I wouldn't get one myself, they're nice for high-end systems. Even if you gget one of the ones that suffers from performance degradation, it'll always be faster than a single spinner.
[quote][b]Recommended Vendor List[/b]
[b]In the U.S.:[/b]
NewEgg
ZipZoomFly
[b]In Canada:[/b]
NCIX
NewEgg (.ca)
[b]In Europe:[/b]
SCAN Computers
Feel free to post about other reputable vendors in your region. [/quote]
I don't disagree with any of this.
[quote][b]Quick Picks as of 7/23/09[/b]
Here are a list of parts that are generally agreed-upon to be good, solid choices for anyone assembling a new machine.
:frogsiren:[b]THIS IS NOT A COMPLETE LIST, NOR IS IT MEANT TO BE.[/b]:frogsiren:
Everyone's needs in a computer are different. This part should be a starting point in your research, not a definitive guide to what you should get.
[b]Intel CPU[/b]
* Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 or the slightly faster E8500 great gaming/general desktop chips
* Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400[/quote]
Fuck the E8500 to hell. It's not worth it. In my opinion, one of the best price/performance Intel CPUs is the E7400 - it's just an E8500 with a lower multiplier.
Also, fuck the Q9400. The Q9550 is significantly better yet only a tiny bit more expensive. It also has double the cache.
[quote][b]AMD CPU[/b]
* Athlon X2 7850 A good budget chip
* Phenom II X3 720 probably the current best choice for a typical computer
* Phenom II X4 940 A good Core 2 Quad alternative[/quote]
7850 is OK, but it's not really that worth it over the 7750.
The 720 is a great CPU.
Don't discount the 955 - that thing's an i7 920 fighter.
[quote][b]Intel Motherboard[/b]
* Gigabyte EP45-UD3L
* Asus P5Q
* Intel P43[/quote]
No issues here, except the P43 chipset is kinda sucky. The P45 is significantly better.
Also, where are the i7 mobos? I'd add the ASUS P6T series and Gigabyte EX58 series. The Rampage II Extreme is also a nice high-end board.
[quote][b]AMD Motherboard[/b]
* Asus M3A78 Plus
* GIGABYTE GA-MA770-UD3
* GIGABYTE GA-MA790X-UD4P[/quote]
No real comment.
[quote][b]Memory[/b]
* 4 Gigs of DDR2 800[/quote]
Or DDR3 1600 CAS 8 for an i7 system.
Or DDR2 1066 if you want to spend $3 more over DDR2 800.
[quote][b]Graphics[/b]
* Radeon 4850 Screen resolutions of 1600x1050 and below
* Radeon 4870 1GB Screen resolutions of 1600*1050 and higher
* Radeon 4890- a powerhouse for 1900x1200
* GeForce GTX260 216 Screen resolutions of 1600*1050 and higher, similar performance to the 4870 1G
* GeForce GTX275[/quote]
What?
I'd buy solely by budget, preference being
GTX 275 SLI > 4870 X2 > GTX 280 > 4770 Crossfire > GTX 275 > 4870 1GB > 4870 512MB > 4850 > 4670
[quote][b]Hard Drive[/b]
* Western Digital Caviar 640GB (Dual Platter)
* Seagate Barracude 500GB 7000.12 (Single Platter)[/quote]
Hard drives are more than just the number of platters. I'd just get a Seagate or Western Digital that fits my capacity and speed needs.
[quote][b]Optical[/b]
* DVD Burners
* Blu-ray DVD-ROMs[/quote]
Blu-ray is a fucking joke unless you have a collection of movies lying around. I see no use for Blu-ray outside of an HTPC.
[quote][b]Case[/b]
* Antec P183 (Extremely quiet, a great case if noise is an issue)
* Antec Nine Hundred
* Lian-Li PC-7B
* CoolerMaster Centurion 5
* CoolerMaster Centurion 534
* CoolerMaster 690C
* CoolerMaster HAF 932[/quote]
Where's the Antec Three Hundred? Cases are quite a bit personal preference as well.
[quote][b]Power Supplies[/b]
* Corsair 450W
* Corsair 520W
* PC Power and Cooling 420W
* PC Power and Cooling 500W
* SeaSonic 500W
* CoolerMaster 500W[/quote]
Yeah, nothing wrong with these specific PSUs, but as long as it comes from a good vendor and provides the amperage you want, I'd go for it. OCZ has some nice PSUs in the $50-$100 range.
[quote][b]Aftermarket Cooling[/b]
CPU:
* Xigmatek S1283 make sure to purchase the Backplate as well if you have an Intel chipset
* Xigmatek Dark Knight (Come with backplate)
* Sunbeam Core Contact
* Scythe Ninja Mini for small clearance cases
VGA:
* Arctic Cooling Accelero S1[/quote]
Arctic Cooling F7P is nice for CPUs, as well as the Prolimatech Megahalems and Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme.
VGA cooling is normally not needed unless you're doing major overclocking or need a silent cooling solution.
[quote][b]LCDs[/b]
In general, most LCDs will be fine for the average user, and price is the biggest driver.[/quote]
Don't forget resolution and pixel density. I'd rather have a 24" 1920x1200 than a 28" of the same resolution.
[quote][b]The current Intel Price/Performance "Sweet Spot":[/b]
Gigabyte EP45-UD3L
Core 2 Duo E8400
Corsair XMS 2x2GB DDR2-800 Kit
Radeon HD4870 1GB[/quote]
It all really depends. If you don't mind overclocking, an E7400 can yield immense returns.
[quote]OR
[b]The current AMD Price/Performance "Sweet Spot":[/b]
GIGABYTE GA-MA770-UD3
Phenom II X3 720
Corsair XMS 2x2GB DDR2-800 Kit
Radeon HD4870 1GB[/quote]
And what about a Phenom II 955 system for the user who wants a quad? What about a 550-based system for cheapness?
[quote]Changes, corrections, additions, and comments are welcome as always.[/QUOTE]
Commented.
Also, you seem pretty pretentious for someone who joined this month. Are you an alt of somebody?
Tiger Direct is also a good computer supplier/store for Canada, though I don't know if its only in my area or not.
If not, check the site out or something. [url]www.tigerdirect.ca[/url]
Good guide so far.
[QUOTE=PrismatexV5;16214049]Don't rag on buying a high-end system. They can have lots of upgradability in them.
It all depends on budget. 6 months ago, dual core all the way. Right now, new stuff is coming down the pipe very soon that takes advantage of 3/4 cores. This year's holiday games will have more quad-core support than ever.
A 7750 isn't extreme budget at all. The high-end is also getting crept up upon by AMD with the Phenom IIs, especially the 955.
Unless, of course, you find a good motherboard that supports only DDR3. I'm pretty indifferent myself.
Don't forget GTX 275 SLI, which outperforms a 295. 4870 1GB Crossfire, which costs $300, comes pretty damn close to a 4870 X2, which costs around $360.
I don't disagree with anything here.
And Antec, Cooler Master, and OCZ, among others.
You also might want a board with better overclocking features, extra cooling, or other tidbits, so don't always cheap out.
By mild, you mean OCing on stock voltages, right?
Because I'm not going to overvolt shit without a nice aftermarket cooler.
I don't totally disagree with this, but I'd suggest RAID 0 over a single fast hard drive.
]
This is getting pathetic.
RAID 0 can provide a great speed improvement, and RAID 1 is nice if you don't want to go through the pain of backing up your shit.
Newer SSDs don't have the decreased performance issue, and while I wouldn't get one myself, they're nice for high-end systems. Even if you gget one of the ones that suffers from performance degradation, it'll always be faster than a single spinner.
I don't disagree with any of this.
Fuck the E8500 to hell. It's not worth it. In my opinion, one of the best price/performance Intel CPUs is the E7400 - it's just an E8500 with a lower multiplier.
Also, fuck the Q9400. The Q9550 is significantly better yet only a tiny bit more expensive. It also has double the cache.
7850 is OK, but it's not really that worth it over the 7750.
The 720 is a great CPU.
Don't discount the 955 - that thing's an i7 920 fighter.
No issues here, except the P43 chipset is kinda sucky. The P45 is significantly better.
Also, where are the i7 mobos? I'd add the ASUS P6T series and Gigabyte EX58 series. The Rampage II Extreme is also a nice high-end board.
No real comment.
Or DDR3 1600 CAS 8 for an i7 system.
Or DDR2 1066 if you want to spend $3 more over DDR2 800.
What?
I'd buy solely by budget, preference being
GTX 275 SLI > 4870 X2 > GTX 280 > 4770 Crossfire > GTX 275 > 4870 1GB > 4870 512MB > 4850 > 4670
Hard drives are more than just the number of platters. I'd just get a Seagate or Western Digital that fits my capacity and speed needs.
Blu-ray is a fucking joke unless you have a collection of movies lying around. I see no use for Blu-ray outside of an HTPC.
Where's the Antec Three Hundred? Cases are quite a bit personal preference as well.
Yeah, nothing wrong with these specific PSUs, but as long as it comes from a good vendor and provides the amperage you want, I'd go for it. OCZ has some nice PSUs in the $50-$100 range.
Arctic Cooling F7P is nice for CPUs, as well as the Prolimatech Megahalems and Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme.
VGA cooling is normally not needed unless you're doing major overclocking or need a silent cooling solution.
Don't forget resolution and pixel density. I'd rather have a 24" 1920x1200 than a 28" of the same resolution.
It all really depends. If you don't mind overclocking, an E7400 can yield immense returns.
And what about a Phenom II 955 system for the user who wants a quad? What about a 550-based system for cheapness?
Commented.
Also, you seem pretty pretentious for someone who joined this month. Are you an alt of somebody?[/QUOTE]
lurked since 07
[editline]06:20AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=JohnEdwards;16214041]he was from /v/[/QUOTE]
/v/ and /g/ = only good boards on 4chan
Ooh, there's also a tigerdirect.com
[QUOTE=dgjsk3;16214087]
/g/ = only good board on 4chan[/QUOTE]
it is the free mans YOSPOS: GNU, bitch, get out the way
Could you add some Australian shops to the list?
My favorites include:
[url]http://www.pccasegear.com.au/[/url]
[url]http://www.scorptec.com.au[/url]
[url]http://www.mwave.com.au[/url]
Also [url=http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/?action=faq&name=Australian%20PC%20Shops%20Guide%20v3.0%20-%20Complete%20List&tags=Australian_PC_Shops,AusPC_Info,AusPC_Online,AusPC_ACT,AusPC_NSW,AusPC_NT,AusPC_Qld,AusPC_SA,AusPC_Tas,AusPC_Vic,AusPC_WA]this list[/url] may be useful to Australians.
Where's the Antec 300? It's a great case.
Also the AMD 550 is a great dual core and about the Gigabyte 770... don't get it confused with the 770T because that uses DDR3 only.
Tiger direct ships to the US.
Add in the coolermaster Elite series to cases.
Portuguese store: [url]http://www.f13pc.pt[/url]
no one lives in portugal so it doesn't need to be added
The guy who posted that store does.
cool
I went on newegg to price check that "sweet spot" described in the OP, but the video card turned up two diferent results, which one is better?
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150395[/url]
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150394[/url]
i know it's pretty obvious but I wanna be sure
[QUOTE=SilverHammer;16225392]I went on newegg to price check that "sweet spot" described in the OP, but the video card turned up two diferent results, which one is better?
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150395[/url]
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150394[/url]
i know it's pretty obvious but I wanna be sure[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150395[/url] = slightly overclocked, nothing you can't do yourself
i'd go with the other one
I'd say for the casual gamer/overclocker to get the AMD Althon II X2 250 - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103681[/url] It can over clock to 3.6GHz with the stock heatsink/fan and have okay temps.
Soundcards
Most of the time they are not needed but if you have a good speaker setup (2.1 or 5.1 system) then the difference is night and day.
(best bet) Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium: [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102024[/url]
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional: [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102019[/url]
[QUOTE=dgjsk3;16225518][url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150395[/url] = slightly overclocked, nothing you can't do yourself
i'd go with the other one[/QUOTE]
It came out to about 394.00 just in case you wanted to know
[editline]03:00PM[/editline]
US
[QUOTE=SilverHammer;16226741]It came out to about 394.00 just in case you wanted to know
[editline]03:00PM[/editline]
US[/QUOTE]
for the intel build or the amd one?
Amd
YES /G/'S GUIDE PREVAILS ONCE AGAIN
I love how the place is taking advice from /g/
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