Jihadi arrests in EU nearly double in 2 years: Europol
103 replies, posted
[quote]The number of people arrested in Europe on suspicion of jihadi activities has almost doubled in the last two years. Overall, there were 142 "failed, foiled or completed terrorist attacks" in 2016.
Europol, Europe's top law-enforcement organization, said in its annual EU Terrorism Situation and Trend Report that 718 suspects were arrested on offenses relating to jihadi terror in 2016, up from 395 in 2014.
The number of attacks dropped from 17 in 2014 to 13 last year, six of which were linked to the so-called "Islamic State" (IS) group.
The report noted that women and children, as well as young adults, were playing an increasingly important operational role.
One in four of those arrested in Britain in 2016 were women, an 18 percent increase from 2015, Europol said.
"Female militant jihadists in the West perceive fewer obstacles to playing an operative role in a terrorist attack than men, and successful or prevented attacks carried out by women in Western countries may act as an inspiration to others," the report said.
In total 1,002 arrests were made in 2016 relating to terror activities. France had the highest number of arrest at 456, with almost a third of those detained 25 years or younger, Europol said.
There were 142 "failed, foiled or completed terrorist attacks" including those by jihadis, more than half of them in the UK.[/quote]
[url]http://www.dw.com/en/jihadi-arrests-in-eu-nearly-double-in-2-years-europol/a-39271699[/url]
What I take from this is that there's clearly work being done to improve prevention of terrorist attacks.
Well, obviously. With the amount of anti-islamic racist rhetoric people like Trump and Marine LP keep spewing it's no fucking wonder terrorist recruitment numbers have gone up.
I know you think this is a huge vindication of "Look! them moo slimes are gettin violent" when in actuality it's the radical conservative political movement that keeps alienating different groups that's almost definitely the main cause for this.
[editline]16th June 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Im Crimson;52366021]What I take from this is that there's clearly work being done to improve prevention of terrorist attacks.[/QUOTE]
And this
[QUOTE=EcksDee;52366027]Well, obviously. With the amount of anti-islamic racist rhetoric people like Trump and Marine LP keep spewing it's no fucking wonder terrorist recruitment numbers have gone up.
I know you think this is a huge vindication of "Look! them moo slimes are gettin violent" when in actuality it's the radical conservative political movement that keeps alienating different groups that's almost definitely the main cause for this.
[editline]16th June 2017[/editline]
And this[/QUOTE]
Ooooor it's actually because more have arrived in Europe.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;52366027]Well, obviously. With the amount of anti-islamic racist rhetoric people like Trump and Marine LP keep spewing it's no fucking wonder terrorist recruitment numbers have gone up.
I know you think this is a huge vindication of "Look! them moo slimes are gettin violent" when in actuality it's the radical conservative political movement that keeps alienating different groups that's almost definitely the main cause for this.
[/QUOTE]
I was wondering how is someone going to blame the right for the terrorists attacks and not the people actually doing them. Now I know, thanks.
[QUOTE=Firewarrior;52366052]Ooooor it's actually because more have arrived in Europe.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure the truth lies somewhere in between.
13 attacks occured out of 142 attempts? That's 90% efficiency for the police, pretty impressive considering how hard it can be to uncover a plot.
That being said, even if all those attempts weren't stopped, and they all resulted in 100 deaths (a very generous estimate), that would be 14,200 terror-related deaths.
For comparison, reducing traffic related deaths in the EU by 20% would save more people than preventing all those attacks. [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate#List]The UK traffic death rate is 70% lower than EU average,[/url] so it's not a far-fetched goal to pursue.
[url=http://www.google.be/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwiO0qbE78HUAhUGY1AKHbPaDvcQFggxMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fec.europa.eu%2Feurostat%2Fdocuments%2F2995521%2F7149996%2F3-03022016-BP-EN.pdf%2F0bbc3389-8c0d-44a0-9b0c-2a0bff49f466&usg=AFQjCNG7iYAKCAeFgmRZRmB46hWIfXrn9Q]Cancer kills about 1.3 million persons per year in the EU,[/url] reducing that number by as much as 1%, be it through prevention, identifying risk factors, developping cures, would save more people than preventing any and all terrorist attacks.
When current security measures are sufficient to prevent 90% of those attacks, and the total yearly death toll in Europe sits around the 100 people mark, to argue for more liberty-restricting measures in the name of "saving lives" either shows a disturbing lack of prioritizing skills, or a desire to use terrorism as justification for one's xenophobic and authoritarian agenda. And as we've seen, even the "amount of victims is so low [I]because[/I] we enacted authoritarian measures" argument doesn't stand, even with the most generous of estimates.
Despite the incredible discrepancy in actual risks, people are more scared of being killed by an AK-wielding bearded cunt than by an asshole driving his BMW at 200km/h or by a vicious disease that slowly kills you from the inside, and politicians, "journalists" and other activists want to exploit that irrational fear to further their own agenda. Don't let them.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;52366053]I was wondering how is someone going to blame the right for the terrorists attacks and not the people actually doing them. Now I know, thanks.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck is wrong with you. Every single terrorist who attacks innocent people is a cowardly piece of shit who deserves nothing but to be locked up and kept away from the general population. Where did I say "oh poor Terry Orist, just a good peaceful muslim."
What I said, if you'd bothered to utilize more than two braincells reading the post, is that yes, the amount of jihadi activity is going up, but the way people keep posting this as proof that muslims are bad and immigrants are bad is entirely missing the REASON why this is happening.
I know I'm borderline flaming but HOLY SHIT you gotta at least try to comprehend a post.
[QUOTE=_Axel;52366086]13 attacks occured out of 142 attempts? That's 90% efficiency for the police, pretty impressive considering how hard it can be to uncover a plot.
That being said, even if all those attempts weren't stopped, and they all resulted in 100 deaths (a very generous estimate), that would be 14,200 terror-related deaths.
For comparison, reducing traffic related deaths in the EU by 20% would save more people than preventing all those attacks. [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate#List"]The UK traffic death rate is 70% lower than EU average,[/URL] so it's not a far-fetched goal to pursue.
[URL="http://www.google.be/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwiO0qbE78HUAhUGY1AKHbPaDvcQFggxMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fec.europa.eu%2Feurostat%2Fdocuments%2F2995521%2F7149996%2F3-03022016-BP-EN.pdf%2F0bbc3389-8c0d-44a0-9b0c-2a0bff49f466&usg=AFQjCNG7iYAKCAeFgmRZRmB46hWIfXrn9Q"]Cancer kills about 1.3 million persons per year in the EU,[/URL] reducing that number by as much as 1%, be it through prevention, identifying risk factors, developping cures, would save more people than preventing any and all terrorist attacks.
When current security measures are sufficient to prevent 90% of those attacks, and the total yearly death toll in Europe sits around the 100 people mark, to argue for more liberty-restricting measures in the name of "saving lives" either shows a disturbing lack of prioritizing skills, or a desire to use terrorism as justification for one's xenophobic and authoritarian agenda. And as we've seen, even the "amount of victims is so low [I]because[/I] we enacted authoritarian measures" argument doesn't stand, even with the most generous of estimates.
Despite the incredible discrepancy in actual risks, people are more scared of being killed by an AK-wielding bearded cunt than by an asshole driving his BMW at 200km/h or by a vicious disease that slowly kills you from the inside, and politicians, "journalists" and other activists want to exploit that irrational fear to further their own agenda. Don't let them.[/QUOTE]
Jesus Christ the mental gymnastics in this thread. So far as a response to "Jihadi arrests in EU nearly double in 2 years, There were 142 failed, foiled or completed terrorist attacks" we've got "It's the right's fault" and "yeah but cancer is worse". I'm amazed.
[editline]16th June 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=EcksDee;52366090]What the fuck is wrong with you. Every single terrorist who attacks innocent people is a cowardly piece of shit who deserves nothing but to be locked up and kept away from the general population. Where did I say "oh poor Terry Orist, just a good peaceful muslim."
What I said, if you'd bothered to utilize more than two braincells reading the post, is that yes, the amount of jihadi activity is going up, but the way people keep posting this as proof that muslims are bad and immigrants are bad is entirely missing the REASON why this is happening.
I know I'm borderline flaming but HOLY SHIT you gotta at least try to comprehend a post.[/QUOTE]
Did you or did you not say that the right is the leading reason for muslims becoming terrorists? Simple question.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;52366105]Jesus Christ the mental gymnastics in this thread. So far as a response to "Jihadi arrests in EU nearly double in 2 years, There were 142 failed, foiled or completed terrorist attacks" we've got "It's the right's fault" and "yeah but cancer is worse". I'm amazed.[/QUOTE]
I'm amazed that people like you don't give a single shit about more pressing and important issues, and are okay with whittling our rights away to stop some blown out of proportion boogeyman.
If caring about actually commonplace and preventable causes of death more than the anecdotal terrorist attack is mental gymnastics, but pushing for more and more drastic restrictions to get diminishing returns in terms of terrorism prevention isn't, then what does that word mean exactly?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;52366053]I was wondering how is someone going to blame the right for the terrorists attacks and not the people actually doing them. Now I know, thanks.[/QUOTE]
Cause and effect. ISIS themselves have said try to make native populations distrust muslims as a means of garnering support.
By distrusting muslims you're literally playing into their hands. The guy who detonates the bomb is guilty, as is the preacher/creep who radicalised him, as are the bigots who marginalised him.
Like, why do you care about preventing terrorist attacks if not to prevent innocent people from getting killed?
If that's your main motivation, why is it not consistent across the board?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;52366105]
Did you or did you not say that the right is the leading reason for muslims becoming terrorists? Simple question.[/QUOTE]
No, I said the main reason for the INCREASE in recruitment numbers is anti islamic rhetoric, which is an entirely uncontroversial statement as there's already been articles on how ISIS uses Trump's statements to recruit more.
We could juts let them keep blowing us up till muslims or who ever is doing it may get more sympathetic for us and mayby stop doing it.
I mean why not. Thats your term of logic you guys are posting.
[QUOTE=Shakma;52366141]We could juts let them keep blowing us up till muslims or who ever is doing it may get more sympathetic for us and mayby stop doing it.
I mean why not.[/QUOTE]
Except we're not?
Did you miss the part where 90% of attempts were stopped by the police?
[QUOTE=Shakma;52366141]We could juts let them keep blowing us up till muslims or who ever is doing it may get more sympathetic for us and mayby stop doing it.
I mean why not.[/QUOTE]
You miss the part where the majority of these crimes were stopped?
Just so that you should know no means of surveillance will stop everything, especially if the time between planning and attack isn't very long. How do you completely prevent a decentralized form of attack carried out by somebody who just doesn't give a shit, and is often seriously mentally disturbed, without going into Big Brother territory? It's not without reason that groups like ISIS make calls for the believers to kill people in their name and to make their enemies bleed, they want revenge for being bombed into dust and winding up on the verge of defeat. And even if you wipe out the job lot, sooner or later another group is going to take their place unless they put it to a full stop on their side.
[QUOTE=_Axel;52366115]I'm amazed that people like you don't give a single shit about more pressing and important issues,[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=_Axel;52366115]If caring about actually commonplace and preventable causes of death more than the anecdotal terrorist attack is mental gymnastics, but pushing for more and more drastic restrictions to get diminishing returns in terms of terrorism prevention isn't, then what does that word mean exactly?[/QUOTE]
Dude, just because much more people die by cancer or heart disease or traffic accidents, that doesn't mean we should stop chasing serial killers and murderers. Or terrorists.
You talk as if diseases and accidents are on equal grounds to intended mass murder. That's where your mental gymnastics show. The problem is intent. Terrorism happens on purpose, diseases and accidents do not. Your argument would work with say gun rights but I doubt you are an avid gun availability supporter.
[QUOTE=_Axel;52366115]and are okay with whittling our rights away [/QUOTE]
No I'm not.
[QUOTE=_Axel;52366115]to stop some blown out of proportion boogeyman.[/QUOTE]
Oh come on. 325 people since 2015 were not killed by a boogeyman.
[editline]16th June 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=EcksDee;52366132]No, I said the main reason for the INCREASE in recruitment numbers is anti islamic rhetoric, which is an entirely uncontroversial statement as there's already been articles on how ISIS uses Trump's statements to recruit more.[/QUOTE]
Okay so your first response to the news that terrorist activity doubled in the past 2 years is "it's the right's fault" then? Am I still misrepresenting what you did there?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;52366178]Oh come on. 325 people since 2015 were not killed by a boogeyman.[/QUOTE]
You're right, they weren't killed by a boogeyman. They were killed by radical Islamic terrorists who were recruited into the movement by rhetoric that takes advantage of rising Islamophobia in the West.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;52366120]Cause and effect. ISIS themselves have said try to make native populations distrust muslims as a means of garnering support.
By distrusting muslims you're literally playing into their hands. The buy who detonates the bomb is guilty, as is the preacher/creep who radicalised him, as are the bigots who marginalised him.[/QUOTE]
Look at the difference between your post and the one I replied earlier. You've put the responsibility on 3 parties. The perpetrator, the person who radicalized him and people who aliened and marginalized them. Your post is reasonable. The other guy forgot about the first two.
[editline]16th June 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;52366196]You're right, they weren't killed by a boogeyman. They were killed by radical Islamic terrorists who were recruited into the movement by rhetoric that takes advantage of rising Islamophobia in the West.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for telling me this, I had no idea, and thanks for moving the goalpost so far that I can't see it anymore.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;52366178]Dude, just because much more people die by cancer or heart disease or traffic accidents, that doesn't mean we should stop chasing serial killers and murderers. Or terrorists.[/QUOTE]
Have I said that?
[QUOTE]You talk as if diseases and accidents are on equal grounds to intended mass murder. That's where your mental gymnastics show. The problem is intent. Terrorism happens on purpose, diseases and accidents do not. Your argument would work with say gun rights but I doubt you are an avid gun availability supporter.[/QUOTE]
And what does intent change about what we should do about it? Should we care more about the deaths of those who were killed intentionally than about those who were victims of manslaughter or other preventable causes?
Intent would be relevant if we were talking about judging the perpetrators. It's irrelevant if what we're talking about is preventing the death of innocents.
[QUOTE]No I'm not.[/QUOTE]
Then what do you disagree with in my statement?
[QUOTE]Oh come on. 325 people since 2015 were not killed by a boogeyman.[/QUOTE]
The boogeyman part is saying they're a [I]major[/I] threat to the safety of Europeans. If something that causes a few hundred deaths per year in the EU is a major threat, then what is something that causes tens of thousands? A million? Hyper-major threats?
Those who have an agenda to push present the terrorism threat as bigger than it really is, because it's a formidable rhetorical tool to use.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;52366201]Thanks for telling me this, I had no idea, and thanks for moving the goalpost so far that I can't see it anymore.[/QUOTE]
how is that moving the goalposts
you made a point that was utterly redundant by purposefully taking a bankrupt reading of his post
[QUOTE=Firewarrior;52366052]Ooooor it's actually because more have arrived in Europe.[/QUOTE]
if this is the case, why is islamic terrorism a relatively modern occurrence, when immigration from these countries has been a constant factor for the last 40-50 years
or does it just hit a critical step at 1.5 million or so, and then terrorism just starts to happen for some reason
or is your point total anti-refugee bollocks
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;52366201]Look at the difference between your post and the one I replied earlier. You've put the responsibility on 3 parties. The perpetrator, the person who radicalized him and people who aliened and marginalized them. Your post is reasonable. The other guy forgot about the first two.
[editline]16th June 2017[/editline]
Thanks for telling me this, I had no idea, and thanks for moving the goalpost so far that I can't see it anymore.[/QUOTE]
The goalposts are fixed. You're the one running all over the field. What exactly are you trying to say?
[QUOTE=EcksDee;52366027]Well, obviously. With the amount of anti-islamic racist rhetoric people like Trump and Marine LP keep spewing it's no fucking wonder terrorist recruitment numbers have gone up.
I know you think this is a huge vindication of "Look! them moo slimes are gettin violent" when in actuality it's the radical conservative political movement that keeps alienating different groups that's almost definitely the main cause for this.
[editline]16th June 2017[/editline]
And this[/QUOTE]
Anti-Muslim rhetoric has existed for years now, but only recently have large numbers of Muslim refugees moved to europe.
???
Of course anti-Muslim thoughts have an impact but I think you're exaggerating how much of an effect it has.
[editline]a[/editline]
Looking at some of the suspects of previous terror attacks (not all of course), a majority have been either criminals who were radicalized by people returning/coming from Syria as fighters, or themselves were people who fought in Syria.
[QUOTE=Araknid;52366283]Anti-Muslim rhetoric has existed for years now, but only recently have large numbers of Muslim refugees moved to europe.
???
Of course anti-Muslim thoughts have an impact but I think you're exaggerating how much of an effect it has.[/QUOTE]
But the majority of terrorist attacks were committed by nationals, not refugees?
And those "large numbers" are negligible compared to the Muslim population that was already there.
[QUOTE=_Axel;52366299]But the majority of terrorist attacks were committed by nationals, not refugees?
And those "large numbers" are negligible compared to the Muslim population that was already there.[/QUOTE]
As I said, a majority have been criminals who were radicalized by terrorists pretending to be refugees or coming back from fighting overseas, or some radicalized overseas. Not all of them of course but a lot of them.
[QUOTE=Araknid;52366324]As I said, a majority have been criminals who were radicalized by terrorists pretending to be refugees, or some radicalized overseas.[/QUOTE]
You make a valid point about people being radicalised abroad and hopefully intelligence services will build that into their metrics of where to direct resources.
"majority" is a quantifier. Got any stats?
Anjem Choudary one of the major radicalises in London linked to many attempted terror attacks (like the lee rigby killer) and convicted ISIS sympathiser was born in the UK.
You can't just blame everything on refugee bogymen.
Also anti-muslim sentiment has increased. In the US the number of anti muslim groups have tripled since 2015. In 2014 London police figures showed hate crime against muslims increased by 65% in 1 year, in 2015 verbal and physical harassment of muslims increased by 326% country wide. After the brexit vote there was another spike in reported (the other 2 stats are from police figures recorded, ie legit) hate crime.
Anti muslim sentiment has been on the rise since 9/11 and people who were born in our countries (UK and US in these examples) are alienated and marginalised by bigots. Marginalised people will hold resentments and will perhaps lack the strong British identity which others might hold, increasing vulnerability to radicalisation.
Bigots, xenophobes, racists and islamophobes are a big part of the problem. And a part we can do something about. Stop spreading hate. Stop enabling discrimination. Stop apologising for bigots.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;52366027]Well, obviously. With the amount of anti-islamic racist rhetoric people like Trump and Marine LP keep spewing it's no fucking wonder terrorist recruitment numbers have gone up.
I know you think this is a huge vindication of "Look! them moo slimes are gettin violent" when in actuality it's the radical conservative political movement that keeps alienating different groups that's almost definitely the main cause for this.[/QUOTE]
Or anti-islamic feelings are on the up because people are sick of watching their friends and family getting blown up in the streets.
[QUOTE=dunkace;52366354]Or anti-islamic feelings are on the up because people are sick of watching their friends and family getting blown up in the streets.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/edl-sikh-manchester-homeless-abuse-volunteers-feeding-english-defence-league-racist-a7787241.html"]Way to take it out on some random person who's entirely unrelated to the terror perp.[/URL]
I hope your post is just badly worded and that's not actually what you mean. You sound like an apologist.
[QUOTE=Shakma;52366141]We could juts let them keep blowing us up till muslims or who ever is doing it may get more sympathetic for us and mayby stop doing it.
I mean why not. Thats your term of logic you guys are posting.[/QUOTE]
I mean if you want to look at the problem as a 1 dimensional simple thing that's your decision, but just because that's how you cope with a complex issue doesn't mean everyone else has the wrong idea by trying to obtain more than a surface-level understanding of it.
[editline]16th June 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=dunkace;52366354]Or anti-islamic feelings are on the up because people are sick of watching their friends and family getting blown up in the streets.[/QUOTE]
Take your own argument, and then flip the perspective. Innocent Muslims are taking the heat for these terrible deeds, and that is enabling terrorist groups to target mentally unstable persons in these populations and weaponize them.
I mean, I think we can both agree that hating someone because of an intrinsic part of their identity is only something really cowardly and stupid people do, right?
[editline]16th June 2017[/editline]
Also don't forget that the people that are the MOST tired of getting blown up all the fucking time are, guess who, Muslims. Refugees aren't exactly some complex plot to ship terrorists over, they're people running away from getting murdered for blasphemy.
[QUOTE=dunkace;52366354]Or anti-islamic feelings are on the up because people are sick of watching their friends and family getting blown up in the streets.[/QUOTE]
i imagine anti-western feelings are where they're at because people are sick of watching their friends and family getting blown up in the streets as well
and i'm pretty damned sure a lot more people in the middle east are getting blown up in the street than here
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