Israeli research institute: Fighters constitute 46% of published casualties in Gaza
13 replies, posted
[URL="http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/article/20704"]http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/article/20704[/URL]
[QUOTE]The findings to date
1. This document is the third in a series of publications of the Intelligence and
Terrorism Information Center (ITIC), as part of a project examining the names of
the Palestinians killed in Operation Protective Edge. The project’s goal is to ascertain
the identity of terrorist operatives and non-involved citizens, and to examine the ratio
between them. The number of names of those killed, examined by the Information
Center to date, is 450. The examinations carried out by the Information Center are
based on the lists issued by the Hamas-controlled Palestinian Health Ministry, despite
the reliability problems and deficiencies found in them. To these basic lists we have
added terrorist operatives who do not appear on them, both for technical
reasons and as a result of Hamas’s policy of concealment and deception.
2. Weighting the findings of the current examination and the findings of the two
previous examinations (detailed in the two previous documents) yields the following
results:
1 Further to the ITIC Information Bulletin from August 5, 2014: “Examination of the names of Palestinians
killed in Operation Protective Edge - Part Two”. This is the first part of a study with three appendices,
which will be completed within the next few days. The full study in Hebrew is available on the ITIC website. 2
E 147-14
A. 208 of those killed were terrorist operatives (66 + 71 + 71).
B. 240 of those killed were non-involved civilians (93 + 66 + 81).
C. The identity of 44 people who were killed is unknown at this stage (26 +
15 + 3). Therefore, it is not possible to determine whether they were terrorist
operatives or non-involved civilians.
D. Of the 448 dead who could be identified based on the three lists that were
examined, terrorist operatives constitute approximately 46% of the names.
Non-involved civilians constitute approximately 54% of the names. This ratio
may vary as the ITIC continues to examine the names of those killed.[/QUOTE]
The full study, which can be found [URL="http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/Data/articles/Art_20704/E_147_14_1079564715.pdf"]here[/URL] (pdf), analyzes the names of killed Palestinians in Gaza as published by the Palestinians themselves, and compares them to various other sources like lists of known Hamas fighters and Palestinian internet postings praising Hamas martyrs.
They also claim to have found several victims presented as children that were in fact adult fighters internally praised as martyrs.
Anyway, the full study is above if you want to read for yourself and make up your own mind.
It should be noted that this research institute is associated with the Israeli intelligence community, so obviously not impartial.
questionable source still an interesting read
it only analyzes 400 deaths, which is only 1/5 of the total.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;45746828]it only analyzes 400 deaths, which is only 1/5 of the total.[/QUOTE]
They only analyze [U]named[/U] casualties. The Palestinians have still not published the names of all the over 2000 people killed.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;45746828]it only analyzes 400 deaths, which is only 1/5 of the total.[/QUOTE]
Unless there is bias in the deaths chosen for the report, it does not make a difference; what's important to them for proving thier point is the ratio
What are they trying to prove with these numbers*? It doesn't particularly paint a rosy picture of the operation if they were killing civilians 54% of the time.
*Assuming that they are actually trying to prove something beyond the actual ratio
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;45746956]What are they trying to prove with these numbers? It doesn't particularly paint a rosy picture of the operation if they were killing civilians 54% of the time.[/QUOTE]
In an area as dense as gaza city with hamas launching rockets from residental areas and using human shields as much as they do 54% is actually a rather low collateral casualty rate considering the conditions.
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio]If Wikipedia is to believed, Israel actually has the one of the lowest civilian-casualty ratios since the Great War.[/url]
you kinda do forget that hamas can easily disenvow anybody that gets killed so a terrorist casualty suddenly becomes a civilian casualty
[QUOTE=Sableye;45748089]you kinda do forget that hamas can easily disenvow anybody that gets killed so a terrorist casualty suddenly becomes a civilian casualty[/QUOTE]
They are "martyrs" remember. Supposedly, the whole entire premise is honor and recognition following death. They don't hide their people killed.
Also ignoring the questionable source, it is important to examine the casualty ratio during the beginning of the conflict. Israel has a pattern of killing the majority of civilians during the start of any conflict, and then later try to balance it out near the end. They are just numbers to them, but still no where near as the source attempts to claim (basing my numbers off independent NGOs which state Israel has killed [URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10967279/UN-80-per-cent-of-Palestinians-killed-in-Israeli-offensive-are-civilians.html"]80% civilians[/URL] as opposed to the "Israeli terrorist center")
[QUOTE=Starpluck;45748125]They are "martyrs" remember. Supposedly, the whole entire premise is honor and recognition following death. They don't hide their people killed.
Also ignoring the questionable source, it is important to examine the casualty ratio during the beginning of the conflict. Israel has a pattern of killing the majority of civilians during the start of any conflict, and then later try to balance it out near the end. They are just numbers to them, but still no where near as the source attempts to claim (basing my numbers off independent NGOs which state Israel has killed [URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10967279/UN-80-per-cent-of-Palestinians-killed-in-Israeli-offensive-are-civilians.html"]80% civilians[/URL] as opposed to the "Israeli terrorist center")[/QUOTE]
"Of 160 deaths that had occurred by Sunday, 133 – 80 per cent – had been among Gaza's civilian population, OCHA said, including 35 children and 27 women. Only 26 were established to have belonged to "armed groups" while the status of another nine men was unverified."
You do realize that this is 80% out of only 160 deaths, which aren't even 10% of the total Gazan deaths thus far?
[editline]20th August 2014[/editline]
And the number of civilian deaths significantly dropped due to Israel's land entry into Gaza. It's much easier to focus on terrorists with infantry troops rather than artillery fire which occasionally miss, cause collateral damage, or sometimes even gets a wrong intelligence piece which mistakes civilians with terrorists.
This is the reason why "there is a pattern of killing the majority of civilians during the start of any conflict", because Israel rarely sends its infantry troops into enemy territory right at the start of a military operation or war (most armies usually act this way too, I'm pretty sure).
[QUOTE=Starpluck;45748125]They are "martyrs" remember. Supposedly, the whole entire premise is honor and recognition following death. They don't hide their people killed.[/QUOTE]
They actually do in times of war, to create the impression the IDF isn't killing a lot of their fighters. This has been reported in the previous Gaza war as well. From [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_War"]wikipedia[/URL]:
[QUOTE]Difficulties in ascertaining an accurate Palestinian casualty count have been attributed to a number of factors. It was reported that Hamas fighters had been ordered not to wear military uniforms during the fighting.[15][16] Israeli-Arab journalist Khaled Abu Toameh wrote in The Jerusalem Post that this practice led to the over-counting of civilian casualties and under-counting Hamas military casualties, as Palestinian casualties arrived at hospitals without weapons or any other signs revealing they were actually fighters.[17][/QUOTE]
This is consistent with reports from this conflict. For example, you may recall the report of the room where several shot bodies were found, where the reporter mentioned seeing combat gear that was stripped off bodies laying in the street.
Which is why, in that same conflict, the final numbers of civilian vs. combatant casualties (by both human rights organizations and Hamas officials) ended up being more consistent with Israel's initial claims than to the claims Hamas and human rights groups made during the conflict claiming the overwhelming majority of casualties were civilian. Just read that wikipedia link above.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;45748125]Also ignoring the questionable source, it is important to examine the casualty ratio during the beginning of the conflict. Israel has a pattern of killing the majority of civilians during the start of any conflict, and then later try to balance it out near the end. [/QUOTE]
I've never heard that claim before. Care to site any sources? I'm curious.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;45748125]They are "martyrs" remember. Supposedly, the whole entire premise is honor and recognition following death. They don't hide their people killed.[/QUOTE]If them not announcing their martyrs means that they have a better chance against Israel, they're as sure as hell going to take that opportunity.
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